Article

2006-12-04 Britain

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Posted by tipper 2006-12-04 07:16|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 i've been saying this for days now.

Posted by Bright Pebbles in Blairistan 2006-12-04 07:48|| 2006-12-04 07:48|| Front Page Top

#2 Has any credible source confirmed Litvinenko's alleged reversion?

Posted by exJAG 2006-12-04 07:54|| 2006-12-04 07:54|| Front Page Top

#3 Yeah it's an interesting theory. It's also plausible that Putin's thugs (KGB) planted the story of the conversion to misdirect
MI5 and MI6 in order to divert attention away from Moscow.

The only thing I know for sure is that until this story broke I had never heard of polonium - 210 and didn't know how deadly dangerous it can be.

Posted by Mark Z 2006-12-04 08:11|| 2006-12-04 08:11|| Front Page Top

#4 It's a good Cold War conspiracy theory. Ludlum, Le Carre and the like would love it.

Posted by SwissTex 2006-12-04 08:23|| 2006-12-04 08:23|| Front Page Top

#5 That's what I was thinking too MZ -- it would be awfully convenient for Pootie & Co. if Litvinenko could be linked to Chechen/AQ thugs, discrediting him and alienating his sympathizers.

I am familiar with radioisotopes, having handled some in my research, so I'd add one other thing for sure: if I was trying to construct a dirty bomb, alpha emitters like 210-Po would be last on my list of goodies to add to the mix. External exposure to a bottle of Drano would do more damage.

Posted by exJAG 2006-12-04 08:29|| 2006-12-04 08:29|| Front Page Top

#6 ExJAG - is that because alpha-emmitters are so weak they hafta be inside of you?

My physics is a bit dated.....

Posted by Bobby 2006-12-04 08:45|| 2006-12-04 08:45|| Front Page Top

#7 Yep. Alpha particles are big, fat, and slow (2p + 2n). A piece of paper or skin can stop them, so you literally have to eat them before they'll do much damage. An organic chemist has an excellent discussion of the internal effects here.

Posted by exJAG 2006-12-04 08:59|| 2006-12-04 08:59|| Front Page Top

#8 Is this the same stuff used on Static Masters?

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2006-12-04 09:10|| www.sockpuppetofdoom.com]">[www.sockpuppetofdoom.com] 2006-12-04 09:10|| Front Page Top

#9 sounds like KGB misdirection to me. Putin knows our big fear is Islamofascism.

He iced this guy to stop the dissent. He is a tyrant.

Posted by anon1 2006-12-04 09:33|| 2006-12-04 09:33|| Front Page Top

#10 Waht does, whoever started this rumor think? That to show the stuff was good quality to the terrorist he drank some?

Posted by plainslow 2006-12-04 10:07|| 2006-12-04 10:07|| Front Page Top

#11 It is far too convenient to have Putin himself involved in this assassination. While an Islamic link to this plot might be compelling, the question remains: Who benefits most from damaged relations between Russia and the West, which includes torpedoing the Russian WTO ascension?
Let's look at what I define as the core problem: What is China doing if it is not preparing to go head-to-head with the US militarily (which is being hotly debated)? The Chinese have far more resources available than is being put into their buildup. Simple logic dictates that the smart Chinese play be a sideways (asymmetric) move, one meant to remove the US from the world stage as a dominant power. The same would be true of its biggest regional threat: Russia. My .02.

Posted by Ike 2006-12-04 10:28|| 2006-12-04 10:28|| Front Page Top

#12 I checked out the link provided by exJAG. It's a very good explanation for those of us that have no knowledge of the subject.
Also, one of the commentors put forth a theory that I have not heard before. It states that he could have been killed by the Brits in return for Putin taking it easy on some Brit spies being held in Russia for treason. It seems very plausible to me.

Posted by Mike N. 2006-12-04 11:14|| 2006-12-04 11:14|| Front Page Top

#13 The only theory I haven't yet encountered about the Litvenko assassination is that the Jooos did it. Po-210 is inherently hard to understand: Needs a sophisticated support network to generate a fatal dose, easily shielded from outside detection in transit, and in sufficient dose quite fatal and irretrievably so (no real treatment once ingested).

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2006-12-04 11:24|| 2006-12-04 11:24|| Front Page Top

#14 LGF is reporting that his conversion is legit.

Posted by Raj 2006-12-04 11:42|| 2006-12-04 11:42|| Front Page Top

#15 Anguper Hup:

IIRC, the theory that Israel is behind the assassination has already been suggested by Pat Buchanan, perhaps most recently in a column he writes for...? Buchanan's theory was addressed last week here at RB.

Buchanan is alleged to be anti-semitic given the positions he has taken for the past 30 years relative to US support for Israel. I can offer no evidence to suggest Buchanan is anything but anti-semitic. Buchanan is a Catholic. So am I. Buchanan is an extreme embarrassment to me insofar as we are co-religionists.

Posted by Mark Z">Mark Z 2006-12-04 11:54|| 2006-12-04 11:54|| Front Page Top

#16 A deathbed conversion seems pointless, but that was his business I guess. As for the ties to Chechen rebels they surely have more to do with anti-Putin then pro-Islam. I'm not biting the "He was building a dirty bomb and accidentally swallowed some." theory.

Posted by Mike N. 2006-12-04 12:33|| 2006-12-04 12:33|| Front Page Top

#17 Whether or not he was a muslim, to me, seems like yet another red herring, just like all the news items last week about how you could mail-order polonium 210 from Bob Lazar (although the fact that the dosage used in the poisoning was four or five orders of magnitude larger than that was buried deep in the article, if it was present at all, after a couple thousand words devoted to laughing at the silly conspiracy theorists).

Posted by Phil Fraering 2006-12-04 12:40|| 2006-12-04 12:40|| Front Page Top

#18 From Raj's link:

#40 Earth2moonbat 12/4/2006 08:32AM PST

Work accident?

Posted by .com 2006-12-04 12:41|| 2006-12-04 12:41|| Front Page Top

#19 Hey, this UK blog had the scoop of Litvinenko being a muslim since last week, it seems.

Also :
"... Scotland Yard, which has been investigating Litvinenkos poisoning says it was unexplained death. It is worth mentioning that one of the first condoling letters was published by Maskhadovs family. At a web-site owned by Chechen separatists Litvinenko was called their brother, Muslim, famous human rights activist."

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-12-04 12:59|| 2006-12-04 12:59|| Front Page Top

#20 I'd forgotten what Pat Buchanan said, although I had read it at the time. In one end & out the other, for him...

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2006-12-04 13:13|| 2006-12-04 13:13|| Front Page Top

#21 Anguper Hup:

I owe you an apology (and to the RB folk). It just dawned on me that I've made a terrible mistake. Buchanan did not suggest the death of Litvinenko was the work of Mossad. It was the Christian gentlemen in Lebanon recently assassinated that Buchanan suggested was the work of Mossad. I am sorry.

(but I don't take back anything else I said about Buchanan despite my cred being shot out of the water by my own gun!)

Posted by Mark Z">Mark Z 2006-12-04 13:55|| 2006-12-04 13:55|| Front Page Top

#22 .com,

Not sure if I am willing to beleive that he would make that kind of mistake. And why Polonium? Does it work well as a dirty bomb? Water supply?

I still think this is just another Pooty hit job.
I think the last guy was Dioxin, so they couldn't use that again.

Posted by Mike N. 2006-12-04 13:58|| 2006-12-04 13:58|| Front Page Top

#23 Mike N - actually, I just thought it was funny, given the new bit about his Muzzinessiosityism.

I agree with you: Tsar Putty / Pooty.

Posted by .com 2006-12-04 14:03|| 2006-12-04 14:03|| Front Page Top

#24 Mike N. :

A deathbed conversion to islam might not seem pointless to a former KGB agent guilty of unspeakable deeds who wished to guarantee himself a special place in Hell to better serve his Dark Master. Makes sense in an islamic sort of way...

Posted by Mark Z">Mark Z 2006-12-04 14:07|| 2006-12-04 14:07|| Front Page Top

#25 So if nothing else the prick is a traitor to the west and his grave will be one other site for my to visit overseas, to poop on.

Posted by Icerigger 2006-12-04 14:40|| 2006-12-04 14:40|| Front Page Top

#26 The nice thing about his conversion is that I will never have to meet him post worm food.

Posted by Mike N. 2006-12-04 14:56|| 2006-12-04 14:56|| Front Page Top

#27 You tend to find that people in eastern Europe who are anti-Putin, are also very pro-Chechnya. This is similar to the observation that people who are anti-Israel are also anti-US, for the most part.

Go to any one of many pro-Chechnya protests and you'll discover that a lot of those people are anti-Putin (or Russia in the broader sense) and they call Chechens their brothers. It isn't surprising then that anyone who fits in with this group would take it one step further and convert.

Such is life and you can't have it all. Anti-Putin and pro-Chechnya and pro-Muslim, or pro-Putin and anti-Chechnya and anti-Muslim (as far as that part of the world goes).

Posted by Flineck Threrese8072 2006-12-04 15:14|| 2006-12-04 15:14|| Front Page Top

#28 You can read Pat Buchanan's weasel-worded "Cui Bono! Cui Bono! AWK!" "non-accusation" here.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2006-12-04 15:30|| 2006-12-04 15:30|| Front Page Top

#29 How long before Putty claims he was a Chechyn Spy?

Posted by .com 2006-12-04 15:33|| 2006-12-04 15:33|| Front Page Top

#30 Do the rest of you really think the fact that some of his victims, or indeed, some of the Soviet Tradition's millions of victims, were Moslems going to make up for the fact that the regime there is currently enabling Iran's attempt to obtain nuclear weapons?

Posted by Phil Fraering 2006-12-04 15:39|| 2006-12-04 15:39|| Front Page Top

#31 Who made that claim, Phil?

Putty is our enemy. Livinenko was probably (certainly?) no friend.

I don't see anyone in On/Off mode.

Posted by .com 2006-12-04 15:46|| 2006-12-04 15:46|| Front Page Top

#32 Except you.

Posted by .com 2006-12-04 16:05|| 2006-12-04 16:05|| Front Page Top

#33
How does one get on international flights with something so radioactive and not get caught?

Seems to me that a TSA-like geiger counter would be basic stuff to get bad guys and their goods.

Posted by Master of Obvious 2006-12-04 17:16|| 2006-12-04 17:16|| Front Page Top

#34 How does one get on international flights with something so radioactive and not get caught?

Maybe not so easily now but, for some insight, read this article from today's Helsingin Sanomat: Radioactive cobalt in luggage hold delays Finnair flight from Moscow

Posted by mrp 2006-12-04 18:10|| 2006-12-04 18:10|| Front Page Top

#35 .com:

It's the whole situation that the discussion thread's going to be a bunch of people standing around discussing whether he converted and whether that means he deserved it as if it were materially relevant to the case.

As I said earlier, the first "wave" of stories was about how Polonium-210 was really readily available, except, well, when you look at the details, it isn't.

The "Litvinenko was a Moslem" story just looks like the second layer of an onion.

The "work accident" bit looks like the third layer. Of course, you need to ignore that you need a reactor and significant facilities to manufacture and extract significant amounts of the stuff.

I wonder if the West isn't being subtly told... "you have to support the Mubaraks, the Musharrafs, all the dictators, both with what they want to do to their citizens at home, AND their citizens in the west, OR... there's going to be another 'incident' where 'those darn jihadi extremists' will get their hands on anthrax, or polonium, and it winds up someplace where it could cause a lot more than one death, or a couple dozen casualties in mailrooms..."

"Nice Biosphere, be a shame if something happened to it."

And everyone wants to concentrate, 33 messages strong, on whether or not Litvinenko was a Moslem and therefore a traitor to the west or something.

It's all useless.

Master of Obvious: If it's an alpha emitter, it's easily shielded.

And although it was on the other thread, Glenmore talked about the "work accident" theory. So what are the chances that Al Qaeda gets its hands on a lethal amount of radioactive material and only manages to kill a disgruntled former KGB agent?

Finally: If terrorism is a game of "let's you and him fight" then who benefits from the current battle between Islam and the West?

Who benefits from the Arab/Israeli conflict?

Who benefits from a western view that the Moslem world is a unified bloc behind the dictators that rule them (except, of course, for those extremists who think the dictator is a weakling and try to blow him up, but upon closer examination always seem to be in a group they sponsor indirectly. Like Al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia... they're attacking us, killing our civilians, because we supposedly support the corrupt Saud Dynasty. When was the last time they actually attacked someone in the Saud Dynasty?)

That particular pattern, BTW, goes back to the Boxer Rebellion in China.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2006-12-04 19:06|| 2006-12-04 19:06|| Front Page Top

#36 The comments discuss the article topic:
Radioactive spy Islam convert?

You're throwing a shit fit for no reason other than you have an excess of straw and feel like a snort.

Posted by .com 2006-12-04 19:33|| 2006-12-04 19:33|| Front Page Top

23:54 .com
23:48 Zenster
23:40 Zenster
23:30 Anonymoose
23:12 ed
23:07 ex-lib
23:06 KBK
23:03 ed
23:02 .com
22:57 Zenster
22:56 trailing wife
22:55 49 Pan
22:52 Zenster
22:50 ex-lib
22:48 Zenster
22:46 ex-lib
22:45 .com
22:44 ed
22:43 Laurence of the Rats
22:42 BA
22:41 Zenster
22:39 ed
22:38 .com
22:33 gromgoru