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2006-09-22 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

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Posted by Fred 2006-09-22 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11135 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Sure, they'll agree to recognize Israel; in English, while denying it in Arabic. Then the EU will resume giving them cash - which will go straight to buying weapons and building bombs.

Posted by DMFD 2006-09-22 00:05|| 2006-09-22 00:05|| Front Page Top

#2 As soon as they get what they think they want they will 'recognize' that Israel needs to be destroyed. Better pin them down on this one, including clauses saying "OK to arrest entire government" etc. if they try to weasel out. Now to define 'weasel out' . . . .

Posted by gorb 2006-09-22 00:55|| 2006-09-22 00:55|| Front Page Top

#3 This is pure unadulterated horseshit. There has been no unequivocal recognition of Israel by Hamas. Without that, there should not be any financial aid released. These maggots have played this game for so long that it is simply unreal. How these politicians can believe that they have gotten away with any sort of victory is like the way a smirking carnival mark walks off with the giant grand prize Teddy bear after blowing over $200.⁰⁰ on the ring toss to win it.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-09-22 03:11|| 2006-09-22 03:11|| Front Page Top

#4 Oh joy! Oh rapture!

Posted by gromgoru 2006-09-22 06:15|| 2006-09-22 06:15|| Front Page Top

#5 I smell the end of this "state" of "palestine".

Posted by newc">newc 2006-09-22 06:23|| 2006-09-22 06:23|| Front Page Top

#6 Hamas has already come out and said they won't recognize Israel in this new "unity" government. Instead they want a 5-10 year truce.

Like that will happen....

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-09-22 07:10|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ] 2006-09-22 07:10|| Front Page Top

#7 #3 How these politicians can believe that they have gotten away with any sort of victory ...

Well, that's because we're so much smarter than the other politicians, you moron! Wossamatter wid you?

Posted by This Politician 2006-09-22 08:34|| 2006-09-22 08:34|| Front Page Top

#8 Does everyone (anyone) read these articles?

"Abbas' moderate Fatah faction struggles to win agreement from the governing Hamas to recognize Israel in negotiations to form a national unity government. The militant Islamic group Hamas won elections in January and has refused to recognize Israel, end violence and honor past agreements with Israel.

There are those in Palestine who'd rather do business with Israel and get rich and lead normal, than blow them up and have all this trouble. Duh.

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 11:07|| 2006-09-22 11:07|| Front Page Top

#9 normal lives

I need some coffee . . .

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 11:08|| 2006-09-22 11:08|| Front Page Top

#10 I sure did, ex-lib, right after I read the article I've cited. And your point is??

Notice how the original link does not have anyone from Hamas actually agreeing with the content of the article. Every other player in this sorry mess has a representative making all the appropriate noises. There may be some Palestinians who are starting to get a clue that maybe, just maybe, living with the Jews next door and making some money isn't a bad way to live, but it still hasn't reached any kind of critical mass to effect a meaningful change in their government or the way it acts.

Abbas can (and will) say anything at this point. Sorry if I don't take his word for what an opposition party is willing to do. I'd rather hear it from Hamas. All they offer is a hudna. They are just trying to buy some time and maybe convince someone to give them $ without backing down from their original stand. I don't consider that progress at all.

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-09-22 11:29|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ] 2006-09-22 11:29|| Front Page Top

#11 What's the rest of their plan ?
They will recognize Israel, then what ? Rebuild the farms and join the world's produce market ? Remove anti-Israeli brainwashing from their schools ? Disarm ? Become productive ? What ?

Posted by wxjames 2006-09-22 12:12|| 2006-09-22 12:12|| Front Page Top

#12 They will recognize Israel, then what ?

Then the money pours in from Europe, of course.

Posted by lotp 2006-09-22 12:25|| 2006-09-22 12:25|| Front Page Top

#13 US money too. Even with the embargo, the US is still providing $245 million jizya this year.

Posted by ed 2006-09-22 12:56|| 2006-09-22 12:56|| Front Page Top

#14 # 6 Instead they want a 5-10 year truce.

# 10 All they offer is a hudna.

Glad to see no one's pulling the wool over our Swamp Gal's eyes. You had me worried for a second there with post # 6.

For once and all, people need to realize that the depths of Muslim perfidy absolutely demand the very worst cynicism from anyone forced to deal with them. All promises must be construed as false. All contracts must be looked upon as breached. All assurances of peace must simply be laughed at. This is especially so with respect to the Palestinians. They have consistently broken every promise and agreement entered into during the enitre peace process. Israel knows this and that is why they continue to kick Palestinian ass on every occasion they can. All taqqiya, all the time.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-09-22 13:51|| 2006-09-22 13:51|| Front Page Top

#15 I'll bet no one saw this coming.

Hamas rejects Abbas plan to recognize Israel

Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas said Friday he will not head a government that recognizes Israel, striking a potential blow to efforts set up a more moderate ruling coalition.

All taqqiya, all the time.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-09-22 14:05|| 2006-09-22 14:05|| Front Page Top

#16 The Israelis, at least those on the conservative side of the aisle, have the required cynicism Zenster. And when they deal with that cynicism in their negotiations the rest of the gullible world thinks the Israelis are assholes. In fact it is the rest of the gullible world that are the marooons.

Posted by remoteman 2006-09-22 14:34|| 2006-09-22 14:34|| Front Page Top

#17 "Unity Government Will Recognize Israel" sez the headlines.

"Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?" sez I.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2006-09-22 14:45|| 2006-09-22 14:45|| Front Page Top

#18 Just where is Unity? Is it next to that town where Jaws went crazy?

Posted by tu3031 2006-09-22 15:06|| 2006-09-22 15:06|| Front Page Top

#19 "Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas said Friday he will not head a government that recognizes Israel, striking a potential blow to efforts set up a more moderate ruling coalition."

For Abbas to announce ANY recognition of Israel is a death wish where he comes from--unless we are maneuvering behind the scenes to help further define Hamas as uncooperative (as in redefining just who is and who is not the problem in Palestine, as in it's not the jooos) for the general public and for military reasons--in which case Abbas is going along with it. If so, hope we'll hold up our end of whatever bargain was struck.

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 17:01|| 2006-09-22 17:01|| Front Page Top

#20 No matter what, if we deal with only Abbas and not Hamas too, we lose. Besides, Hamas gets brownie points at home for looking "uncompromising". Look at the suffering they are causing their own people. Are the Palestinians blaming them for their troubles, or are they blaming a conspiracy of Jews/Americans for their current difficulties? It's the latter. They still haven't gotten the whole cause=effect thingy.

We don't get credit for following through on any promises. They will conveniently forget the ones we deliver on and forever remember the ones we didn't come through with, regardless of whatever justification we may have for not doing so. They will continue to spew their hate, indoctrinate their young to think of being a martyr as the highest good, and dream of ways to drive Israel into the sea.

No thanks, ex-lib. They know what our conditions have been from the start, and that is, recognition of Israel's right to exist. They wanna sit in the corner and hold their breath till they turn blue, stamping their feet, fine with me.

When they finally grow up, then we can deal with them. Not before.

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-09-22 17:47|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ] 2006-09-22 17:47|| Front Page Top

#21 "We don't get credit for following through on any promises."

Right, but that wasn't my point.

I meant for the sake of Abbas, I hope we follow through on whatever backup we've (perhaps) promised in connection with his speaking in support of recognition of Israel--cuz' he's going to be totally DEAD--like so many other moderate Palestinian leaders who have dared to go against the tide.

Just because I try to focus attention toward the existence of Moslems who aren't down with the Satan/West thingy, doesn't mean I don't understand what's going on. I've been on the Burg for four years.

The problem is, it's the insane Moslem mullahs and political leaders that are actually pushing this toward war (with Russia and China waiting quietly in the wings). And why is that? Differing theories exist. But what is not arguable is that these world leaders and their idiot minions know very well what they're doing in terms of manipulating both the right and the left in America their direction and toward their (ultimate) power strategy. In politics you've got to wonder what's beneath the surface.

Frankly, I don't want to play into their hands since they trying SO hard to create a REACTION from us. We should stay in control and continue to go after the hardliners.

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 18:02|| 2006-09-22 18:02|| Front Page Top

#22 Just because I try to focus attention toward the existence of Moslems who aren't down with the Satan/West thingy, doesn't mean I don't understand what's going on. I've been on the Burg for four years.

Same here. I've been Desert Blondie before I moved from Arizona to Florida and became Swamp Blondie. And I have stated before that I'm not ready to go along with some of the "kill 'em all" talk that has been ratcheting up here lately. Please don't patronize me.

Somehow I doubt that Abbas has turned into the Palestinian "Menachem Begin" (aka former terrorist turned peacemaker). If you want to put me down as another cynical Gen X'er, fine. Guilty as charged.

I just don't see right now how he can deliver on anything he promises. Maybe I missed something, but what has he managed to bring about that he said he would? Talk is cheap, especially in the ME.

I don't want to play into their hands, either. They have a long history of saying one thing in English and something completely different in Arabic for domestic consumption. They also have a history of promising the moon and ignoring every single thing they swore they would carry out (aka Oslo).

Quite frankly, he can screech "Kumbaya" all he wants from a compound in Ramallah, but if he can't deliver a single friggin' thing, so what? It's wasted cash and effort we could be spending on someone else, or a bunch of someone elses, who could. Find him, her, or the gang of them that can, and stop wasting time with this guy if he can't deliver anything but empty words.

(And some of youse guys here on the 'burg don't think a liberal can look at the bottom line and demand results.... ;) )

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-09-22 18:59|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ] 2006-09-22 18:59|| Front Page Top

#23 "Please don't patronize me"?

WTF? Where are you coming from and what are you talking about?

I MEANT that I "get it" about how bad the muzzies are (and since you're Desert Blondie I'm presuming you already know that). I'm not a dumb-dumb peacenik when it comes to Arabs or Moslems. Sheesh.

Also, when I said "Just because I try to focus attention toward the existence of Moslems who aren't down with the Satan/West thingy, doesn't mean I don't understand what's going on," I'm commenting on the absolutist views regarding the advocation for the extermination of the Moslem people, circulating around here lately. I've been anti-terror and not too fond of the muzzies, to put it mildly, from day one, but there's entirely too much knee-jerk from the group of late, and that always puts you in a bad position. (If you play poker you know what I'm talking about.) Sure, we have to be ready to do what it takes, and it might have really bad consequences on many innocent people who are trapped in these countries controlled by crazies, but it's not something to run toward with open arms. That's all I'm saying. And I'm getting a lot of flack for even "Daring" to suggest some moderation and analysis when it comes to this conflict. When I see everyone charging off in EXACTLY the direction Mr. Ahminahajib in Iran wants the West to go, I get a little worried. Iran can do things some of the other Moslem countries only dream of. And he can't wait. And neither can they. So, if we respond with "imperial overreach" and spread ourselves too thin, politically and militarily, it will prove disasterous.

Next, I NEVER said Abbas has turned into a "Palestinian 'Menachem Begin' peacemaker," and I don't see how he can deliver anything he promises either, considering his situation and lack of real power, even if he wanted to, which I think he does, but he's outgunned--which is why something else is going on behind the scenes, or he wouldn't have claimed that they were willing to recognize Israel's legitimacy. Either it's a ruse or we're backing him in order to define and target. It's just an opinion.

Finally, I have no idea whatsoever about "And some of youse guys here on the 'burg don't think a liberal can look at the bottom line and demand results." What does that even mean?

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 19:27|| 2006-09-22 19:27|| Front Page Top

#24

Idiot nym-jacking jackoff
sinktrapped.

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 19:43|| 2006-09-22 19:43|| Front Page Top

#25 # 24 is not ex-lib.

In fact, since some idiots are using my name lately, I'll not post under ex-lib anymore. So if anyone posts under ex-lib, it's the mole.

How's THAT for patronizing? (Hey, it's probably antiwar)

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 19:55|| 2006-09-22 19:55|| Front Page Top

#26 I'll follow this post under ex-lib, but that's it.

Some people really need attention, I think.

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 19:56|| 2006-09-22 19:56|| Front Page Top

#27 Oy. Where to start?

Look, not everything in that post was directed at you, especially that last line. It was more of an inside joke towards some of the conservative guys on this board. Why else do you think it was in parentheses? Trust me, they know exactly what I was driving at.

Ok, maybe I misinterpreted your attitude at the end of that "I've been here four years" remark. If so, I apologize. But it still came across to me as incredibly patronizing, as if I was just some ditz who stumbled across this site last week. Hence the remark.

And lastly, the remark about Begin is mine and mine alone. I never claimed you made it. I was using it as an example of precisely what he is *NOT*, namely a bad guy who has seen the error of his past ways and is trying to leave a decent legacy behind at the end of his life. Abbas isn't that kind of guy. He also is a freakin' joke and can't do a blessed thing to change the situation.

I personally think he's hoping to get something for doing absolutely nothing, so he'll mouth all the nice things he thinks we want to hear. He did it before, he'll do it again, and we aren't going to get anywhere until we deal with someone who can actually bring about change. He gets a shiv or gets blown up, no big loss. He's been working on that kind of payback for a long time, and it couldn't happen to a nicer bag o' crap. That's all.

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-09-22 20:41|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ] 2006-09-22 20:41|| Front Page Top

#28 So, if all muzzies are not the enemy, and those innocent muzzies act, talk, and dress just like the enemy, what should be done ?
1. Go about your business then if attacked, fight back, bleed and die.
2. Totally avoid all muzzies.
3. Make all muzzies strip to their sox before letting them within 50 yards of you.
4. Ask them if they are on a jihad.
5. Tell them you are a muzzie on jihad and they must leave if they are innocent.
6. Gather evidence at any bomb scene, and try to match DNA samples.
7. Tell an allan joke and watch if they laugh.
8. Show them an allan cartoon and check their reaction.
9. Frisk everyone you come in contact with searching for weapons, etc.
10. Ask them what is the main reason they will not convert to another religion.
11. Wait till prayer time and when they lay out their little prayer rug, try to smell the gun oil on it.

None of the above seem efficient enough for everyday life. Does anyone have any ideas ? I'm stuck on kill 'em all.

Posted by wxjames 2006-09-22 20:48|| 2006-09-22 20:48|| Front Page Top

#29 It's okay SB. I think tensions are running high on the boards, especially because of certain agitators who set up long, important sounding diatribes or short quippy things that stir emotions, and seem to have a semblance of logic, but are actually well-versed manipulations. Don't know if that makes sense, but this directions and those doing it are setting up a hierarchy of social dominance and a kind of dogma for their adherents.

That said--no, I was complimenting Rantburg as an educational resource when I said "I've been here 4 years." I wasn't trying to say anything but that (just read it with a different tone and you'll get it). : ) I also was letting other readers know that I'm not a softie.

take care

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 20:52|| 2006-09-22 20:52|| Front Page Top

#30 wx: as long as they're not threatening the US or US interests, they can be as stupid as they want to be. Now the tough part. Right, if the governments of these countries are posing a threat to us, everyone in their country might have to pay the price (which is too bad and unfair). The only other thing is sanctions, coalitions, or arming the resistance movements in their countries. The problem with the ME is the oil and the huge capital that brings them to play these games. Same with Chavez. BTW, your list was hysterical and points out the utter insanity and frustration all of us are feeling. Thanks.

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 20:57|| 2006-09-22 20:57|| Front Page Top

#31 Does anyone have any ideas ? I'm stuck on kill 'em all.

Well then hop to it! What're you waiting for?!?

Posted by Rafael 2006-09-22 21:16|| 2006-09-22 21:16|| Front Page Top

#32 I don't want to play into their hands, either. They have a long history of saying one thing in English and something completely different in Arabic for domestic consumption. They also have a history of promising the moon and ignoring every single thing they swore they would carry out (aka Oslo).

Quite frankly, he can screech "Kumbaya" all he wants from a compound in Ramallah, but if he can't deliver a single friggin' thing, so what? It's wasted cash and effort we could be spending on someone else, or a bunch of someone elses, who could. Find him, her, or the gang of them that can, and stop wasting time with this guy if he can't deliver anything but empty words.

Bingo, Blondie. Long ago Abbas demonstrated that he is merely the same old (sour) wine in a new bottle. The fact that he has access to the Israeli prisoner Shalit and yet does nothing but prolong the hostage situation is a firm indicator of what to expect.

In his speech where he, for once, looked as if he was beginning to place blame upon the Palestinians, instead of the Jews, he nonetheless refers to the rockets sent into Israeli territory as "pipes" instead of calling them what they actually are and taking true responsibility.

Finally, That Abbas ever adopted his nom de guerre of "Abu Mazen" only goes to show that he continues to pander to the absolute worst side of Palestinians and their politics, namely, that of violence and war.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-09-22 21:32|| 2006-09-22 21:32|| Front Page Top

#33 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-22 19:43|| 2006-09-22 19:43|| Front Page Top

19:43 ex-lib
23:48 Zenster
23:39 Joe of the Jungle
23:39 Texas Redneck
23:26 Swamp Blondie
23:25 Texas Redneck
23:25 Lone Ranger
23:17 Flomoter Ulolush5791
23:14 CrazyFool
23:14 bombay
23:02 Zenster
23:00 Joe of the Jungle
23:00 Zenster
22:57 Zenster
22:52 FOTSGreg
22:50 MagnonMan
22:49 MagnonMan
22:49 Zenster
22:45 Zenster
22:43 FOTSGreg
22:39 Zenster
22:38 FOTSGreg
22:34 Zenster
22:31 49 Pan