Article

2007-04-07 Iraq

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Posted by Steve White 2007-04-07 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11132 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Isn't it about time EFPs started to kill IRG forces inside Iran? Just saying, Iran isn't the only country capable of designing, building, using these. Give em to the Anti-Mullah rebels (even as distasteful as those groups are to us) to use

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-07 07:50|| 2007-04-07 07:50|| Front Page Top

#2 Frank G, for several good reasons we do not sponsor or condone terroists. It may be painful to endure, but we are gonna have to put up with it untill our political masters decide to do regime change in iran.

We do sponsor honest insurgencies (sp?) however. But the insurgents better at least go thru the motions of observing the outlines of our laws of warfare. The insurgents have to have a realistic chance of sucess, and have a plan for ruling that includes more than oppression and looting the national treasury.

Terrorists, OTOH meet none of the above critera.

Besides-- when it comes to bombing, shooting, killing and breaking stuff, its more fun to do it your self. Plus, you get to do it right. Proxies never get it just right.

Posted by Helmuth, Speaking for N guard 2007-04-07 09:56|| 2007-04-07 09:56|| Front Page Top

#3 Plus, you get to do it right. Proxies never get it just right.

Yep, then the Treasury's loot is YOURS, not theirs. (Rather obvious.)

Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-04-07 10:03|| 2007-04-07 10:03|| Front Page Top

#4 well, "Helmuth", we typically call them "freedom fighters" - I was thinking more of Kurds in Iran than the MEK

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-07 10:14|| 2007-04-07 10:14|| Front Page Top

#5 While striving (and succeeding) to avoid harming non-combatants is a criterion, Helmuth, your others simply are not. To apply pressure and pain to an enemy like Iran we're not limited to proxies that are more pure than even the US military in their performance. The specific hypothetical in question - EFPs directed against IRGC personnel inside Iran - doesn't raise any issues of the sort you list.

I say "yes" to the "or" question - proxies or do it yourself? The starting point should always have been an extremely harsh and relentless hunt for Iranian agents inside Iraq - and of course those working with them. The Irbil 5 should have been the all-over-Iraq-1,000, starting probably two years ago, if not sooner.

Political issues in arresting/killing folks connected to a sovereign govt. in Iraq? OK. They'd have put up with it, just as they've been putting up with lots of things they don't like from us, every day, before and after June 2005. Besides which the optics of confronting Iran helps with Sunnis and many more educated urban Shi'a.

In this case satisfaction of Frank G and others here, and national objectives, are in perfect harmony. Hurting Iran and their proxies in Iraq both protects our forces and Iraqis and would likely affect Iranian behavior. They'd be unlikely to be steadfast when, finally, they're hit, and hit hard.

Posted by Verlaine 2007-04-07 10:56|| 2007-04-07 10:56|| Front Page Top

#6 I guess I skipped a few thoughts. One additional consideration is that regimes like Iran, Saddam's Iraq, and most of the other members of the U.N. Human Rights gaggle do not respond well to indirect pressure applied to their general population.

You have to hit the regime directly to modify behavior. Preferaby with high explosives. (i.e. libya) If you use a proxy that primarily attacks civilians, the rulers of these hell-holes will not care. After all, peasants and cannon fodder are a renewable resource.

As for the EFP's, I take it as a good sign. The AIF are having to import munitions. Back in 2005, it seemed that every time we turned around, we found a pile of arty shells that were being used for assorted IED's/VBIED's. Toward the end of our tour in 2005, we were just seeing the first EFP's.

It is interesting that the brits are just now getting hit with the stuff we've been dealing with. V, do you have any additional info you can put out here?

Posted by Helmuth, Speaking for N guard 2007-04-07 11:40|| 2007-04-07 11:40|| Front Page Top

#7 OK, but that's why I first said:

Isn't it about time EFPs started to kill IRG forces inside Iran?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-07 11:45|| 2007-04-07 11:45|| Front Page Top

#8 One other thought-- It would seem that one of our objectives in regime change(tm) is to set up a gov't that will not cause us trouble. This usulay is labeld as "democratic and Relatively un-corrupt" by us. Sometimes it even matches the label.

That was what I menat with my criterion about more than oppression and looting the national treasury.

Posted by Helmuth, Speaking for N guard 2007-04-07 11:47|| 2007-04-07 11:47|| Front Page Top

#9 I'm extremely curious as to how the families of these dead soldiers feel about the conciliatory attitude being shown Iran in the face of its hostile acts. Now that they've been freed, maybe those overly-cooperative fifteen soldiers could come up with some consoling words for these bereaved families. Although I'm obliged to wonder just how well received such a demonstration would be.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-07 11:51|| 2007-04-07 11:51|| Front Page Top

#10 Frank, the IRG are cannon fodder. Politicaly relaibe, but still cannon fodder. The ordinace needs to be killing mullahs, not cannon fodder.

I seriously doubt we can find a group that will attack the Mullahs. The Mullahs are just too tough a target for your insurgents. So we will have to do it ourselves, after we exhust all other alternatives.

Posted by Helmuth, Speaking for N guard 2007-04-07 11:53|| 2007-04-07 11:53|| Front Page Top

#11 the Mullahs respond to power and money - they have assets, remove em. I understand that Rafsanjani owns a Mercedes dealership (how holy!)...be a shame if it burned to the ground... I agree that taking the fight directly to the Mullahs is a better way, but as you note, it's not easy

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-04-07 12:02|| 2007-04-07 12:02|| Front Page Top

#12 So we will have to do it ourselves, after we exhust all other alternatives.

Weren't "all other alternatives" exhausted back in 1979? Tyrannies have no sovereign rights. It is a tremendous flaw amongst leaders of the free world that they persist in needlessly according any respect or recognition to scum like Iran's mullahs, Mugabe, Kim Jong-il, Assad or any of the other two-bit shitheads that make a pretense of governing.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-07 12:13|| 2007-04-07 12:13|| Front Page Top

#13 All governments are not equal, for this reason we should disolve the UN, and form a democracy only organization. We don't need to pretend to 'talk' to the bloodthirsty dictators of the world.

Posted by wxjames 2007-04-07 13:03|| 2007-04-07 13:03|| Front Page Top

#14 Sending an aerial message to G'Daffy got his attention, for a while. Same with the MMs. Taking out their assets and families will send a message. You hurt us. We hurt you 10x. This Shiite has been going on for almost 30 years. So we wait for an atomic bomb to start the cleanup? The MMs are saying "We will produce a nuke and we will destroy you." The EUniks are saying, "We think that your rhetoric is a bit harsh. Can't we just talk and settle our differences?" Dinnerjacket and the MMs need to be personally hurt to get the message across. They do not give a rat's behind about their people or forces. They are pawns. Just look at what happened to them during the Iran-Iraq war. Thousands and thousands mowed down, for nothing. Dinnerjacket and the MMs need some direct pain, covert or overt. Then this crap will stop. The latest Brit hostage crisis was just Jimmah---Teheran Lite. There will be more if we don't deal with it now.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2007-04-07 13:15|| 2007-04-07 13:15|| Front Page Top

#15 You hurt us. We hurt you 10x.

Nothing will change until this is a blanket policy for all Muslim attacks on the West. Disproportionate retaliation is one of the only ways get their attention. Islam must be made to feel our pain so acutely that every terorist atrocity brings on another wave of Muslims slitting jihadist imams' throats.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-07 13:31|| 2007-04-07 13:31|| Front Page Top

#16 The ordinace needs to be killing mullahs, not cannon fodder.

We can do both, you know. Lotsa concentrated targets every Friday...

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2007-04-07 13:48|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2007-04-07 13:48|| Front Page Top

#17 Helmuth, Speaking for N guard

Gimme just a sec to find my DeLameter.

Posted by gromgoru 2007-04-07 15:26|| 2007-04-07 15:26|| Front Page Top

#18 We won't be able to get a handle on the MME until Qom and Riyadh are nuked into glass. These two locations supply the money, direction, and intensity to all jihad movements, and only their total destruction will put an end to that sponsorship. Wipe out the house of Saud, divide Saudi Arabia between Jordan and Kuwait, and let both know that if they get "uppity", the same thing will happen to them. Let the Persians and their fellow-travellers decide for themselves whether we need to make a second attack, and where. LET THE WHOLE DA$$$D WORLD KNOW THAT WE WILL DESTROY THOSE MAKING WAR AGAINST US, USING ANY AND ALL WEAPONS AT OUR DISPOSAL, AND WE DON'T GIVE A RAT'S A$$ WHAT THEY THINK. This "we need to be liked" crap is just that - unadultrated, unrefined male bovine feces, cubed.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2007-04-07 21:56|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2007-04-07 21:56|| Front Page Top

#19 Gimme just a sec to find my DeLameter.

I wondered when somebody was going to catch that.

Any lensmen out here? I have something for youuuu...

Posted by Helmuth, Speaking for N guard 2007-04-07 22:02|| 2007-04-07 22:02|| Front Page Top

#20 We won't be able to get a handle on the MME until Qom and Riyadh are nuked into glass. These two locations supply the money, direction, and intensity to all jihad movements, and only their total destruction will put an end to that sponsorship.

Islam's current course sure makes it seem so. I'd love to think there were any alternatives. I'm no longer so optomistic. Reformation just ~~doesn't seem to be~~ isn't in the cards and that's a death knell for Islam. Can't say I'll maiss any of these rotters, that's for sure.

This "we need to be liked" crap is just that - unadultrated, unrefined male bovine feces, cubed.

Better to be feared than liked, or however Rantburg's motto goes. We've tried the "being liked" ploy for the last several decades and all there is to show for it is a smoking hole in New York City. Enough of this shit.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-07 23:58|| 2007-04-07 23:58|| Front Page Top

23:58 Zenster
23:48 Verlaine
23:44 Verlaine
23:36 Caesar Glemp7672
23:34 Caesar Glemp7672
23:30 Caesar Glemp7672
23:22 Caesar Glemp7672
23:19 Mike Kozlowski
23:06 GK
22:52 trailing wife
22:40 Caesar Glemp7672
22:35 trailing wife
22:24 Caesar Glemp7672
22:02 Helmuth, Speaking for N guard
22:02 tu3031
21:58 Helmuth, Speaking for N guard
21:57 tu3031
21:56 Old Patriot
21:54 Zenster
21:54 tu3031
21:45 Zenster
21:42 Get your Gun
21:15 Get your Gun
21:09 Jackal