Article

2007-09-24 Afghanistan

Do or die: Saving a soldier pierced by an RPG

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Posted by tu3031 2007-09-24 12:21|| || Front Page|| [11132 views ] Top

#1 In the end, Oh said, its better to be lucky than good.

Although it certainly helps to be both. What amazing people have volunteered to put themselves in harm's way over there!

Posted by trailing wife 2007-09-24 12:37|| 2007-09-24 12:37|| Front Page Top

#2 Freakin amazing.

Posted by Anon4021 2007-09-24 14:29|| 2007-09-24 14:29|| Front Page Top

#3 If there is any justice in the world, every single person involved in this should get a medal, from the medic, to the helicopter crew, to the doctor and the surgical team. What they did is definitely above and beyond the call of duty.

Posted by Rambler">Rambler 2007-09-24 14:30|| 2007-09-24 14:30|| Front Page Top

#4 What a story. I can't imagine what it was like in the OR. Rambler, from the story it does appear that most of the men/women involved whom are named are at a higher rank now than they were at the time. Don't know if it's related to their acts that day or just overall time/merit.

But you're right, each of them deserve a medal.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2007-09-24 15:45|| 2007-09-24 15:45|| Front Page Top

#5 Its all about force unity and integrity. Too bad the rest of America doesn't understand it, practice it or promote it.

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2007-09-24 16:39|| 2007-09-24 16:39|| Front Page Top

#6 Its all about force unity and integrity. Too bad the rest of America doesn't understand it, practice it or promote it.

Some form of civic/military service to the country should be mandatory. The options could be three years between high school and college, or, five years post college.

No exceptions! You don't serve, you don't vote.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-24 17:07|| 2007-09-24 17:07|| Front Page Top

#7 Socialist slavery to your favoured caused is just as immoral as socialist slavery to causes you don't favour.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2007-09-24 18:08|| 2007-09-24 18:08|| Front Page Top

#8 Socialist slavery to your favoured caused is just as immoral as socialist slavery to causes you don't favour.

Yawn. An amusing comment from someone living in a Socialist -soon to be Islamic- country. You know, I think I'll just pop over to the gun store and buy me that new Taurus small-frame .45 as an alternate carry-weapon. Toodles.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-24 18:18|| 2007-09-24 18:18|| Front Page Top

#9 Jeeze. Bright Pebbles, there still cause? In the UK? For whacking, or not whacking? Make up your mind, you have no mind, you lost it, it has gone, too late, so sorry, Good-Bye, England.

Posted by rhodesiafever 2007-09-24 18:31|| 2007-09-24 18:31|| Front Page Top

#10 And your nym is Natural Law?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-09-24 18:46|| 2007-09-24 18:46|| Front Page Top

#11 lol! Natural Law sounds like .762 long to me.

Cool. Load, sight and slot.

Posted by rhodesiafever 2007-09-24 19:08|| 2007-09-24 19:08|| Front Page Top

#12 And your nym is Natural Law?

That's right. There are three sets of laws: 1)Mans Law, 2)God's Law, and 3)Natural Law (or natures law).

Natural law is what kicks in when the first two fail. Natural law is what is going to assert itself when the Left in this country go too far, and I see the tipping point up ahead.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-24 19:23|| 2007-09-24 19:23|| Front Page Top

#13 Funny. I missed the place where it said involuntary servitude was part of Natural Law.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-09-24 19:28|| 2007-09-24 19:28|| Front Page Top

#14 Funny. I missed the place where it said involuntary servitude was part of Natural Law.

You missed it, because I never asserted it was. My conviction that there should be some type of compulsory National Service as a prelude to earning the right to vote, has nothing to do with my screen nym.

Your adolescent attempt to equate the two is pitiful.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-24 19:33|| 2007-09-24 19:33|| Front Page Top

#15 It right there in da Koran, NS, oops, forgot there aint no natural law in it.

Posted by rhodesiafever 2007-09-24 19:33|| 2007-09-24 19:33|| Front Page Top

#16 Some form of civic/military service to the country should be mandatory.

Doesn't sound voluntary to me.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-09-24 19:35|| 2007-09-24 19:35|| Front Page Top

#17 In a world that seems full of asshats, we have a many great folks too..

Jesus, the human spirit exemplified in this drama is worth fighting for!

Can you imagine being stuck in the hip/pelvis by an object as huge as the warhead of an RPG?

Damn, if that would have gone off on/in the Humvee no more soldiers, they woulda all died. Why that didn't go off when it hit the wind shield...it must have been unarmed or a dud.
.

Posted by Red Dawg">Red Dawg 2007-09-24 19:43|| 2007-09-24 19:43|| Front Page Top

#18 Natural Law
Slow down, less you get slotted like a mongravian Troll

"My conviction,....." and then you waste cyber- space with an explanation of your name. Don't waste time, I dont care what your name is.

"Your adolescent attempt to equate the two is pitiful".

All I can say is, Give up, go home, we don't have slanging matches on your level here, Old Chap.

Posted by rhodesiafever 2007-09-24 19:49|| 2007-09-24 19:49|| Front Page Top

#19 Doesn't sound voluntary to me.

Are you naturally this obtuse, or is this willful? At no time have I suggested it be on a voluntary basis. What is your point?

I suppose that a concession could be made on the voluntary versus mandatory issue. Here, try this: If I had my way, citizens in this country would have to earn the right to vote by doing some form of civic/military service. They could choose to do 3 years between high school and college, or 5 years after college. No service, no vote.

The purpose of the service would be to break the chain of Mindless Socialist Indoctrination™ that our school systems have become...along with a surprising number of large multinational corporations.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-24 19:53|| 2007-09-24 19:53|| Front Page Top

#20 All I can say is, Give up, go home, we don't have slanging matches on your level here, Old Chap.

I wasn't talking to you. Old Stick.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-24 19:56|| 2007-09-24 19:56|| Front Page Top

#21 So ... Natural Law proposes to impose national service, perhaps compulsory, perhaps in exchange for the right to vote.

Leaving aside issues like what one requires of mothers with infants, or invalids and such (for which suitable alternatives can no doubt be devised), the problem I have is with the premise that this be done to instill an ideology (or at least to break one).

I too dislike the chain of Mindless Socialist Indoctrination in our schools. But one day might well be a Soros-backed 'progressive' who gets to choose how such a program is run - and what it teaches. Then we could have a corps of dragooned "peoples' medics" and "child care monitors" singing songs of the glorious peoples' revolution and enforcing What's Good For Us. In exchange for the right to vote.

I think the politicization of the schools can rolled back without creating yet another mandated government program that's susceptible to political manipulation.

Posted by lotp 2007-09-24 20:08|| 2007-09-24 20:08|| Front Page Top

#22 JMNSHO, of course. YMMV etc etc

Posted by lotp 2007-09-24 20:08|| 2007-09-24 20:08|| Front Page Top

#23
Natural Law
Nope, no worries, you keep talking to yo ass.

(See what you done)? Brought me down to your level, damn.

Posted by rhodesiafever 2007-09-24 20:09|| 2007-09-24 20:09|| Front Page Top

#24 So ... Natural Law proposes to impose national service, perhaps compulsory, perhaps in exchange for the right to vote.

Robin, I recognize that it isn't perfect and it has its own inherent pitfalls. But this country is sliding head long into socialism, I've been watching it for over 35 years. I don't even recognize this country anymore.

The intent of the service would be not to instill an ideology, but to rekindle one that is dying. At the current rate of decline I don't see America, being the America I was born in, beyond another 10 to 15 years.

And of course, you're correct, there would have to be accommodations made for the groups you mention to do their service.

Another government program doesn't need to be created, a citizen wishing to have voting rights can choose to join the military and perform their service, or one of the existing public service organizations...like the park service or something.

--
Rhodesiafever, mate, sit back and open another tinny, you've lost the plot sport.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-24 20:30|| 2007-09-24 20:30|| Front Page Top

#25 Natural Law, I tend to agree with you that a honking large percent of our population would be a whole lot more mature if they served for a couple years.

I just don't know how to mandate that without side effect so serious they undercut the positives.

In situations like this I usually trust competition to bring balance and sanity, so long as the market are protected against gross manipulations. Unfortunately, that can take time. But eventually it works. Kids get starved for good stories and then along comes a C.S. Lewis or a Rowling and the trash on TV is forgotten. Unions - once a good and useful movement - become openly corrupt as well as inflexible and unreasonable in their demands (as they are in the very blue state I live in) and eventually some hard working young men arrive who're flexible and eager for the opportunity to earn their way with value for wages earned.

Unless, of course, the government heavily influences what gets printed. Or mandates hiring union workers only. etc. etc.

It's not that I'm not tempted to try to hurry the process of competition along. I'd rather we not descend into Euro or full up USSR government in order for people to come to their senses. It's just that I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get only the good outcomes and prevent the bad ones .....

Posted by lotp 2007-09-24 21:23|| 2007-09-24 21:23|| Front Page Top

#26
#25 Robin, a thoughtful response. I share your concerns and frustrations. What I do know is that doing nothing, or relying on hope, is a non starter.

Some monumental catastrophe is going to have to happen to turn things around, something so bad that is destroys the Lefts credibility so thoroughly that The Adults step up to the plate.

Assuming of course there are any adults left.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-24 21:43|| 2007-09-24 21:43|| Front Page Top

#27 Actually "Natural Law", you blew it with the definition of you nym.

Natural Law is hardly there when Divine Law "fails" - you have it the wrong way round.

Divine Law is what is necessary for man once he reaches the limits of Natural Law.

St. Augustine made this pretty clear quite a few centuries ago.

Hobbes added his bit by attempting to quantify it in terms of ethics, and added an ontological dimension to what was pretty much a teleological system. Fortunately Locke identified a lot of the errors by Hobbes, but adapted the corrections that wer solid and applicable.

The "Natural Law" which threads itself through our US system is firmly based on Locke's works. This is by way of Jefferson - Locke is where Jefferson cribbed his "life liberty and property", and "inalienable rights". The Constitution, thanks to Locke indirectly, delineates individual rights that exist antecedent to it, and are not limited only to those expressed in it - they derive from natural laws, and thus are superior to man-made constructs, such as governments.

When governments become destructive of those rights founded in natural law, the people are justified at removing said governments. Sound Familiar? Go re-read the Declaration of Independence in the light of John Locke, St Thomas Aquinas and Natural Law. Its even more striking and radical than you were taught in school.

As for Natural Law - give a good amount of time and read an overview of Aquinas' Summa Theologica, and the writings of Locke if you need further education.

In regards of applying it to US and English jurisprudence, Blackstone's commentaries (as in so many cases) it the touchstone you seek.

And never wave a red flag like that at a Philosophy major. Even if I did go back and get engineering and mathematics, I still remember that part of history of philosophy petty well after all these decades.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-09-24 22:30|| 2007-09-24 22:30|| Front Page Top

#28 Actually "Natural Law", you blew it with the definition of you nym.

Natural Law is hardly there when Divine Law "fails" - you have it the wrong way round.

I blew nothing, you're over analyzing and applying Philosophical BS not to mention your own perspective to something I see from a different angle. I don't care one whit about: St. Augustine, Hobbes, Locke or any other pinhead philosopher.

Simply put, when mans laws fail, and strict observance of Gods laws will result in me perishing, I will resort to good old law of survival...natural law, as I perceive it. Not some over thought and over wrought philosophical BS.

I may perish anyway, but I intend to take some of my antagonists with me.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-24 22:45|| 2007-09-24 22:45|| Front Page Top

#29 Where do mans' laws come from? Hmm? You pre-suppose them, and proposes to fight them.

Where should they come from? Hmm? Can we use reason to determine law and what is good and right? Or is it all randomness and whim?

Pretty fundamental questions to which true Natural Law provides an answer.

And you are grossly ignorant of the subject matter, especially regarding Divine Law, i.e. "God's Law".

St Thomas Aquinas, John Locke - "Pinhead Philosopher", what a laugh.

In other words you are an unthinking ignorant moron, who has no concern with anything other than his own voice.

Thanks for clarifying what you are.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-09-24 22:53|| 2007-09-24 22:53|| Front Page Top

#30 "I will resort to good old law of survival."

Ah, so in your view man is nothing more than an animal, and is to be treated as such. Whoever has the most force wins. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot - they loved guys like you - nice and morally pliable.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-09-24 22:55|| 2007-09-24 22:55|| Front Page Top

#31 The purpose of the service would be to break the chain of Mindless Socialist Indoctrination that our school systems have become...

By substituting it with mindless indoctrination into compulsory "service"?

Voluntary my ass. If a citizen doesn't "serve" they can't take part in other civic duties such as VOTING!!?? Thereby immediately creating an elite class and an under class.

Sounds kinda like North Korea to me, except we're substituting eating with voting.

Posted by Mike N. 2007-09-24 23:19|| 2007-09-24 23:19|| Front Page Top

#32 With your shield or On It is a fair enough motto for the duties of a citizen under Natural Law. Just as it is morally permissible to overthrow an unjust government who has strayed form natural law by passing laws that diverge from reality and imposing them, its morally required to defend your government if it is a just one in accordance with natural law.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-09-24 23:56|| 2007-09-24 23:56|| Front Page Top

23:58 3dc
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