Article

2005-06-01 Europe

Bye-bye

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-06-01 13:43|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Oops on the yellow.

Let's also look at their "historic destiny."

Spain was muslim, they were stopped in France in 976(?). And at the gates of Vienna September 11, 1683.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-06-01 13:53|| 2005-06-01 13:53|| Front Page Top

#2 Ohhh, and there's comments, is this too over-the-top?

Winston Churchill on his retirement said, "Never let yourselves be separated from the Americans."

We didn't mean to take your birthright away, most Americans wouldn't understand what was meant by that if one did.

But - we also are getting weary of fixing Mother's problems.

And I'll offer a trade, all our blue-nanny-state peasants who've sold their beliefs for "free" health and dental care for your scrappy independent entrepreneurs.

You're comfortable w/monarchs whether an unelected 1 or unelected brusselsprouts, you haven't changed.

My country's people, blood and treasure for what? So you willing prostrate yourself to Frankenreich. I was raised that at the end, there will be 4 kings - the kings of the card deck and the King of England. 1000 years of history down the tubes. It means something to be English. Other than being against America, what does it mean to be European?

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-06-01 14:10|| 2005-06-01 14:10|| Front Page Top

#3 Yup, we need to go our separate ways. Hell, I don't even feel kinship with the blue-nanny-staters that a2u mentions, and have even started to question lately why I'm still so angry about an attack that targeted Blue New York. I am angry. But if something similar happens in LA tomorrow, I honestly don't if I would care.

Posted by BH 2005-06-01 14:30|| 2005-06-01 14:30|| Front Page Top

#4 Americans have always been chastised and thought of as the bastard child of Europe anyway. I agree with anonymous2u, we'll trade the blue staters for their independent minds.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-06-01 15:37|| 2005-06-01 15:37|| Front Page Top

#5 Asian Century now. Americans, look west. Japan + Australia + India + US: an alliance that matters.

Posted by thibaud (aka lex) 2005-06-01 15:39|| 2005-06-01 15:39|| Front Page Top

#6 It's rather ironic that the same Europeans that whine about America's power are the ones directly responsible for that power in todays world. Since the "superior" Europeans were unable to help themselves from destroying themselves twice in one century, thus dragging the US into the problems of their own creation, they are the ones that have helped us become a stronger nation. Then for 50+ years we footed the vast majority of the bill for THEIR defense. What they saved they poured into their bloated social systems. Now they really expect to raise a EU Defense Force? How? By raising already outrageous taxes? No. By cutting their over bloated and often abused social programs? Never. Then how? They know deep down though that the next time their asses are hanging out in the wind, their bastard cousins will help pull it back inside to safety. That nameless politician was absolutlety right:

"They're petty, they're envious and in their guts they hate us."

The only things he forgot were that they are arrogant and ignorant of their own ignorance.

Posted by 98zulu 2005-06-01 15:43|| 2005-06-01 15:43|| Front Page Top

#7 lex - i think you'll find that Australia also has national health insurance, and that its politics are closer to blue state than red state.

So Aussie probably isnt good enough for someone whos so angry he doesnt care about 9/11 cause it targeted New Yorkers. Dont imagine he'll find India too comfortable either, apart from the Hindu fundies (and wait till they get started talking about Christian missionaries).

Nah, Lex, theres no point even discussing this stuff with folks with the haters. Any US policy that can reach out to Australia and India can also reach out to large numbers of friendly people in Europe.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-01 15:46|| 2005-06-01 15:46|| Front Page Top

#8 Does anyone get the beebee-jeebees when a German talks about historic destiny?

No offense TGA, but.....

Does give one pause at minimum.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-06-01 15:47|| 2005-06-01 15:47|| Front Page Top

#9 The Germans can KEEP France this time.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-06-01 15:49|| 2005-06-01 15:49|| Front Page Top

#10 the economic differences between America and Europe are vastly exaggerated. Theyre not socialist in any meaningful way. They dont beleive in state ownership of the means of production. A greater or lesser welfare state is a matter of day to day politics, and NOT a reason for us to cooperate internationally. The lefties in Europe who say so are using that as a cover for other agendas. I suspect some on the right here are too.

Theyre less religious? So? America is a country that has included religious people of all stripes, some pretty nominal christians and Jews, a Deist who was our 3rd president, and "free thinkers" as well. We are quite capable of being allied with secularists. Though some dont much like it.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-01 15:53|| 2005-06-01 15:53|| Front Page Top

#11 and yeah, we've got lots we need to do together with Europe. Sometimes working with them will be difficult. Thats why foreign policy takes maturity.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-01 15:54|| 2005-06-01 15:54|| Front Page Top

#12 Liberalhawk, it may come as a surprise to you that I have dual US-EU citizenship, a European wife, a child about to enter a French-English bilingual school, a French employer and dreams of owning a house in France someday. Also that I strongly support national health insurance as the #1 domestic priority for this country and consider it a scandal that so many hardworking Americans lack affordable insurance.

FWIW, I don't care much for Asia and have no desire to work or travel there. But I refuse to let my heart rule my head. As foreign policy goes, I'm a realist above all. I love Europe and would fight to the death for TGA, Bulldog and the rest, but the simple fact is, as a Chinese senior official said yesterday, Europe does not matter significantly any more. All the action - all the threats and all the opportunities - is in the near and far east, two regions where the Europeans cannot significantly help or hurt us. It does not help us to ignore the overwhelmingly obvious fact of our age. Our pretending that the Atlantic Alliance is critical in this age would be like trying to prop up the Holy Alliance in 1910.

Posted by thibaud (aka lex) 2005-06-01 16:13|| 2005-06-01 16:13|| Front Page Top

#13 All the action - all the threats and all the opportunities - is in the near and far east, two regions where the Europeans cannot significantly help or hurt us.

I would argue that they CAN hurt us, and VERY significantly, by giving the Chinese advanced weapons technology.

Posted by docob 2005-06-01 16:16|| 2005-06-01 16:16|| Front Page Top

#14 LH-
IIUC, there quite a few state-owned businesses in France. France IS pretty damn socialist. But since it's their country, they can piss it down the drain if they want.

Posted by Spot">Spot 2005-06-01 16:21|| 2005-06-01 16:21|| Front Page Top

#15 lex: Also that I strongly support national health insurance as the #1 domestic priority for this country and consider it a scandal that so many hardworking Americans lack affordable insurance.

Aha! Now I've figured out why Hill is your candidate.

And I consider it a scandal that so many hardworking Americans lack affordable housing, education, et al. This is why these hardworking Americans need to be given these things using money taken from other hardworking Americans. It's only fair that Americans who have earned their money be forced to hand it over to people who haven't.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-01 18:10|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-01 18:10|| Front Page Top

#16 Theyre not socialist in any meaningful way

LOL! Come on LH. They just haven't started to collectivise the farms.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-01 18:17|| 2005-06-01 18:17|| Front Page Top

#17 I consider it a scandal that so many hardworking Americans lack affordable housing, education, et al. This is why these hardworking Americans need to be given these things using money taken from other hardworking Americans. It's only fair that Americans who have earned their money be forced to hand it over to people who haven't.

Pretty silly response from somebody who's normally more intelligent. Health insurance is not a normal market. In fact, in many ways market forces don't operate at all regarding health insurance. For starters, the consumers don't pay the providers, and the payors don't compete for individual consumers' business in any meaningful way.

No one with any expertise on the matter will stand up for our ridiculously inefficient, grossly unfair, absurdly distorted pseudo-market in health insurance. Note that ~15% of total US healthcare spend goes to paperwork/claims processing, which is more than twice the % spent on paperwork by ... Sweden. Yep, Sweden's socialist system is twice as efficient as ours.

Also consider that this system is so screwed-up that at least one, perhaps both, of the remaining US auto majors will likely go bankrupt by 2015 solely because of health insurance costs. And that nearly every major US industrial giant - from GM and Ford to IBM and Caterpillar and Motorola and all the telcos and many energy companies - has screwed or is contemplating screwing its retirees out of their health insurance benefits. Is that your idea of fairness?

Finally, ZF, I'd like to start a business. However, the cost of health insurance is a serious deterrent. Could you please explain to me why one of Mikey Moore's UAW slacker heroes should be given an extremely generous, gold-plated health insurance plan, while an entrepreneur is stuck with screwing his employees out of health insurance or else paying many thousands of $$$$$ per month for a second-rate plan? Why should the quality of one's insurance depend on one's employer?

This system is broken. It's absurdly wasteful, it's driving major employers out of business, and it's grossly unfair. I don't give a f*** which party fixes it. I just want it fixed, period. It's utterly ridiculous that we as a nation have allowed this gaping sore to go unaddressed for so many decades.

regards,
t
The system is broken. It's driving is twice as inefficient as Sweden's heat

Posted by thibaud (aka lex) 2005-06-01 18:46|| 2005-06-01 18:46|| Front Page Top

#18 Note that ~15% of total US healthcare spend goes to paperwork/claims processing, which is more than twice the % spent on paperwork by ... Sweden.

Apparently you've never experienced the joys of Medicaid, MediCal, or the VA health system.

Posted by Pappy 2005-06-01 19:40|| 2005-06-01 19:40|| Front Page Top

#19 Could you please explain to me why one of Mikey Moore's UAW slacker heroes should be given an extremely generous, gold-plated health insurance plan, while an entrepreneur is stuck with screwing his employees out of health insurance or else paying many thousands of $$$$$ per month for a second-rate plan?

Nobody held a gun to the automakers' heads and forced them to agree to the insurance plans.

Posted by Pappy 2005-06-01 19:46|| 2005-06-01 19:46|| Front Page Top

#20 sure, our health care system needs reform, and if we had a more civilized society - everyone would have some sort of coverage. But anyone who thinks free or too easy health coverage is a good thing has never, as Pappy said, "experienced the joys of Medicaid, MediCal, or the VA health system"

Just cause it's broke, doesn't mean that giving it away free is going to fix it.

Posted by 2b 2005-06-01 21:40|| 2005-06-01 21:40|| Front Page Top

23:57 mojo
23:14 Silentbrick
22:55 Pappy
22:27 Barbara Skolaut
22:25 Grunter
22:18 Captain America
22:17 Jackal
22:14 Captain America
22:13 Super Hose
22:04 phil_b
21:55 me
21:51 Super Hose
21:51 phil_b
21:44 Zhang Fei
21:41 me
21:40 2b
21:39 gromgoru
21:33 2b
21:32 docob
21:26 Super Hose
21:10 Frank G
21:03 DMFD
21:01 Desert Blondie
20:27 badanov