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2005-10-06 Home Front: Politix

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Posted by Dan Darling 2005-10-06 00:34|| || Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Execute him and each and every other person who spys for foreign governments and is a traitor to his nation and it's people who paid him and entrusted him with our protection.

Posted by MunkarKat 2005-10-06 08:15|| 2005-10-06 08:15|| Front Page Top

#2 Israel? They're on our side, right?

Posted by tu3031 2005-10-06 09:06|| 2005-10-06 09:06|| Front Page Top

#3 Israel is on our side, and yes they spy on us.

The deal is if the spying is low level, like transcribing public information, no-one gets heated.

This guy was caught passing classified info, and yes, he should be shot.

I would handle Israel by asking for a concession (maybe this is why there was a Gaza pullout?) They are still an ally, and this might just be "trust through verification" on their part.

Posted by flash91 2005-10-06 12:27|| 2005-10-06 12:27|| Front Page Top

#4 Israel is on Israels side. Many times that is coincident with our side. But not necessarily. Remember the Liberty? Only two countries have a shot of being "on our side", Oz and the UK. The rest are just nations with permanent interests, not permanent allies.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-10-06 12:31|| 2005-10-06 12:31|| Front Page Top

#5 "He also admitted giving classified data to a political official at the Israeli Embassy...He gave me far more information than I gave him."

This case goes far beyond Franklin, Satterfield, Pollack, Rosen, and Weissman. Unfortunately the big fish most likely will never be netted. Three Israelis no longer in Washington and all have diplomatic immunity (which prevents them from being subpoenaed) have already refused to cooperate. Two of the Israelis involved in the case are Naor Gilon, who was the political officer in the Israeli embassy in Washington, and Rafi Barak, who served as the Deputy Chief of Mission, the third Israeli is presumed to be a representative of the military intelligence in Washington.

oh...BTW- The U.S. congress has been approving an annual foreign aid bill totaling an average of $3 billion, 1.2 billion in economical aid, and $1.8 billion in military aid, to Israel since 1987.

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-10-06 12:58|| 2005-10-06 12:58|| Front Page Top

#6 pardon, but the guys who franklin gave the info to are alleged to have turned it over to the press. Spies, as a general rule, DONT turn over the take to the media. This was a violation of law (if its all true, and the AIPAC guys deny it) but it was NOT espionage a la Pollard, or Ames, or whomever. Much less treason.

Oh, and the attack on the Liberty was an accident. Thats been shown pretty conclusively.

And btw, while Im pretty anglophile, i must insist that the UK and Australia both have their own permanent interests as well.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-10-06 13:15|| 2005-10-06 13:15|| Front Page Top

#7 'He also admitted giving classified data to a political official at the Israeli Embassy, but said the information he received from the official was far more valuable.

"I knew in my heart that his government had this information," Franklin said. "He gave me far more information than I gave him."'

Franklin was trading info with an ally. Now of course Franklin wasnt authorized to do so - cause he was a DoD policy guy, not State or CIA. Wonder why Franklin didnt work through CIA or State? Youd think RBers, of all people would realize why.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-10-06 13:18|| 2005-10-06 13:18|| Front Page Top

#8 The man was a spy for a foreign power and a traitor to his nation. He betrayed the trust placed in him by us and did so for his own interests NOT OURS. He deserves to be executed and none of us should have to pay to keep his sorry ass alive let alone have to live with the likes of him walking the streets. He doesn't deserve to live free here. There is no place for apologist BS hair splitting in this instance.

Posted by MunkarKat 2005-10-06 13:22|| 2005-10-06 13:22|| Front Page Top

#9 do you know what the definition of treason is?

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-10-06 13:33|| 2005-10-06 13:33|| Front Page Top

#10 Franklin was trading info with an ally. Now of course Franklin wasnt authorized to do so.

Ah yes...Espionage Light. Everyone drinks it here in DC.

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-10-06 13:39|| 2005-10-06 13:39|| Front Page Top

#11 Alas, it's not the definition of treason where we differ LH. You'd fancy it somehow more pardonable to sell out to some foreign governments but not others I imagine. I believe ALL foreign governments whether they be past, present, or future enemies have to be dealt with at arm's length and understood as being other than American. They rightly have their own interests that may or may not coincide with ours at any given time. Realistically, they need to be constantly considered in relation to their acts, words, interests and potential for both good and bad. All other nations are in that sense "enemies" to us by their very nature. But semantics aside, a betrayal of high trust by a government official who gives away classified information relating to national security (not the national endowment of the art or national education policy or national forrest sevice) to a foreign power has betrayed the trust of the American people and is in the absolute sense a traitor to those who placed the trust in him. For that he should be executed promptly. Call it fun and games, frolic and detour, espionage-lite, a well intentioned mistake, or the act of treacherous scum, what he did is not right. You find it wrong but not so bad I imagine. I find it utterly inexcusable under any circumstances. There's the real difference.

Posted by MunkarKat 2005-10-06 14:36|| 2005-10-06 14:36|| Front Page Top

#12 Treason is providing aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States. If every foreign power is an enemy, than anyone who provides aid and comfort to any foreign power is an enemy. Every registered lobbyist for a foreign country is a traitor, everyone who supports the political positions of a foreign state is a traitor, etc. The US govt itself is engaged in treason, for giving foreign aid, etc.

Its an absurd definition, which is why the framers, in their wisdom, did not define treason that way. They were personal friends of the Marquis de Lafayette, who gave aid and comfort to the United States - they certainly didnt think he was a traitor to France.

Wisdom consists in making appropriate distinctions. And maintaining rule of law. Not all espionage is treason, and not all improper revelation of secrets is espionage.

Are you going to insist that Karl Rove and Lewis Libby be executed for treason, IF it turns out that they improperly released classified information relating to Valerie Plame Wilson?

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-10-06 15:50|| 2005-10-06 15:50|| Front Page Top

#13 i mean good grief, we've had spies whove blown networks to the Soviets, resulting in the deaths of agents working for the US, who were NOT executed. How can you reasonably execute someone who gave info, whose passing has had NO demonstrable negative effects on the security of the US?

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-10-06 15:53|| 2005-10-06 15:53|| Front Page Top

#14 The United States and Israel had several special protocols where classified information was exchanged, both ways. The United States gained considerably from these exchanges, including tons of Soviet military equipment the Israelis captured from Egypt during the 1967 war. Most of the agreements were unilaterally ended by the United States between 1977 and 1979. I think all Rantburgers can read between the lines and know WHO terminated these programs, and even have a pretty good guess why.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2005-10-06 16:08|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2005-10-06 16:08|| Front Page Top

#15 "...has had NO demonstrable negative effects on the security of the US?"

Ummm...we don't know that now do we.

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-10-06 16:41|| 2005-10-06 16:41|| Front Page Top

#16 Franklin:

OK, Let's be fair and balanced about this spy.

Have Frankliin shot with an Uzi.

Posted by Red Dog 2005-10-06 18:32|| 2005-10-06 18:32|| Front Page Top

#17 IIRC,Marquis de Lafayette was not a representative of the French government,he came over here to help our struggle on his on volition and on his own dime.

Posted by raptor 2005-10-06 18:46|| 2005-10-06 18:46|| Front Page Top

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