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2005-12-19 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by Steve White 2005-12-19 00:32|| || Front Page|| [11132 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I concur Steve W.....B

/ifn he would stuck the dims harder and really twisted hard,...A or A+

Posted by Spembelov">Spembelov 2005-12-19 03:54|| 2005-12-19 03:54|| Front Page Top

#2 I think I see a deeper strategy. The US is ready to begin a phased withdrawl. However, the democrats are trying to take credit for it by claiming that they "forced Bush to do it."

Bush's counter to this is faux pessimism, to pay attention to the few problems rather than the great successes. This means if the democrats try to grab credit, they will still be labled as "defeatist", but Bush can gradually draw down the forces no longer needed anyway.

This is a very good strategy.

There isn't going to be a ticker-tape parade in New York City anyway, those days are past. We would have to delay soldiers being re-united with their families and fly them in from out of State to do so.

We also don't want to withdraw from Iraq completely. We will want to leave at least a division there for at least 10 years, with a Status of Forces agreement like we had with Germany. Eventually, we might have a permanent Corps headquarters located there.

So, no great declaration of "Victory", but just a drop in the violence and expense until the deployment becomes too dull to mention.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-12-19 09:44|| 2005-12-19 09:44|| Front Page Top

#3 A tickertape parade in New York City would be nice, but not not as nice as individual counties and cities hosting local parades featuring hometown soldiers home for the holidays, like we just did here in Georgia when our units came home. The whole point of fighting terrorists in Iraq is to make sure they didn't have to fight terrorists here on the homefront, so I think the locals cheering and thanking the locals who fought for them, and their country, does everyone some good.

Let those who cheered their kids when they won a highschool football game cheer for their kids when they come home from Iraq.

Posted by Ptah">Ptah 2005-12-19 10:29|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2005-12-19 10:29|| Front Page Top

#4 Tell em "W." ... and keep telling them, over and over and over.

Posted by Besoeker 2005-12-19 10:44|| 2005-12-19 10:44|| Front Page Top

#5 President Bush lives is "dream world" in which reality is suspended on his failing Iraq policy and War. His defenders continue to buy into his propaganda, which labels dissenters as "cut and run defeatist".

I believe dissenters to his policies are showing "common sense" in trying to get some definition to just what President Bush says is "total victory", when will Iraqi's take more resonsibilty for the defense of their country and when can the U.S. military start to redeploy it's troops from Iraq.

Rather than answer these basic questions President Bush continues to recycle the same tired rhetoric to "stay the course" with an
open checkbook that is costing billions $$$ and U.S.soldiers lives in a cause that really isnt doing anything to stop future terrorist attacks against the domestic U.S., the bottom line being that nothing going on in Iraq is going to prevent another domestic attack on the U.S. by terrorist.

Just a reminder to President Bush and his defenders: Bush states that "the terrorist would be on the offense and headed our way" if not for the Iraqi war. Someone needs to remind the President Bush that the FBI and CIA testified before Congress last year that terrorist cells are ALREADY IN THE U.S. AS WE SPEAK.

Finally here is a quote from Conservative Pundit Bruce Fein:

"Exit Strategy"
by Bruce Fein

"The Bush administration trumpets a delusional exit strategy for Iraq: an orderly departure of troops after entrenching a democratic and unified Iraq capable of suppressing a raging terrorist insurgency.

That Uptopian aim would keep U.S. troops in Iraq with mounting casualties for the ages. The least bad eartbound departure plan for the post-Sadaam quagmire would partition Iraq between Kurds, Sunnis, and Shi'ites. Partition would stll make the Iraqi war a modest success whearas President Bush's "stay the course" mantra promises flaming disaster"

This is a staunch conservative writing this, NOT a liberal democrat and I totally agree with him. (I dont believe i just said that.)

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 12:11|| 2005-12-19 12:11|| Front Page Top

#6 Bruce Fein...never heard of him oh but I'm sure his conservative credentials are impeccable. 2 words "utopian" and "quagmire"....that's lefty speak. Is Germanay a quagmire? Japan?

Posted by Rex Mundi 2005-12-19 12:38|| 2005-12-19 12:38|| Front Page Top

#7 raging terrorist insurgency...pfeh, what drivel. LA, you just keep on believing whatever you want. The terrorists are getting their asses kicked, the Iraqi military and police force is gaining strength by the day, and leading more and more of the fight. We and the Iraqis are clearly winning this war and all you see is failure. You can keep banging that drum all you like, but those of us here look at things like facts, facts that make your idiotic claims seem, well, idiotic.

Posted by remoteman 2005-12-19 12:46|| 2005-12-19 12:46|| Front Page Top

#8 Don't feed the trolls.

Posted by SR-71">SR-71 2005-12-19 12:47|| 2005-12-19 12:47|| Front Page Top

#9 LA, you're starting to sound like the New York Times when they wring their hands about the prison population being at an all time high, yet they can't make the connection that this could possibly be a reason why crime rates are at all time lows.

Posted by tu3031 2005-12-19 12:51|| 2005-12-19 12:51|| Front Page Top

#10 Left Angle,
Although for you and the KOS that obviously thinks for you, "conservative" is a catch-all phrase for anyone who doesn't toe the Democratic/Green party line. Of course a fiscal conservative could possibly be against the war. And a social liberal could be for it. Repeating KOS when he quotes Fein doesn't mean anything. Fein has always been against the war. Why is a "new" article by him expected to be any different?
Do you actually mean that fiscal conservatives have more credibility when they speak than liberals?

Posted by Urako 2005-12-19 12:54|| 2005-12-19 12:54|| Front Page Top

#11 Here's the link to the Bruce Fein article:

"Exit Strategy:
by Bruce Fein

www.washtimes.com/commentary/20051128-091730-7298r.htm

He is a well known staunch conservative pundit.
this article was published in the stauncly conservative Washington Times.

I think that repubs/conservatives will find it interesting that this is coming from one of their
own.

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 13:58|| 2005-12-19 13:58|| Front Page Top

#12 tu & remoteman:

a honest question:

"Do you really believe that "victory" in Iraq ans spreading democracy to the middle east will
stop another domestic attack on the U.S. in the future and quell anti-amercanism in that region?

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 14:00|| 2005-12-19 14:00|| Front Page Top

#13 Yes. What's your strategy, LA? Station a Marine every five feet along the Atlantic seaboard?

Posted by Matt 2005-12-19 14:28|| 2005-12-19 14:28|| Front Page Top

#14 Matt:

Care to explain why you think that?

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 14:43|| 2005-12-19 14:43|| Front Page Top

#15 I was attempting wryly to imply that you favored a defensive rather than an offensive strategy. Be that as it may, how do you think we should go about preventing future attacks on the US?

Posted by Matt 2005-12-19 14:52|| 2005-12-19 14:52|| Front Page Top

#16 LA, care to share with us exactly what you would do? We already know what you think is a bad idea: pretty much anything that Bush does. Now give us a concrete example of what you think would be an effective solution.

Posted by BH 2005-12-19 14:59|| 2005-12-19 14:59|| Front Page Top

#17 The way I see it, 50 or 60 thousand of these dead assholes on their own home turf might have a teensy, tiny bit to do with no attacks here since 9/11.
But the main reason? I think Mahmoud Al-Potentate of Insert Islamic Republic here has to look at the situation and say "If I bankroll or support in any way an attack on the Great Satan's home turf, they will come here and I will either end up living in a cave, eating prison food until I'm hung, or die a quick and fiery death. Think I'll keep a short leash on my brave Jihadi warriors."
The only folks that don't seem to get that are the Iranians, which I predict will be to their great and fatal regret.

Posted by tu3031 2005-12-19 15:16|| 2005-12-19 15:16|| Front Page Top

#18 Left Angle: in follow-up to your question in #12, YES! Bringing representative democracy (and the prerequisites for that -- personal liberty, respect for the rule of law, respect for the rights of minorities, respect for the rights of women, and capitalism) to Iraq will definitely change the region.

It already IS changing the region. The Lebanese have thrown out their Syrian masters. Afghanistan inagurated a parliament today. The Palestinians, of all people, have had two elections and are about to have a third. Kuwait, Bahrain and Oman are instituting reforms to include women in the political process. Reforms are going forward in Morocco. And Libya fessed up to its part in the great Khan scheme for an Islamic bomb.

Instapundit has a short note today about a poll done in Pakistan. The people there are more pro-American than they've ever been, thanks to our humanitarian aid and our willingness to free others. Opinons elsewhere in the region are changing. Even the Iranian people are pro-American, even as their government is virulently anti-American.

Oh, and by the way, we're killing people who want to kill us, and doing so in high numbers. At some point Mahmoud the Jihadi is going to decide that jihad is a little bit too dangerous and go take a class in computer programming instead.

So, again, the answer is yes: what's happened in Iraq, combined with what we've done the last four years throughout region, is spreading democracy and making us safer.

The evidence is there for you to see.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2005-12-19 15:35|| 2005-12-19 15:35|| Front Page Top

#19 I think you've got it tu3031,
With the Iraqis quickly approaching autonomy, Iran should be thinking about the future. But nut-boy is to busy looking down the well for the 12th imam to hear the train until it is two feet from him.

By the way why do you guys let liberal angler get you going?

Posted by bigjim-ky 2005-12-19 15:37|| 2005-12-19 15:37|| Front Page Top

#20 Yes. What's your strategy, LA? Station a Marine every five feet along the Atlantic seaboard?

We're stretched too thin, we'd have to draft the homeless.

Posted by Heartless Spemble1219 2005-12-19 15:43|| 2005-12-19 15:43|| Front Page Top

#21 Matt, BH & Steve White:

Believe it or not I agree with a conservative on how best to deal with Iraq.

Here's a link:

"Exit Strategy"
by Bruce Fein

www.washtimes.com/commentary/20051128-091730-7298r.htm

check it out, tell me what you think.

IMHO, Since the CIA & FBI have testified before Congress that terrorist cells are currently in the U.S. as we speak. I would re-double our surveillance domestically for those threats first of all. Al Qaeda/Osama bin Laden are the prime enemy to me, those are the people I would go after. Finally, I find it very strange that 17 of the 19 (i believe) terrorist that struck on 9-11-01 were from Saudi Arabia, and yet absolutely nothing has been done to explore that breech by the Bush administration and one has to wonder why.

Another thing: with the pourous borders that the U.S. has and millions of illegal aliens pouring into the country, let alone the legal ones, exacly how does the U.S. keep up surveillance
and know the motives of these people?

While I think many proposed domestic attacks may be stopped here in the U.S. I remain pessimistic that one will eventually happen and on a much larger scale than 9-11-01. I just dont think that anything going on in Iraq will have any effect on that should it happen, in a prevention sense.

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 15:54|| 2005-12-19 15:54|| Front Page Top

#22 Finally, I find it very strange that 17 of the 19 (i believe) terrorist that struck on 9-11-01 were from Saudi Arabia, and yet absolutely nothing has been done to explore that breech by the Bush administration and one has to wonder why.

If you think our actions in Iraq haven't been directed in part at the Saudis, and haven't had an effect, I invite you to learn a little more about the royal family, its factions and the states of its economy right now (oil windfall profits notwithstanding).

Those who actually lead, rather than just armchair general, have to look at 2nd and 3rd order effects of their actions. A direct strike of some kind on the Saudis would collapse the world economy -- and by the way, it would NOT be the US that would suffer the most from such a collapse. The very poor worldwide would be hit hardest and many fledgling or even more established democracies would be weakened or would fall.

Instead, the Bush administration has taken a sophisticated approach to its actions. Open a map. Find Afghanistan, with Pakistan on one side and Iran on the other. Look east to India, where Rice has established better relations than we've had in a long time. Look west to Iraq. Look northwest to Israel, and see how Iran, Syria, the extremists in Pakistan are systematically being pressured from multiple directions at once.

Check out the statistics on oil production in Iraq despite the sabotage attacks. Check out the statistics on the declining oil fields of the Saudi Kingdom.

Ask yourself how the Wahabbist faction of the royal family feels about a strong Shiite presence in the Iraqi government. And then go read about the Shiite population in the Saudi towns that border Iraq ... and how those towns are situated with regard to the oil fields.

Or ask .com to explain that part to you based on his time there working in the oil industry.

Then add in events in Lebanon, peeling that country away from Syria and Hizboallah and hence from Iran.

And consider that we had a major command post in Kuwait and have moved it to another Gulf country that depends on us for its protection in the region.

That should begin to paint the picture for you.

Posted by lotp 2005-12-19 16:04|| 2005-12-19 16:04|| Front Page Top

#23 ltop:

I hear what youre saying and the bottom line of what youre saying is that:

"Its all about OIL"..

whenever someone on the left makes that argument,
they are trashed by the right. Michael Moore made such an argument in Farenhiet 9-11 about the ties between the Saudis and the Bush family and yet he was lambasted for it. Pratically everything you just wrote confirms that OIL has a great deal to do with Bush's War on Terror strategy.

The fact that 17 if the 19 attackers on 9-11-01 were from Saudi Arabia should not be made trivial as it is by those on the right/bush backers.

I believe that there is something going on in that country that is disturbingly anti-american and Bush wont touch it because of the OIL and his ties to the powers that be in that country.

In other words Sadaam Hussien and Iraq are just convienient scapegoats.

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 16:20|| 2005-12-19 16:20|| Front Page Top

#24 1. Re Fein

Yup, hes some kinda paleocon type, whos real hepped up about the Supreme court, Kelo, and disbeleives in any real change in the middle east. needless to say, I dont find him persuasive.

2. The speech = well I didnt think it was as strong as the morning talks, but then I think this was the version for the folks who dont follow this stuff closely. So overall id say it was good. Should have been doing this (going into detail, warning how hard it would be, admitting mistakes) months ago though. But better late than never.

I was expecting there be more specifics on the next rotation - I suppose theyre waiting to see how the election settles out, among other things, and thats probably a good idea.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-12-19 16:20|| 2005-12-19 16:20|| Front Page Top

#25 Hey LA, you are dumber than a frickin post. Only a moron lefty would translate "collapse of the world economy" with all of the hardships therein to "Its all about oil".

Gee, oil is a central component of the world economy. That must be Bush's fault! Saudi Arabia is the world's largest supplier of crude. That must be Bush's fault! We want to achieve our goals without collapsing the world economy, take out a genocidal madman and introduce democracy to the region, sooooooo Saddam's a scapegoat!

Go smoke more weed dude.

Posted by remoteman 2005-12-19 16:44|| 2005-12-19 16:44|| Front Page Top

#26 Left Angle, lotp has assigned you homework. Only after you have ticked off everything on her list will you be qualified to argue seriously with the Rantburg grown-ups. Think of it this way, LA, dear, you're like a high school kid, and Rantburg is grad. school or post-doc land. And yes, we are all aware of your lacks. Sorry, dear.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-12-19 17:03|| 2005-12-19 17:03|| Front Page Top

#27 remoteman:

Your name says it all, you are after all a Bushbot...lmao

push the remote control and out of you mouth comes nothing but pre-progammed RNC talking points. It's really easy because you dont have to use your pea-brain to think. that's typical of most republicans anyway..braiwashing is a strange thing.

the main point if you followed the conversation is that 17 of the 19 attackers of 9-11-01 were
from Saudi Arabia and Bush has done nothing to investigate or act on that fact. I asked ltop why he thought that and his response if read it deals
with the OIL in the region and the politics of
attacking Saudi Arabia.

LEARN TO READ AND THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 17:05|| 2005-12-19 17:05|| Front Page Top

#28 trailing wife:

I dont think so, I dont see anyone in here as being all that advanced...maybe in your minds and ego's you think you are but I nor any of the leftist in here think so.. to me like so many republican you all sound brainwashed and oblivious to reality.

Bush is a sorry pathetic excuse for a president,
he is a incompetent and yet people like you continue to support him as his ship sinks.

I think you got it all wrong..I can think logically on my own..Republican robots need to be told what to think.

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 17:08|| 2005-12-19 17:08|| Front Page Top

#29 More good news I see, he is back :)

Posted by djohn66 2005-12-19 17:17|| 2005-12-19 17:17|| Front Page Top

#30 Well, LA, I'll just leave you with this last datapoint.

I've actually been in the middle east. I've done business there in several countries. Some has been defense-related. Some has been commercial business. And one of those countries is the Saudi Kingdom, for which I am scarcely an apologist.

Based on that - and a lot of other experience and data - the fact that you think something disturbingly anti-American is going on in the Kingdom is .... nice, dear.

Because others here, including myself, know first hand that that is so and have said so quite openly for a good long while. You are SO clever to have found it out for yourself, tho!

Oh, and LA dear - just a few tiny details.

It's "she" not "he". And since my nym has only 4 letters it would be nice if you spelled it correctly.

You missed most of the point of my long post, by the way, but then it was more advanced material. We all have to start somewhere, so don't feel too badly if you have less than a solid grasp on strategy. Fortunately, there are grownups who are taking care of that part of things right now.

Posted by lotp 2005-12-19 17:22|| 2005-12-19 17:22|| Front Page Top

#31 ltop:

advanced material? hardly..long-winded boring yes.

your inflated ego hardly impresses me because you lack common sense even if you think youre so damned smart.

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 18:11|| 2005-12-19 18:11|| Front Page Top

#32 One last thing..

if youre so advanced and smart and business expericened as you say, why do you hang out in chat rooms all day? lmao

Posted by Left Angle 2005-12-19 18:13|| 2005-12-19 18:13|| Front Page Top

#33 He kinda makes you miss Gentle don't he.

Posted by remoteman 2005-12-19 18:17|| 2005-12-19 18:17|| Front Page Top

#34 ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2005-12-19 18:18|| 2005-12-19 18:18|| Front Page Top

#35 Oh God, it's LA again. This guy is frickin' tired. Bash Bush, Bash Bush, blah, blah, blah... Nothing new of course. No solutions or ideas on how to defeat the enemy and win the war against Islamic terrorists. Just bash Bush and talk about how everything is wrong. It is simply tired left wing rhetoric that people clearly don't listen to anymore. Our side is winning and your just pissed. By the way, I agree with Democrat Joe Lieberman on the issue!

Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2005-12-19 18:32|| 2005-12-19 18:32|| Front Page Top

#36 Between the appearance of Left Angle and the return of Aris, we really have Christmas gifts that keep on giving.

Posted by Sgt. D.T. 2005-12-19 18:39|| 2005-12-19 18:39|| Front Page Top

#37 "#32 One last thing.."

Let's hope it keeps its word.

Posted by docob 2005-12-19 18:40|| 2005-12-19 18:40|| Front Page Top

#38 I think LA is short for that LA Times guy that got axed last week. Now he has nothing to do but spout his regurgitated demo's drivel here on Rantburg.

Posted by 49 pan">49 pan 2005-12-19 18:46|| 2005-12-19 18:46|| Front Page Top

#39 no...LA always has to log off at a certain time, obviously when the parents get home and want to use the computer. Dumb as a box of rocks, barely versed in the DNC/Kos talking points, and quick to cite...well, no facts...ever have a chew toy that starts to stink?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-12-19 19:13|| 2005-12-19 19:13|| Front Page Top

#40 This is a chat room? All along I thought this was the group warblog. And I was so happy to be here instead of with the clevers using emoticons and 733tspek to say nothing. Bummer, dooooods.

Oh, lotp, I'm going to save your assignment list to my Palm for when I've recovered from the surgery, and have the energy for more active endeavors. Clearly I'm only a grad, not a post doc like Steve White (I still don't know everything about nothing at all ;-> )

Posted by trailing wife 2005-12-19 21:15|| 2005-12-19 21:15|| Front Page Top

#41 Oh, and may I suggest that the ignorant child not be permitted to post until he's done his homework and eaten all his nice vegetables?

Posted by trailing wife 2005-12-19 21:32|| 2005-12-19 21:32|| Front Page Top

23:57 jules 2
23:52 jules 2
23:47 trailing wife
23:37 Bomb-a-rama
23:36 trailing wife
23:33 trailing wife
23:31 trailing wife
23:30 49 pan
23:29 Robert Crawford
23:28 trailing wife
23:27 Robert Crawford
23:26 Besoeker
23:19 trailing wife
23:18 Besoeker
23:11 Barbara Skolaut
22:58 trailing wife
22:57 Besoeker
22:54 tu3031
22:49 Besoeker
22:44 tu3031
22:43 CaziFarkus
22:39 CaziFarkus
22:37 Oldspook
22:35 Besoeker