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2007-09-02 Olde Tyme Religion
Turkish PM : There is no moderate Islam
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Posted by mhw 2007-09-02 10:25|| || Front Page|| [6 views ]  Top
 File under: Global Jihad 

#1 Therefore, the only good Moslem...
Posted by Gary and the Samoyeds">Gary and the Samoyeds  2007-09-02 10:42|| http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2007-09-02 10:42|| Front Page Top

#2 Another insult, another day. Seething at 11.
Posted by Phinater Thraviger 2007-09-02 11:07||   2007-09-02 11:07|| Front Page Top

#3 At least Erdogan gets it. Somebody should tell George Bush.
Posted by Excalibur 2007-09-02 11:59||   2007-09-02 11:59|| Front Page Top

#4 Shit and Fan?
Posted by rhodesiafever 2007-09-02 12:11||   2007-09-02 12:11|| Front Page Top

#5 I think "barely tolerable" and "intolerable" Islam come to mind, as well as "barbarian" and "civil". Finally, there is "the Islam that was allowed to continue" and "the Islam that was annihilated and is extinct."
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-09-02 13:10||   2007-09-02 13:10|| Front Page Top

#6 I agree there are no moderate muslims.The so called radicals are mainstream followers who carry out what the koran teaches them basically to hate anyone and everyone who is not islamist!!!!!
Posted by Paul 2007-09-02 13:25||   2007-09-02 13:25|| Front Page Top

#7 ‘These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”

Got it? The term "moderate is "offensive and an insult to our religion".

CAN IT BE ANY MORE CLEAR?

Does anyone still believe that there are moderate Muslims?

Does anyone still believe that Islam has any redeeming features?

Does anyone still believe that Islam can be allowed to exist in the West?

Does anyone still believe that Islam will survive the next 50 years?
Posted by Zenster 2007-09-02 13:46||   2007-09-02 13:46|| Front Page Top

#8 straight from the horse's mouth....
Posted by twobyfour 2007-09-02 13:54||   2007-09-02 13:54|| Front Page Top

#9 Yep, Zen, "moderate" muslims aren't moderate because of some inherent goodness. They just follow the profit's ruling about "all stratagems of war". The moment they would assess that their numbers are right for changing the strategy, the "moderate" muslims would cease to exist.
Posted by twobyfour 2007-09-02 14:30||   2007-09-02 14:30|| Front Page Top

#10 #5 I think "barely tolerable" and "intolerable" Islam come to mind, as well as "barbarian" and "civil". Finally, there is "the Islam that was allowed to continue" and "the Islam that was annihilated and is extinct."
Posted by: Anonymoose 2007-09-02 13:10

It's rapidly growing obvious to most of the sane people in the West that there are miniscule followers of a form of Islam that is "barely tolerable", while the vast majority belong to a form of Islam that needs to be "annihilated and is (now) extinct." The sooner we get on with the job, the sooner it will be over, with the minimum cost of human lives.
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2007-09-02 15:12|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2007-09-02 15:12|| Front Page Top

#11 rantburgians may be interested to know that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has not come to the opinion that:

- there is no hope to reform Islam

- according to her, the west should, after giving some warning, carper bomb Mecca and Medina - this would produce 6 months of mega seething then sober depression, then sober thought, then mass apostasy

she hasn't written this yet, it just exists in some informal Q&As
Posted by mhw 2007-09-02 15:23||   2007-09-02 15:23|| Front Page Top

#12 the word 'not' should not have been in the first sentence

sorry
Posted by mhw 2007-09-02 15:24||   2007-09-02 15:24|| Front Page Top

#13 A quick aside: Please note how—all debate about Europe's Islamicization aside—Turkey deems itself a viable candidate for inclusion in the EU. This is a stunning example of just how willfully ignorant—or intentionally deceiving—Muslims are about their total incompatibility with Western culture.

the word 'not' should not have been in the first sentence

Whew, mhw, you had me worried for a moment there.

First Walid Shoebat and now Ayaan Hirsi Ali—curiously, both apostate Muslim women—are telling us that Islam cannot be reformed. Isn't it time we listened to those who have actually resided within the belly of the beast?

I am also beginning to agree with Hirsi Ali. While I once felt that the shrines at Mecca and Medina might serve best as physical hostages to deter Islamic terrorism, I am now starting to rethink that position. Islam's continued jihad against the West centers upon its perception that we lack resolve and are a paper tiger. This has engendered an inclination towards both overconfidence and using intentionally exaggerated invective to shape opinions on the Arab street.

Islam has lost any sense of vulnerability. Its incessant cries of victimhood are merely a ploy and nothing more than—as YorkshireMiner says—"the thin end of an even bigger wedge". Islam's self-perceived immunity is largely responsible for its headlong assault upon all Western nations and traditions.

It is time to give Muslims pause. Their collective sense of invulnerability must be shattered for once and all. A notion of the consequences awaiting their continued terrorist atrocities somehow must be imbued upon them. The West needs to inflict a physical and spiritual scar of such staggering proportions that it cannot be ignored. Islam must suffer a disfiguring wound that will forever remind it of its hubris and offensive intolerance. We in America have had our Ground Zero and it may well be necessary for Islam to have one of its own. Some sort of stark reminder as to what awaits further aggression against the West.

I do not think that destruction of both shrines at Mecca and Medina would be prudent. Perhaps one, namely, Medina as the lesser of the two but not both. That said, I feel it would be even more advantageous to make an example out of a lesser Islamic site and permit that lesson to sink in alongside an unequivocal reminder as to what will happen next. There is one ideal location that would suit this approach.

Qom. No Islamic entity is more deserving of the West's wrath. No better example of Islamic theocracy exists outside of Iran. In light of Sunni hatred for Shiite apostasy, we could parlay such a move into a gesture of solidarity with peace-loving elements within Islam—if they even exist—in order to bring about change.

If that change is not forthcoming—and forthcoming damnably fast—then make an example out of Medina with overt reference to Mecca's place at the top of our Christmas list. Much like the ancient joke where a farmer strikes his mule upon the forehead with a two-by-four, "to first get his attention", we must do whatever it takes to get Islam's "attention" as well. Time is running short, both for us—in terms of a terrorist nuclear attack—and Islam with respect to a Muslim holocaust.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-09-02 16:07||   2007-09-02 16:07|| Front Page Top

#14 Not shrines, Zen. 500,000 martyrs in one stroke is more memorable.
Posted by Skidmark 2007-09-02 16:15||   2007-09-02 16:15|| Front Page Top

#15 Of course there are moderate muslims. They are the ones who are lukewarm at best in their belief and commitment. Kinda like your Christmas and Easter Christians. The only reason they don't walk away is because the true believers would have them whacked.
Posted by Abu Uluque6305  2007-09-02 16:19||   2007-09-02 16:19|| Front Page Top

#16 500,000 martyrs in one stroke is more memorable.

Patience, Skidmark, patience. That time is soon coming. Islam's intransigence nigh-well guarantees it. However much one might hope otherwise, the destruction of Qom or Medina will most likely not provide sufficient deterrence. It is why I still maintain that progress will be made only when Muslims suffer in equal or much greater proportion to the West. It is doubtful that a 10:1 or 100:1 ratio will have any impact upon Muslim mulishness. Somewhere around a ratio of 1,000:1 or 10,000:1 killed after the next terrorist atrocity in the West is probably what will get Islam's attention. Until then it will only be more of the same.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-09-02 16:31||   2007-09-02 16:31|| Front Page Top

#17 First Walid Shoebat and now Ayaan Hirsi Ali—curiously, both apostate Muslim women...

Walid Shoebat's a woman?? Got a heck of a mustache for a gal.
Posted by Angie Schultz 2007-09-02 17:01||   2007-09-02 17:01|| Front Page Top

#18 Thank you, Sherry. I was thinking of Wafa Sultan. Both have the initials W.S.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-09-02 17:05||   2007-09-02 17:05|| Front Page Top

#19 Got a heck of a mustache for a gal.

I'll politely leave the door open on this one for our resident wags.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-09-02 17:06||   2007-09-02 17:06|| Front Page Top

#20 "Turkish PM : There is no moderate Islam"

At least we agree on something.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2007-09-02 17:40|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]  2007-09-02 17:40|| Front Page Top

#21 I would feel much more sanguine about this if our people were out of Incirlik and the various and sundry other postings in Turkey.
Posted by RWV 2007-09-02 19:44||   2007-09-02 19:44|| Front Page Top

#22 You can't get a moderate Muslim---but you can get a scared one. To wit, for more than 200 years were was no---I repeat none---Muslim aggression against the West.
Posted by gromgoru 2007-09-02 20:28||   2007-09-02 20:28|| Front Page Top

#23 Zenster and others,

There is NO WAY a western government will ever destroy mecca or medina at least not short of nuclear war and that's still a long way away IMHO. Is there any way we can do it outside of the government? I'm not talking car bomb here but is there any way normal humans (non muzzies) can get this done? Drop a bomb on that stupid rock from a lear jet or something?
Posted by jds 2007-09-02 20:28||   2007-09-02 20:28|| Front Page Top

#24 jds, this is why you don't see me screaming for such a thing. I think it is far more likely that retaliation for future atrocities may finally begin to include carpet-bombing entire Muslim cities. Again, I no longer really care what form it takes but the collective Muslim psyche needs to have some truly traumatic wounds inflicted upon it.

After each Islamic atrocity, the world's Muslim population should quake in its shoes awaiting the West's response. We need to make our replies sufficiently harsh whereby Muslims finally begin the task of killing their jihadist factions. There will no other way of pacifying Islamic jihadism than from within. Whatever moderate Muslims there are must be made to realize that their continued existence relies upon swift and timely action against radical Islam. We must not allow failure to be an option for them.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-09-02 20:53||   2007-09-02 20:53|| Front Page Top

#25 Grоmgoru, not entirely correct, there were some muslim agressions during that time frame (you just can't convert a wolf into a sheep), but sporadic.

jds, get me a lear jet plus ample $150K for related expenses and I'll take care of the rest. ;-)

Posted by twobyfour 2007-09-02 21:03||   2007-09-02 21:03|| Front Page Top

#26 2X4 Lemme check my lottery ticket. If I get it you get it.
Posted by jds 2007-09-02 21:24||   2007-09-02 21:24|| Front Page Top

#27 Grîmgoru, not entirely correct, there were some muslim agressions during that time frame (you just can't convert a wolf into a sheep), but sporadic.

ref?
Posted by gromgoru 2007-09-02 21:26||   2007-09-02 21:26|| Front Page Top

#28 gg, for instance:
Second Barbary War
Jihad: The Mahdi Rebellion in the Sudan
Check also the history of British Palestine where muslims aggression started long before establishment of Israel, and continue with Israel-Arab wars.
Other spots in no particulr chronology: Phillipines, Algeria, Indonesia, India/Pakistan, etc.

In fact, the aggression never stopped, it was just less frequent and less deadly (although Armenians may object to that assessment).
Posted by twobyfour 2007-09-02 22:32||   2007-09-02 22:32|| Front Page Top

#29 What else could he have said? He doesn't want the label of "moderate Moslem" hung on him because it is politically dangerous and weakens him; and even if he really is a "moderate Muslim" he won't consider himself "moderate," he'll consider himself faithful.

Remember that no "heretic" calls himself one. He calls himself a reformer, and everybody else is the heretic.

This is news the way "lawyer says his client is innocent" is news. Ergodan may be a closet jihadi or not; I can't tell from this.
Posted by James">James  2007-09-02 22:39|| http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com]">[http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com]  2007-09-02 22:39|| Front Page Top

#30 OK, humble cake.
Posted by gromgoru 2007-09-02 23:18||   2007-09-02 23:18|| Front Page Top

#31 James, you need to consider all his utterances (one of them--for instance--his hope that he can be instrumental in islamization of Europe) and then you would understand what he just said in the context.
Posted by twobyfour 2007-09-02 23:30||   2007-09-02 23:30|| Front Page Top

23:53 Zenster
23:45 Frank G
23:30 twobyfour
23:27  KBK
23:19 Frank G
23:19 Barbara Skolaut
23:18 gromgoru
23:13 twobyfour
23:11 twobyfour
23:10  KBK
23:08 Frank G
22:58  KBK
22:56 twobyfour
22:50 Old Patriot
22:39 James
22:32 twobyfour
22:20 Ptah
22:19 WTF
22:15 Frank G
22:15 WTF
22:10  KBK
22:02 Frank G
21:59  KBK
21:46 Frank G









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