Article

2007-01-20 India-Pakistan

Army fired laser-guided missiles in Waziristan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred 2007-01-20 00:00|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Safe guess these are Chinese missiles?

Posted by Mike N. 2007-01-20 00:59|| 2007-01-20 00:59|| Front Page Top

#2 good thing that Medical Technician was there to witness the whole thing. Was his wife Morgan Fairchild there with him?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-01-20 01:16|| 2007-01-20 01:16|| Front Page Top

#3 60% failure rate? Jeez, where did the Pakis get these missiles from, Wiley Coyote's garage sale? The US switched a major weapons contract due to one manufacturer having a 2% failure rate on cluster munitions, and the Pakis can live with 60%?

Posted by Shieldwolf 2007-01-20 02:29|| 2007-01-20 02:29|| Front Page Top

#4 Made in China or the "Former U.S.S.R."

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2007-01-20 03:27|| www.sockpuppetofdoom.com]">[www.sockpuppetofdoom.com] 2007-01-20 03:27|| Front Page Top

#5 Bet the bombs were fine until someone with a good heart gave the explosive element to the Widows Ammo Fund.

Posted by Shipman 2007-01-20 05:48|| 2007-01-20 05:48|| Front Page Top

#6 The residents of Kot Kalay in northeast South Waziristan showed a group of journalists on Friday an unexploded 500-pound missile that had pierced through a rooftop and went four feet into the ground. The provenance of the missiles wasnt clear.

No, they didn't. Let's see if we can figure out what was really dropped there, shall we?
First of all, we can pretty much rule out that the press has identified this thing properly at all. Missiles explode on impact- if the fuze doesn't work, unburned rocket fuel DOES. They are also fairly lightly built, so they don't survive an impact and then four feet of penetration into the Earth.
Bombs are another matter entirely. Even the most basic 500 pounders have a thick steel case that, if the fuze doesn't explode, will allow the weapon to survive impact and bury itself fairly deep - and I believe what we're seeing here is a Pakistani laser guided bomb, probably a Chinese LT series. We've never given the Pakis LGB technology for fear they'd use it on the Indians.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2007-01-20 08:27|| 2007-01-20 08:27|| Front Page Top

#7 Rantburg U rulez! Just wait 'til I drop that little tidbit into a dinner party conversation! ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2007-01-20 10:43|| 2007-01-20 10:43|| Front Page Top

Here's the untouched picture, grabbed from Pak Daily Times, with the "missile." Assuming it's not just a file foto of a generic incident:

It's not a "500 lb missile." It's a bomb, and not 500 lb.
The bomb didn't go off. It's what's known in the trade as a "dud."
The village is populated by turban-wearing geniuses who tied a rope around one end of the dud and hauled it out of the hole to have a look at it.
The turban-wearing geniuses aren't aware of the fact that just because a dud didn't go off that doesn't mean it won't go off. So they're all posing for a nice group foto.
The next step is to try and pry the fuze out of the nose to present to the local satrap or holy man as a souvenir. These things go on pretty tight, so they'll probably have to use a cold chisel and a claw hammer to get if off.

Posted by Fred 2007-01-20 10:45|| 2007-01-20 10:45|| Front Page Top

#9 :-) Darwin's law - demonstrated just so!

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-01-20 10:47|| 2007-01-20 10:47|| Front Page Top

#10

They're Muslims, so nobody will say "Here, hold my beer!"

Posted by Fred 2007-01-20 10:49|| 2007-01-20 10:49|| Front Page Top

#11 they'll probably have to use a cold chisel and a claw hammer to get it (the fuse) off.

Quicker to use a cutting torch, Ima thinking. Inshallah!

Posted by SteveS 2007-01-20 10:49|| 2007-01-20 10:49|| Front Page Top

#12 Made in China, operated by Pak mules...it's a wonder that 2 out of 10 functioned at all, let alone hit the target.

Posted by SpecOp35 2007-01-20 12:14|| 2007-01-20 12:14|| Front Page Top

#13 Fred-

Thanks for the pic! Looks very much indeed like a Mk82 500lb GP bomb, an old and beloved companion of my misspent youth, but the Chinese have long produced -82 and Mk84 clones. From the looks of it, the weapon is tail fuzed, which is often the case with PGMs. A point that 'Burgers may find interesting and that may have some bearing on this is that for many years, the ~~Soviets~~ Russians and Chinese made many of their weapons and assorted fittings/parts to fit US weapons. One of the more unusual things I saw in my career was while examining a MiG-27 with fuselage racks made in the USSR - but that could quickly and easily be adjusted to carry US weapons. I was told at the time that that this was how the bird had come from its source. Given that the Pakis (like most Third World countries) often want the firepower without the expense, they may have just bought the LGB guidance and fuzing kits and MADE them fit. OTOH, if that's a Chinese weapon and/or guidance/fuzing, their QC has always sucked rather badly - it's income first, reliability second because they know that if the stuff doesn't work, the users will blame their own troops first.
And yes, the deely-boppers in the pic have NO idea what they're messing with. I'm guessing a work accident is imminent.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2007-01-20 12:18|| 2007-01-20 12:18|| Front Page Top

#14 Further to Mike's point, I recall a discussion long ago about Russian artillery. The Russians waited until US/NATO finalised their caliber then set there own caliber at 1 millimeter larger. So a Russian gun could fire captured Western shells, although with a loose fit, but not the other way around. A major selling point for third party arms sales. I always wondered if this was true.

Posted by Grunter 2007-01-20 13:27|| 2007-01-20 13:27|| Front Page Top

#15 That has got to be horrible for the life of the barrel.

Posted by Mike N. 2007-01-20 14:07|| 2007-01-20 14:07|| Front Page Top

#16 Grunter - it's true. What's not well-known is that NATO didn't want to use Russian equipment because so much of it killed its operators. Rather something in limited supply that worked CONSISTENTLY than something available in plenty but that worked, but not well.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2007-01-20 15:23|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2007-01-20 15:23|| Front Page Top

#17 Pakistan is not listed as current user of the GBU-12 or any of the other US LBGs that I could find, but their F-16s have the French ATLIS Laser designator that is compatible with US LBGs. Can't really tell from that angle the size but it has the shape of the Mk-82 500 pounder (or clone) but not the 1000 and 2000 lb US Mk-83&84 nor the Chinese LT-2. Could be the Pakistanis received some early deliveries of GBU-12 units from the latest US arms package or illegally by other means and mated it with an old Mk-82 bomb body.

In Oct 2006, Pakistan's buy of new F-16s was finalized. Included in that was:
500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits
1,600 Enhanced-GBU-12/24 GBUs
800 MK-82 500 pound General Purpose (GP) and MK-84 2,000 pound GP bombs
700 BLU-109 2,000 pound bunker-buster bombs with the FMU-143 Fuse

Posted by ed 2007-01-20 15:32|| 2007-01-20 15:32|| Front Page Top

#18 As the story goes, the Soviets anticipated using captured NATO ammo after surging through Fulda, which is why so many of their systems are compatible.

Posted by Chuck Simmins">Chuck Simmins 2007-01-20 15:46|| http://northshorejournal.org]">[http://northshorejournal.org] 2007-01-20 15:46|| Front Page Top

#19 Are y'all sure about that tailo fuse thingy? That end closest to those of us a safe distance away looks to my like a nose fuse prpeller thingy. I am not an Ordy, but have seen enough to know that when the bomb is released the arming wire stays with the airplane and then the little prop starts spinning, and when it reaches the right number of revolutions its live.
Regarding the NATO / USSR comments: compatibilty was not limited to just ordanance: a lot of aircraft ground support equipment and a/c fuel pressure nozzles / receptacles were also designed by the Russians to utilize captured NATO . US stuff, but not the other way around.

Posted by USN, ret. 2007-01-20 16:05|| 2007-01-20 16:05|| Front Page Top

#20 I'm betting AcmeNoKo.

Posted by doc 2007-01-20 17:43|| 2007-01-20 17:43|| Front Page Top

#21 USN-
Sir, definitely not a nose fuze. It looks more like the remains of the laser guidance unit after it hit.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2007-01-20 18:38|| 2007-01-20 18:38|| Front Page Top

#22 Difficult to tell where it's fuzed. Time to examine that rascal. Fetch the ToolKit Manolo!

Posted by Shipman 2007-01-20 18:42|| 2007-01-20 18:42|| Front Page Top

#23 Facing the camera is the bomb body's tail section where the fin kit screws on.

Posted by ed 2007-01-20 18:59|| 2007-01-20 18:59|| Front Page Top

#24 Northeast South Waziristan. I'm glad I'll never know exactly where that is.

Posted by Unique Battle 2007-01-20 23:45|| 2007-01-20 23:45|| Front Page Top

10:13 pioneerrr
23:58 49 Pan
23:45 Unique Battle
23:19 liberalhawk
22:51 Mike N.
22:48 Jackal
22:32 Verlaine
22:22 whatadeal
22:16 trailing wife
22:06 whatadeal
21:52 whatadeal
21:45 whatadeal
21:38 Sneaze Shaiting3550
21:25 Chuck Simmins
21:22 Whiskettes4Hilali
21:11 Mike N.
21:06 49 Pan
21:06 BA
21:02 Free Radical
20:57 RD
20:55 BA
20:51 Xenophon
20:43 BA
20:40 Pappy