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2005-10-05 Iraq
US, UN, urge Iraq to reverse changes to voting procedure
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Posted by Jackal 2005-10-05 00:13|| || Front Page|| [11128 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Oddly enough, I have to agree with the article's thrust. Do it straight-up.

If they torpedo it, then it will be crystal clear that the Sunnis are too stupid to live.

I've always hated these absurd attempts to hold together a bogus entity - no different than Yugoshitvia. Cut the Kurds loose from this faux monstrosity, at least.

Only a few months ago, I'd have said seal the southern border of Kurdistan and let the Arabs kill each other off. Now, with the south so terminally fucked up, as it obviously is, I'm not sure. Any ideas out there - that don't involve shackling the Kurds to this cluster fuck?
Posted by .com 2005-10-05 01:02||   2005-10-05 01:02|| Front Page Top

#2 The problem traces back to the form of democracy the UN set up in Iraq. It's the same shit that Germany is going through right now with coalition building.

In essence, there is no "straight up". It's too f!*ked up.
Posted by Captain America 2005-10-05 02:18||   2005-10-05 02:18|| Front Page Top

#3 Re: Straight-up...

I was referring to the article - where they changed the rules on the constitution ratification vote. What are you talking about?
Posted by .com 2005-10-05 02:40||   2005-10-05 02:40|| Front Page Top

#4 The United Nations sharply criticized the changes — which make it nearly impossible for the Sunni minority to defeat the charter at the polls — and warned that they violate international standards.

Google "Democracy" Koffi.
Posted by gromgoru 2005-10-05 04:41||   2005-10-05 04:41|| Front Page Top

#5 CA, it's called proportional representation and it does suck. Why do we keep forcing a clearly unworkable system on others that we do not adopt ourselves? Because the government is still under the control of idiots like Lani Guenier. It's going to take a long time for all these idiots to die because they won't be fired.
Posted by Speanter Thraque8792 2005-10-05 07:40||   2005-10-05 07:40|| Front Page Top

#6 US, UN, urge Iraq to reverse changes to voting procedure

Why not just use the Gore Plan[tm] - wait till the counting starts and then change the rules.
Posted by Javirt Thrusing6823 2005-10-05 08:28||   2005-10-05 08:28|| Front Page Top

#7 They changed them back: Iraq's parliament has reversed its decision to change the rules governing a referendum next week on the country's new constitution. The altered rules would have made it much harder for Sunni opponents of the draft constitution to reject it. Parliament has now decided to revert to the original rules - as both the United Nations and Washington said it should.

UN legal advisors said that a referendum held under the new rules would not meet international standards. After a brief debate, MPs voted 119 to 28 to restore the original voting rules for the referendum. Only about half of the 275-member body attended the vote, although a quorum was achieved.
Posted by Steve">Steve  2005-10-05 08:39||   2005-10-05 08:39|| Front Page Top

#8 Good that they changed them back. I'm not sure what "international standards" are for elections (do they require Jimmy to be watching?), but the rules didn't pass the smell test, with different definitions for "voter" for yea and for nay.
Posted by James">James  2005-10-05 11:41|| http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com]">[http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com]  2005-10-05 11:41|| Front Page Top

#9 Jimmy? May God help us.
Posted by BigEd 2005-10-05 12:32||   2005-10-05 12:32|| Front Page Top

#10 The thing about new democracies in old countries is that there are so many groups that were grossly discriminated against under the old regimes. Proportional representation is the only way to get things started -- if we want the many minorities to feel they have a stake in the new set-up. We can hope that once the people mature politically (and clearly it takes more than the half century Germany has experienced ... France is too busy enjoying its own manic-depressive cycle ever to move beyond it, I think), they will be able to see the problems inherent in a proportionally representative system.
Posted by trailing wife 2005-10-05 14:37||   2005-10-05 14:37|| Front Page Top

#11 I'm not sure what to think except if Washington and the UN agree on this rule change, it probably isn't a good thing. Why should a minority be allowed to change the charter?
Posted by Danielle 2005-10-05 15:03||   2005-10-05 15:03|| Front Page Top

#12 TW, by the time they live through all the problems of pr, they're fed up with democracy and ready for a man on a white horse to get something done. That's why the Germans turned to Hitler. That's why they're in the jam they're in today.

First past the post with a real commitment to individual rights is the ONLY way to go. It forces opposing parties to move to the middle. with pr there is no incentive for real accomodation, only continual political games that give you, in the case of Italy, a government a year.

With PR, I'd bet the Iraqis will decide they'd be better off splittting the country up with the Sunnis joining Syria, the Shia joining Iran and the Kurds going after eastern Turkey. That'll be lovely.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-10-05 15:16||   2005-10-05 15:16|| Front Page Top

#13 Danielle,
It was the Shiites who changed the voting rules in the first place to make it almost impossible for the Sunnis to torpedo the constitutional vote. I would have let it be known that if the constitution was torpedoed by Sunnis, it would have to be rewritten, with less outside input, and less favorable to Sunni interests, or possibly excluding the Sunni provinces in a new Shiite-Kurdish nation.
Posted by ed 2005-10-05 15:17||   2005-10-05 15:17|| Front Page Top

#14 It is a problem, I admit, Mrs. D, but we set up the same system in Afghanistan, and look how enthusiastic both peoples were in their last round(s) of elections. And it looks like the number of parties is beginning to rationalize, just a bit. And first past the post would just put the Shiites straight into power at this point.

The Germans, on the other hand, probably need another generation of working things through (Moses led the Israelites through the wilderness for 40 years, until all those who'd lived in Egypt even as children were dead, before God deemed them ready for the freedom of self-rule in the Promised Land. And then they had to conquer it before it was theirs anyway)... and let's hope they make it that far before events and birthrates overtake them.
Posted by trailing wife 2005-10-05 20:04||   2005-10-05 20:04|| Front Page Top

23:46 .com
23:34  CrazyFool
23:21 Classical_Liberal
23:17 Zenster
23:12 Zenster
23:01 Ruy Diaz
22:54 Zenster
22:42 Desert Blondie
22:33 John in Tokyo
22:21 .com
22:20 .com
22:05 Redneck Jim
22:01 .com
21:59 .com
21:56 3dc
21:50 3dc
21:41 Frank G
21:38 Mrs. Davis
21:35 Frank G
21:31 Robert Crawford
21:28 trailing wife
21:27 RWV
21:24 Bright Pebbles
21:22 Bright Pebbles









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