Article

2005-12-01 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Long but extremely revealing interview with convicted IMU member

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Dan Darling 2005-12-01 14:19|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Umm Dan, by "Revealing", do you mean the direction of Russian propaganda to create more animosity between Uzbekistan and the US by stating that the US is league with the islamists to sponsor terrorist attacks? That Kyrgystan and Tajikistan are also in cahoots with America against Uzbekistan (and of course Mother Russia)?

Does "Revealing" mean attempts to asuage hurt Russian feelings because of their poor performance in Chechnya and bolster Russian manhood by falsely accusing the American military of being too cowardly to leave the wire and patrol, that they don't go where and when they want, that the US military doesn't own the night? That they are easy targets getting slaughtered by the wiley turbans? All the other stuff seem pretty well known (e.g. Pakistan's double dealing, Iran, terrorists and drug lords), though I believe he is lying about the radioative material.

Anyway, sigh. The Russians haven't forgotten, nor learned, anything since the fall of communism. They won't enter the ranks of the civilized nations because they refuse to leave behind their barbarian, zero sum mentality.

Posted by ed 2005-12-01 15:21|| 2005-12-01 15:21|| Front Page Top

#2 Do you know how special operations against militants are conducted in Pakistan? They will pin us down in some place and the situation seems to be hopeless, but then the Pakistani soldiers show us an escape route.

If Pakistan goes to war with us, the country will explode because the people sympathize with us. So they pretend to be helping the United States, while in fact they are helping us.

Where is bin Laden? In Pakistan. They cannot catch him? Thatâs because they do not really want to catch him.

Something seems to be wrong with my surprise meter.

Posted by Zenster 2005-12-01 15:24|| 2005-12-01 15:24|| Front Page Top

#3 This guy is saying his little movement (the IMU) is strategically and tactically successful, defeating the American army at will, that Pakistan is really on their side, and that America wanted him to fight Kamirov instead, but the end result of all of this is he was captured, and he was sent to Tashkent for trial.

I find it doubtful that the CIA would have tried to recruit him to fight Karimov but then turn around and hand him over or have the Pakistanis hand him over.

I also find it doubtful that someone who was "former chief of the IMU counterintelligence service" would be so casually abandoned, especially if it were just a matter of making bail. (?)

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2005-12-01 15:36|| 2005-12-01 15:36|| Front Page Top

#4 Quite simply it doesn't sound right. Look at the part about how he converted, about his preislamist life (I was in operations of privaization, I made too much money fo my own good). Plus the simple fact that he is talking and talking so easily (funny for fanatic isn't it?). At ten miles upwind the text still smells of having been written by someone who is neither Uzbek or Islamist but Russian and mounting an operation of propaganda.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2005-12-01 16:28|| 2005-12-01 16:28|| Front Page Top

#5 There was also talk to the effect that the raw materials for a âdirty bombâ had been bought in Russia and Ukraine, specifically from a scrap-yard for decommissioned nuclear submarines.

I wonder if he is talking about crud traps, which would make great dirty bombs.

ANd I bet some of those old ruski bookmers have some hellacious crud traps.

Posted by Penguin 2005-12-01 16:29|| 2005-12-01 16:29|| Front Page Top

#6 Sorry guys, but I have to disagree.

ed:

Re-read the article - it says that the ISI tried to redirect the IMU's attention towards Uzbekistan, which is consistent with what we know about how Pakistan handles its jihadi groups. The part about Americans trying to meet with IMU leadership is also consistent with other info we've seen about the US trying to create an ethnic rift within al-Qaeda along Arab/Uzbek lines - recall that it was an IMU member that sold out Abu Faraj al-Libbi.

That Masirokhunov parrots Ayman and other al-Qaeda bigs about the situation in Afghanistan also makes perfect sense - that's probably what the Taliban and al-Qaeda guys are telling him.

Abdominal Snowman:

He said he was blindfolded and some guys spoke to him in Farsi. It's his inference that they were Americans, but it's far more likely that it was actually members of the ISI.

JFM:

From the looks of things, he floated from one totalitarian movement to another until he got established in the IMU. This is actually real phenomenon, as can be seen from Arafat who started out as sort of an Arab Marxist and then turned Islamist when it became the cool thing to do.

Posted by Dan Darling">Dan Darling 2005-12-01 16:43|| http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com]">[http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com] 2005-12-01 16:43|| Front Page Top

#7 Was Arafat ever an Islamist? I thought he was a Nasserite (non-Marxist but lefty secular pan-Arab nationalist, not as intent on a single arab state as the Ba'ath) Of course he talked about the mosques on the Temple Mount, and all that, cause thats what you do to trumpet Pal claims in Jerusalem, and he worked with Hamas and IJ out of convenience, but I dont think he was ever interested in say, Sharia (unless as a sop to Hamas)

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-12-01 16:56|| 2005-12-01 16:56|| Front Page Top

#8 "We got in touch with him not very long ago, offering to help, but he refused. I met with Zarqawi two years ago. He did not stand out in any special way. At that time, I was higher within our hierarchy."

I doubt this very much.

For all the items here I would ask the following. Why does he want us to know/beleive them? Alternatively, why might the Uzbek authorties (hostile to the US, and to Pakistan) now holding him, want us to believe them?

Note that he attribute the Andijon protests to radical Islamists - that fits the Uzbek govt line very well.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-12-01 17:06|| 2005-12-01 17:06|| Front Page Top

#9 Dan, I can see how you interpreted as the ISI tried to recruit Masirokhunov against Uzbekistan, especially in light of your suspicion that the Farsi speakers were from the ISI.

However, from my reading of the text, he claims it was Americans trying to recruit him for an operation against Ukbekistan, et al. That makes no sense to me as the US and Uzbekistan found mutual benefit against the the Islamists, and the US did quite a number on the IMU. Though it is very possible the US tried to recruit him to infiltrate the IMU or Al Qaeda.

Our difference is that you interpret it as the ISI recruiting him to destabilize Uzbekistan, while I interpret it as the FSB pulling Masirokhunov's puppet strings to make sure US-Uzbek relations stay poisoned.

When I was in a local jail, U.S. intelligence officers talked to me on several occasions. I was blindfolded and taken somewhere. I did not see their faces, but they spoke Farsi with me.

>>Did they interrogate you?

No, they tried to recruit me. I was offered cooperation. I was to take part in some operations in the Caucasus, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan and in return for that they promised to get me into Europe or some Arab country. They also said that it was senseless to fight against the Americans in Afghanistan and that our common enemy was the Karimov regime: it had to be brought down for democracy to be established there.

Posted by ed 2005-12-01 17:13|| 2005-12-01 17:13|| Front Page Top

#10 liberalhawk:

Arafat used quite a bit of Islamist rhetoric (I recall one speech about a million martyrs marching to reclaim Jerusalem or something along that line) later in life. He didn't have any use for sha'riah or taking orders from holy men, but he was definitely more than willing to adapt the style his authoritarianism to suit of ideology of the day.

As for Zarqawi, recall that when Masirokhunov was in Afghanistan, Zarqawi was just a camp commander while he was the IMU intelligence chief. He only became a big name in the world of international terrorism when he emerged as the leader of first al-Tawhid and then al-Qaeda in Iraq. The ironic thing is, from what we know now as far as the chemical plots that Masirokhunov referenced are concerned, those were in fact launched at the impetus of Zarqawi and Khabab.

As for attributing Andijon to the Uzbek Islamic Jihad splinter group, that isn't exactly the Uzbek government line (that it was Hizb-ut-Tahrir) so there are probably two possibilities - they're coercing him into saying this or he's just going off what he heard in the Uzbek media, which toes the government line.

ed:

He says he was blindfolded and that somebody was trying to convince him in Farsi redirect his attention away from Pakistan to the Caucasus or Central Asia, with a promise that after that he could take refuge in Europe or the Middle East. That sounds a lot like something the ISI would do based on their past behavior, especially if it kept him out of trouble in Pakistan or Afghanistan (since fighting in Afghanistan would lead to more US pressure on Pakistan).

Now I don't doubt for a minute that he's toeing somebody's line here (whether it's Karimov or somebody else's), but I still think that there's a lot of useful info to be noted here, especially on Pakistan, Iran, and who's backing the IMU these days.

Posted by Dan Darling">Dan Darling 2005-12-01 17:28|| http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com]">[http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com] 2005-12-01 17:28|| Front Page Top

23:51 JosephMendiola
23:43 Seafarious
23:40 Barbara Skolaut
23:39 Barbara Skolaut
23:32 Bomb-a-rama
23:09 RG
23:07 Silentbrick
22:47 Cyber Sarge
22:46 RG
22:40 Frank G
22:26 Redneck Jim
22:23 RG
22:19 Frank G
22:17 Frank G
22:17 49 pan
22:16 DMFD
22:11 Bobby
22:10 SR-71
22:09 Frank G
22:07 Red Dog
22:01 Cyber Sarge
21:55 RG
21:54 macofromoc
21:51 CaptainHook