Article

2006-07-21 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

Israeli warplanes fire three missiles on Palestinian military site in Rafah

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Posted by Fred 2006-07-21 00:05|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Palestinian national security site

Funny that, as they're not a nation and have no security.

Posted by Baba Tutu 2006-07-21 00:58|| 2006-07-21 00:58|| Front Page Top

#2 Any Rantburg experts on engineering, rather than combat, aspects of dealing with tunnels? For example, even though tunnels are cleverly hidden to the naked eye, wouldn't technology for oil drilling or mining detect them? What kind of explosives are best for destroying them? Is the damage permanent or is it just a case of sealing off the entrances in which case the enemy can burrow back to them later?

Posted by Odysseus 2006-07-21 09:59|| 2006-07-21 09:59|| Front Page Top

#3 I'm no expect on engineering, but I would have to think that sonar would find these tunnels. As for getting rid of them, I would say punch a hole into them from above every 10 yards, drop an explosive in each hole and bang.

Posted by Mike N. 2006-07-21 10:11|| 2006-07-21 10:11|| Front Page Top

#4 ground penetrating radar works, especially if te soil is fairly uniform, with little density changes

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-07-21 10:39|| 2006-07-21 10:39|| Front Page Top

#5 With the Mediterranean so close, I'd think some sort of flooding might be feasible. It's fun to think about, at least.

Posted by WhiteCollarRedneck 2006-07-21 12:18|| 2006-07-21 12:18|| Front Page Top

#6 Anyway WCR, it sounds Biblical.

Posted by JohnQC 2006-07-21 12:20|| 2006-07-21 12:20|| Front Page Top

#7 Did a quick look at the geology of Lebanon. Southern part of the country is limestone overlaying sandstone. They have a lot of quarries to extract the limestone for building and to make cement. This means they've got a lot of expertise in-country for digging tunnels in the relatively soft limestone. If the layers are as thick and fine grained as reported, you wouldn't need much shoring for tunnels. Perfect for digging deep bunkers, with the waste rock dumped in quarries where it wouldn't raise any eyebrows.

Posted by Steve">Steve 2006-07-21 12:34|| 2006-07-21 12:34|| Front Page Top

#8 It's possible to do 'seismic' surveys in which data is collected from an array of deployed sensors ('geophones') while shock waves (from an explosive or even vibration from a nearby highway)propagate through the earth. The data can then be analyzed for tunnel detection, as well as a general understanding of the relative densities of the underlying rock and soil. It is tricky to analyze the data though.

Posted by JAB 2006-07-21 13:05|| 2006-07-21 13:05|| Front Page Top

#9 This is gaza though steve, heavier than air immobilising agents, its the only way to be sure.

Posted by chu chi 2006-07-21 13:15|| 2006-07-21 13:15|| Front Page Top

#10 The Hariri family controls a lot of the cement production in Lebanon. The Syrians are also way involved in cement production. Which may be one reason why Hariri got killed, and one or several reasons why China and Russia won't side against the Baathists.

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2006-07-21 13:25|| 2006-07-21 13:25|| Front Page Top

#11 The Party of Allah (Hezbolla) have lots of tunnels and bunkers since they had plenty of time to prepare. BTW, Lebanon is not a country or state and deserves to be dusted as a terrorist shell, sadly.

Posted by SamAdamsky 2006-07-21 13:39|| 2006-07-21 13:39|| Front Page Top

#12 Why would Russia and China prefer Baathist cement to Hariri cement, Seafarious?

Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-21 15:16|| 2006-07-21 15:16|| Front Page Top

#13 Why would Russia and China prefer Baathist cement to Hariri cement

Perhaps Hariri wanted cash while the Baathist's would take weapons in trade? I remember Hariri was supposed to have major connections in the Saudi construction business as well.

Posted by Steve">Steve 2006-07-21 16:15|| 2006-07-21 16:15|| Front Page Top

#14 This is gaza though steve

Well, the underlying rock strata is pretty much the same in Israel. I was there in 1984 and it all looked like the same rock formations. Went on tour in Jerulsalem and went down in old tunnel under old city. It was all limestone there as well. Same in southern Lebanon when we went to the Beufort Castle with the IDF. Looked a lot like New Mexico and Arizona.

Posted by Steve">Steve 2006-07-21 16:20|| 2006-07-21 16:20|| Front Page Top

#15 My opinion was the Syrians took out Hariri without consulting the Russians and Chinese and did it solely because he was a rare Lebanese politico no longer willing to be one of their pawns, rather than for any business (cement) reasons. Fortunately, it boomeranged on them because Hariri's patrons, the Saudis, were riled by the assassination enough to team up with us and the French to push them out (like when the mob offs an investigative journalist or prosecutor and only draws more heat). Another factor was that the Iran-Syria alliance put Syria in the Shiite camp (Syria's Alawite minority is quasi-Shia and controls the government and military rather than the Sunni majority) and the Saudis are seeing in Iraq how the Iranian controlled Shiites like to deal with Sunni adversaries.... Thanks to all for the comments on how to detect the tunnels; anything more on optimum permanent destruction methods?

Posted by Odysseus 2006-07-21 19:37|| 2006-07-21 19:37|| Front Page Top

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