Article

2005-08-28 Israel-Palestine

EU Envoy Otte: Withdrawal is the Model for Jerusalem

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Posted by Captain America 2005-08-28 05:03|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 No way not ever. Jerusalem is the Capitol of Israel. 3 wars of aggression against Israel shows that the Arabs have no right to make any claim on Jerusalem.

Send this ratbag Mister Otte packing back to the EU as a an undesirable person.

Posted by Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom 2005-08-28 07:30|| 2005-08-28 07:30|| Front Page Top

#2 Of course the elephant in the room that no one will admit to is that logic dictates Arab majority areas currently in Israel should be transferred to the paleo area in exchange for newly created jewish majority areas around Jerusalem. The mere mention of this would set off massive rioting in the Arab Israeli areas since they would be rightly appalled at the prospect living under a paleo Arab government. Nonetheless this is the end game.

Posted by phil_b 2005-08-28 07:53|| 2005-08-28 07:53|| Front Page Top

#3 the EU - supplier of arms and money to Paleo terror groups. Who asked your opinion, boy?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-28 09:52|| 2005-08-28 09:52|| Front Page Top

#4 phil_b: you raise a very good point. Even in the Arab areas of Israel, the Arabs reproduce at such a rate that soon they will be as crowded as Gaza. This leaves the inevitable, and unenviable, choice to Israel of either kicking them out or carving out that part of Israel to become part of Paleo territory. I would propose that they have already decided on making emigration from Israel easy for them.

As far as Jerusalem goes, the only real question remaining is the disposition of the al-Asqa mosque. The Jews could solve that problem by discreetly creating a policy: any major act of war by any Arab country, and the mosque will be razed, followed immediately thereafter by the creating of the Jewish temple at that site. This will be assisted by the elimination of all Moslem heritage sites in all of Israel, and the expulsion of any Arab the Israelis see fit to expel.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-08-28 10:48|| 2005-08-28 10:48|| Front Page Top

#5 I would love to know at just what point Palestine is pressured to recognize the state of Israel? Israel is to give and give and get nothing in return? Why bother calling it negotiations, if that's the case?

Our Euro "friends" have a schizophrenia problem. 1) They see no problem dealing with Hamas. 2) One of the most celebrated leaders of Hamas just this weekend confirmed they still plan on eliminating the state of Israel from the map. 3) European "leaders" claim to be an impartial facilitator in bringing peace to both Israelis and Palestinians. They must mean the peace of the grave for Jews.

Posted by jules 2 2005-08-28 12:00|| 2005-08-28 12:00|| Front Page Top

#6 Well, yes. The withdrawal is a model for Jerusalem, but just not in the manner that the EU expects. Israel will expel the Arabs from Jerusalem and only allow carefully supervised bus tours to the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa. Any moslem who makes so much as a anti-Israeli remark is going to find himself dumped over the wall into Gaza.

Posted by RWV 2005-08-28 13:30|| 2005-08-28 13:30|| Front Page Top

#7 Israel's Euro friends have no problem -- Otte understands the consequences of his proposals. The Euros happily bought into the Palestinian view of things, and believe that Israel has no right to exist... which outcome they willingly work to achieve while mouthing pious platitudes. In fact, they consider Israel to be a colonial activity by Europe's Jews, and believe that the Jews should decolonize post-haste, and return to their countries of origin. The outcome of that being the Jews' problem, of course, and no concern of Europe.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-08-28 14:35|| 2005-08-28 14:35|| Front Page Top

#8 But no Temple will be built on the Temple Mount. Judaism evolved past needing or even wanting such a thing just about the time the one Jesus knew was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D.

/today's history lesson ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-08-28 14:47|| 2005-08-28 14:47|| Front Page Top

#9 ..."they consider Israel to be a colonial activity by Europe's Jews, and believe that the Jews should decolonize post-haste, and return to their countries of origin..."

An arguable position if your country of origin is Russia. If your country of origin is Israel?

Of course you're right, tw. Which is why someone in this administration needs to force Europe to define its role in the Peace Plan. Publicly pressuring the Pallies into recognizing the state of Israel will put European and Pallie hypocrisy in the glaring light of the media in one fell swoop. Either Europe will strive to separate itself from American evenhandedness, in which case their resilient anti-Semitism can be put out for international display and MSM indigestion, or they push the Pallies to do what they should have done long before the Gaza pullout.-recognize the state of Israel as the first step in any Peace Process America wants to associate ourselves with.

Posted by jules 2 2005-08-28 15:22|| 2005-08-28 15:22|| Front Page Top

#10 The EU is still throughly anti-jewish. Don't hold your breath on a change. 60+ years after WW2 and they still hate the Jews. Many in the EU are quite sad that Hitler didn't get them all. Europe hasn't learned a thing. The EU has no moral or spiritual compass. As I said Israel ought to expell this Otte as an undesirable person.

Posted by Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom 2005-08-28 15:41|| 2005-08-28 15:41|| Front Page Top

#11 the EU - supplier of arms and money to Paleo terror groups.

U.S. hands aren't exactly clean in that regard.

Posted by Colt 2005-08-28 17:45|| www.eurabiantimes.com]">[www.eurabiantimes.com] 2005-08-28 17:45|| Front Page Top

#12 Otte of Eurabia indeed ... the Otte man out for sure.

Posted by Crailet Unaling3278 2005-08-28 17:45|| 2005-08-28 17:45|| Front Page Top

#13 The EU is still throughly anti-jewish.

But if that was true, then their interests should lie with the Israelis. More importantly they should be actively working with the Palestinians for peace.

The reason is...becoming tired of never-ending conflict, many Israelis are returning to their countries of origin, to the newly expanded EU territories. Meaning of course that there will be more Jews in Europe.

Posted by Rafael 2005-08-28 17:47|| 2005-08-28 17:47|| Front Page Top

#14 Colt-could you expand on that please.

Posted by jules 2 2005-08-28 18:30|| 2005-08-28 18:30|| Front Page Top

#15 Sure. The U.S. funds the PLO, and is pushing Israel to arm the PLO.

Posted by Colt 2005-08-28 18:36|| www.eurabiantimes.com]">[www.eurabiantimes.com] 2005-08-28 18:36|| Front Page Top

#16 And you can claim this how?

Posted by jules 2 2005-08-28 18:45|| 2005-08-28 18:45|| Front Page Top

#17 Here's a recent U.S. donation:

USAID agrees to transfer $50 million to Palestinian authority: http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/VBOL-6FKCSE?OpenDocument

Sec. Rice tells Israel to give arms and ammo to the PLO: http://www.zoa.org/pressrel2005/20050801a.htm

Posted by Colt 2005-08-28 18:51|| www.eurabiantimes.com]">[www.eurabiantimes.com] 2005-08-28 18:51|| Front Page Top

#18 Colt, thanks for the links.

Note that the second article said PA, not PLO, although I can understand why you interchanged the terms.

That money is being extended from the US to the Palestinians gives us all the more reason to demand a Palestinian disassociation from Hamas, etc.

From your link:
"With U.S. oversight, the funds will be used to rehabilitate new housing for 6000 families, roads, water facilities, schools, and health clinics in Gaza to help ease the transition after the Israeli disengagement. "

American people will expect that oversight means these monies can only be used for the purposes stated.

Posted by jules 2 2005-08-28 18:58|| 2005-08-28 18:58|| Front Page Top

#19

Note that the second article said PA, not PLO, although I can understand why you interchanged the terms.

I.e., they are indistinguishable, in terms of ideology and practice, and virtually identical in terms of organisation.

American people will expect that oversight means these monies can only be used for the purposes stated.

First, there is no such thing as transparency in the territories. Second, even if this money is used for the intended purpose, it frees up money the PLO can use to carry out terrorist attacks.

Third, who cares what its for? You aren't going to argue that the U.S. should send millions to the 'social wing' of Hamas, are you?

Posted by Colt 2005-08-28 19:02|| www.eurabiantimes.com]">[www.eurabiantimes.com] 2005-08-28 19:02|| Front Page Top

#20 No. There is no such thing as a social wing of a terrorist organization.

Posted by jules 2 2005-08-28 19:03|| 2005-08-28 19:03|| Front Page Top

#21 Right. So the U.S. is funding a terrorist organisation.

Posted by Colt 2005-08-28 19:05|| www.eurabiantimes.com]">[www.eurabiantimes.com] 2005-08-28 19:05|| Front Page Top

#22 If you say that the PA and Hamas are one, then you can make that claim. I am not convinced you're wrong. The pressure now shifts to Abbas to prove otherwise.

And while there may be no transparency, Americans have eyes to see and brains to register what the effects of the disengagement of Gaza turn out to be. It will be up to all of us to shove examples of continued terrorism in front of all Americans' faces and then ask how they feel about funding the murder of other human beings (Israelis).

The hard part is having to watch it happen, step by step. We suspect in our bones what Abbas will do. It is a waste of lives that we have to do this dance to make the rest of the "peace" partners conscious and civilized.

That is the point at which you and I started to disagree.

Posted by jules 2 2005-08-28 19:15|| 2005-08-28 19:15|| Front Page Top

#23 The PA and Hamas aren't one - at least not yet, as Abbas has been recruiting Hamas and PIJ in to the PA 'security forces'.

The PLO/PA is a terrorist organisation in its own right.

We suspect in our bones what Abbas will do. It is a waste of lives that we have to do this dance to make the rest of the "peace" partners conscious and civilized.

Guess what: dead Jews don't convince Europe of anything. It doesn't have much of an impact on the U.S. or Israeli governments, either.

Posted by Colt 2005-08-28 19:19|| www.eurabiantimes.com]">[www.eurabiantimes.com] 2005-08-28 19:19|| Front Page Top

#24 You are preaching to the choir. You say Europeans don't care. I would agree that many don't-they still have a very ugly skeleton they haven't made amends to in their closets. Does the fact that we agree change US or European policy? No.

What could change policy? Possibly the dissolution or transformation of the suite of "partners"?

Posted by jules 2 2005-08-28 19:37|| 2005-08-28 19:37|| Front Page Top

#25 I think what Isreal sould do is tell the EU and the UN to stick it and just make a declaration that after every Palestinian attack Isreal would forcible take X acres of land. Starting with the cities on the border to solidify the Isreali border and strengthen security. At some point the Paleo's would either stop the terrorist and start being real negotiating partners or their would be none of them in Isreal.

Posted by C-Low 2005-08-28 21:21|| 2005-08-28 21:21|| Front Page Top

#26 trailing wife: There is an orthodox movement to recreate the temple at that site. A red heifer would be needed for sacrifice for this rebuilding to begin. One has become available. For further information:

http://www.jewfaq.org/qorbanot.htm

"...Some time in 1997, a red heifer was born in Israel. This birth received quite a bit of press coverage, and I received many questions asking about the significance of it.

The ritual of the red heifer (in Hebrew, parah adumah) is part of one of the most mysterious rituals described in the Torah. The purpose of this ritual is to purify people from the defilement caused by contact with the dead. The ritual is discussed in Numbers 19. If you find it difficult to understand, don't feel bad; the sages themselves described it as beyond human understanding. What is so interesting about this ritual is that it purifies the impure, but it also renders the pure impure (i.e., everybody who participates in the ritual becomes impure).

It is believed by many that this ritual will be performed by the messiah when he comes, because we have all suffered the defilement of contact with the dead. Thus, the existence of a red heifer is a possible, but not definite, sign of the messiah. If the messiah were coming, there would be a red heifer, but there could be a red heifer without the messiah coming...

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-08-28 22:22|| 2005-08-28 22:22|| Front Page Top

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