Article

2007-01-31 Britain

More on the Raid: Beheading Plot Was 'Days Away'

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Posted by PlanetDan 2007-01-31 11:57|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Is there finally a point at which we can start to deal with this with the seriousness it deserves? Is there no final atrocity to get our blood up? Or have we become so enervated, so weak, that we have as much as brought our fate upon ourselves?

Posted by Excalibur 2007-01-31 14:49|| 2007-01-31 14:49|| Front Page Top

#2 ~~British citizens of Pakistani descent~~ Muslim terrorists

Fixed it.

Posted by mcsegeek1 2007-01-31 14:53|| 2007-01-31 14:53|| Front Page Top

#3 Now I think that terrorism should be treated seriously, and this is a war, but cmon, a conspiracy to kill one single British soldier? Not exactly some vast society shaking act.And it was broken up the police. Which is a good word in favor of CURRENT Brit anti-terr laws and actions (against those on the left who would weaken them), but doesnt exactly indicated theyre deficient.

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-01-31 15:01|| 2007-01-31 15:01|| Front Page Top

#4 Excalibur, probably not as long as the cops are able to keep nipping little plots like this in the bud. It must be putting a lot of pressure on the cops. But when the terrorists begin to succeed too often all bets are off.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-01-31 15:04|| 2007-01-31 15:04|| Front Page Top

#5 It will take something like a Beslan-style schoole siege to people up. Only then, when people see children cowering in a school gymnasium will this seem real to people. It's very sad.

Posted by reality check 2007-01-31 15:50|| 2007-01-31 15:50|| Front Page Top

#6 Now I think that terrorism should be treated seriously, and this is a war, but cmon, a conspiracy to kill one single British soldier?

Yeah, grabbing someone off the street, torturing him, cutting his head off -- and getting it all on videotape -- who cares?!

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2007-01-31 16:05|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2007-01-31 16:05|| Front Page Top

#7 Aren't the Brit police suppose to discuss raids like this with the local Imam before they occur?

Thought I've read several things like that over the last 6 months.

"...but cmon, a conspiracy to kill one single British soldier?"

LH I respect your writings but I have to ask how many is too many? There's that guy (name escapes me) that recently said that the 3000 of 9/11 didn't compare to the Russkie losses in WWII so our reaction was way out of proportion.

How much is too much?

Posted by AlanC">AlanC 2007-01-31 16:54|| 2007-01-31 16:54|| Front Page Top

#8 didnt say who cares, but if the point is that this is war, not just crime, I dont think this makes the case. Its disgusting, and Orcish, and all, but so are the horror stories of what pervs do to little kids and all that. Im not in anyway saying we shouldnt be disgusted at this - Im just asking how it indicates that current approaches (which broke up this plot, BTW) arent working?

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-01-31 16:54|| 2007-01-31 16:54|| Front Page Top

#9 nice downplay LH. I'd bet you'd feel better if it was someone you respected, instead of a military target....say...a Democrat?

cheap shot, I know, but your mewling comment deserved nothing better, and I'm not feeling charitable

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-01-31 16:55|| 2007-01-31 16:55|| Front Page Top

#10 "LH I respect your writings but I have to ask how many is too many? There's that guy (name escapes me) that recently said that the 3000 of 9/11 didn't compare to the Russkie losses in WWII so our reaction was way out of proportion.

How much is too much?"

One is too many in some level. No murder is acceptable.

An attack that takes 3000 lives, and that easily could have taken several times that, and that destroyed billions of dollars worth of property, and that disrupted the US economy, etc, etc was enough to justify what we did in afghanistan, and taking on AQ globally, etc. IE what we are already doing. Would we have done anything differently if one more individual had died at the WTC? 9/11, and the steady sequence of lesser attacks, are great enough, that I dont see why attacks at individuals would warrant more. Its like there was a ten car pile up at the local intersection, and you build a safety improvement, but not as good a one as some folks want, and then theres a fenderbender and somebody says see, we need a better safety improvement. If 9/11 didnt warrent doing anything more than we are now, why would this?

When will take things MORE seriously than we do now? When theres a second 9/11 or greater in scale, or when low level attacks become as frequent as they were in Israel during the intifadah. Not before then, Im afraid. Hell, at this point the challenge before us is to KEEP the level of concern as high as it has been, and to keep the complacency from growing. And im not talking partisanship here. I was on a subway today, and there was a bag that looked unattended (it turned out to belong to a woman sitting a row back from it) I didnt even notice it, but this more alert woman did and asked if I had noticed who it belonged to - we asked the woman sitting behind, whose bag it turned out to be, and so alls well that ends well. But the point is, this woman who noticed and asked, was APOLEGETIC, said how theyve made us paranoid. I just said, well its no cost to ask, its good we did.

What will it take to get people to again NOT BE APOLEGETIC in a situation like that? More than a foiled plot to kill one person, I fear.

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-01-31 17:07|| 2007-01-31 17:07|| Front Page Top

#11 given that the chosen target was a muslim, Im willing that there probably arent that many folks here who respect him more than I do.

BTW, I really love this one person is a world crap from y'all. So do you agree that ONE muslim UK soldier makes anti-muslim shit despicable? Why is that in measuring moderate muslims, anything less than tens of thousands doesnt count, but when we're talking the reality of what it will take to change attitudes to the WOT, noting that 1 death isnt the same as 100 or 1000 suddenly makes me morally despicable?

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-01-31 17:10|| 2007-01-31 17:10|| Front Page Top

#12 LH you have to look at this in the context of the global Islamofacism movement. This isn't a single case. It's one of a long stream that includes Beslan & Bali & Thai teachers & UK busses & US airplanes &...........

The question is when will the UK and Europe (and the US left ) awaken to the fact that this is a global war. It is fought with different tactics by the would be Caliphate but they are all connected by their ideology.

Posted by AlanC">AlanC 2007-01-31 17:26|| 2007-01-31 17:26|| Front Page Top

#13 Even when these plots don't succeed, the jihad still succeeds by adding a large societal burden. The primary target of the Sept. 11 attacks was the American economy. The WTC and lives lost was secondary. Jihad is a long term weakening and conquest of non-muslim civilizations and the enemy within the most cost effective weapon. The attacks are just the attention grabbing headlines.

Posted by ed 2007-01-31 18:06|| 2007-01-31 18:06|| Front Page Top

#14 Videotaped beheadings, etc. are just recruiting tools rather than terrorism. The would-be jihadis in the markets of Pakistan just can't get enough of them.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2007-01-31 18:21|| 2007-01-31 18:21|| Front Page Top

#15 In a nutshell, we have to start killing jihdis faster than they are killing us infidels/westerners/jews/buddhists/christians.

This hasn't happened yet.

Yet...

Posted by Parabellum 2007-01-31 18:29|| 2007-01-31 18:29|| Front Page Top

#16 LH, their point was ALL about promoting mohammedism in their own, pious way.

It was ALL about showing the ~~dhimmis~~ West that they are so terribly brutal, no one will stand in their way.

It was ALL about creating fear in us and THAT is the issue. Not the number of people, but taking a muslim soldier and brutally murdering him as an example.

We need to respond in-kind. We need to go to "Chicago Rules" and beyond.

Posted by Brett 2007-01-31 19:15|| 2007-01-31 19:15|| Front Page Top

#17 Folks are missing the plot here, and LH is sending us off down a rabbit trail by focusing on "one soldier".

The key phrase isn't "one soldier" -- it's "Muslim soldier of Pakistani descent". This plot was intended to drive any Muslims out of the British armed forces and further segregate Muslims from mainstream British life.

The public beheading was intended as a warning to all other Muslims that joining the British military (or police etc.) will be punished.

Posted by occasional observer 2007-01-31 21:26|| 2007-01-31 21:26|| Front Page Top

#18 Ooops ... Brett and I overlapped.

Posted by occasional observer 2007-01-31 21:27|| 2007-01-31 21:27|| Front Page Top

#19 Why is that in measuring moderate muslims, anything less than tens of thousands doesnt count, but when we're talking the reality of what it will take to change attitudes to the WOT, noting that 1 death isnt the same as 100 or 1000 suddenly makes me morally despicable?

Because, LH, most of the examples thrown around here are "infidels" to the jihadis as much as we are. Because there's 1.2 BILLION of them, so how hard is it, really, to find several thousand to speak out against the jihadis? And, finally, because as we've said before, we value LIFE more than death. It's a lot "EASIER" to protest against the jihadis than it is to *allow* 1 more death at the hands of these barbarians. Yes, maybe 1 death won't make much difference in tactics, but it d@mn well better keep our nose to the grindstone, stiffen our spine and strengthen our resolve.

Like the President always says, "We have to be right 100% of the time. They only have to be right once."

Posted by BA 2007-01-31 22:35|| 2007-01-31 22:35|| Front Page Top

23:39 Anguper Hupomosing9418
23:36 49 Pan
23:29 Alaska Paul
23:14 tipper
23:11 DMFD
23:00 DMFD
22:58 DMFD
22:47 Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo)
22:45 Mike N.
22:45 anymouse
22:35 BA
22:26 BA
22:21 Elmert Crosh5077
22:15 JosephMendiola
22:07 USN, ret.
21:58 USN, ret.
21:48 Phemp Uneger3592
21:48 JohnQC
21:45 USN, ret.
21:45 Three Wise Monkeys
21:27 occasional observer
21:26 occasional observer
21:16 Mike N.
21:15 Jackal