Article

2005-01-29 Europe

Jacques Chirac, the French president, as "dangerous" and "pathetic

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Posted by anonymous2u 2005-01-29 3:00:24 AM|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Welcome noises from Blair, but I tend to doubt the depth of his sincerity - by campaigning, himself, to sign the UK up to the EU Constitution he's determined to create a pole of power to threaten the world order. One which already desires to arm the world's largest repressive state. Seems he's been spooked by the Tories' recent fillip following well-timed comments which raised the twin threats of unchecked immigration and creeping Brussels authority.

Posted by Bulldog 2005-01-29 6:14:54 AM|| 2005-01-29 6:14:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 This is how I see it. Will the UK stay aligned in the 200+ year love/hate adventure with the US or will the UK go with the EU? The EU seeks to be at a seperate from pole than the US. If the UK stays aligned with the US it will retain it's culutre and good economy and independence. If it goes with the EU the UK's culture will be beaten out of it by little minded people in grey suits from Belgium. It will become a nation not allowed to govern of decide it's future for it's self. I see Blair as all wrong on entangling the UK into the EU, it's constitution and monetary system.

It's late my eyes are tired and I am heading for bed.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2005-01-29 6:50:57 AM|| [http://slhess.com] 2005-01-29 6:50:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 "I think we are best to congregate around one pole of common values. Europe and America should be an integral part of that together. They should not have separate and competing poles of power." Aris - no offense, but maybe itâs time Europe listened

Anonymous2u - no offense, but it's been *I* alone in this whole fucking forum that has been claiming that Europe and USA share common values and must stand together if they are to survive.

On the other hand, according to most of the rest of Rantburg, Europe is nothing but a dhimmi-infested socialist hellhole and one of the "enemies".

Such disunity will lead to the destruction of our civilization, but there you have it.

As for "not forming separate poles", what are the alternative options? People can either choose to destroy all other powers that stand in the way (that means from the USA perspective to try and destroy the EU, and from the EU perspective to try and hinder the USA), which means that our civilisation will self-destruct, or we can see all of us together joining in an alliance of *equals*.

But people here can barely stand the idea of the EU, so I somehow very much doubt USA wouldd be willing to give influence over its foreign policy to a body that contained such filthy subhumans as Ewwwropeans.

So, separate poles you have it, and let's pray that it'll be as peaceful coexistence of our two individual poles as possible. Because the *true* enemies are legion and growing, and we couldn't possibly survive more than a tiny bit of internal conflict on top of that.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-01-29 9:49:16 AM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-01-29 9:49:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 MEEEEEE! I alone! MEEEEE!

Posted by Its all about ME 2005-01-29 10:30:34 AM|| 2005-01-29 10:30:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 There's a line in Lord of the Rings about Sauron judging all hearts based on his own desires -- that's why he couldn't even conceive anyone would choose to destroy the Ring rather than use it.

And that's what you are doing also: projecting your own childish behaviour on me. Stop being an asshole and start accepting the fact that some of us *don't* think this to be a game of egos, and some of us *do* think that the whole of our civilization is at stake.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-01-29 11:00:14 AM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-01-29 11:00:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 A lot of these problems could be solved once and for all if Britain could just be sawed off of the continent and replanted off the coast of the US. The big question then would be which part of the coast. Most British would initially vie for Florida or California, but the warm temperatures would give them just horrific fog, and in the latter case it would be a major pain to get them through the Panama Canal. New England would be the most amenable, and the Brits could become a friendly liason between the US and Canada. The Irish would be close to Boston, the Scots and their scotch to the Norfolk shipyards, and Wales could join with Nova Scotia to have a real economy for a change.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-01-29 11:07:22 AM|| 2005-01-29 11:07:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Aris, what are those "common values?"

Let's get to the root of this, shall we?

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-01-29 11:20:05 AM|| 2005-01-29 11:20:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Britain should consider that things went well for it when it stayed off the continent and played the Balance of Power game. Then in 1905, it allied itself with France. OK, it's been a century in harness with the French. How has it worked out for Britain? Not too well. Time for Britain to withdraw from the continent except as a balancing power, and join its cousins overseas. Europe can and will do as it wishes. Britain and the Anglosphere must do what they can to protect themselves.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-29 11:33:36 AM|| 2005-01-29 11:33:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Aris, what are those "common values?" Let's get to the root of this, shall we?

Democracy and personal freedom, if you're interested. The most fanatically right-wing of Americans ofcourse ignore and trivialize the importance of these two elements, as do the most fanatically left-wing of Europeans.

According to such people, the other continent is contemptible because it doesn't share their perspective on *economics*. And so we're both doomed.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-01-29 11:56:24 AM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-01-29 11:56:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 And so we're both doomed.

No, just you, effendi.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-29 12:01:54 PM|| 2005-01-29 12:01:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Aris, there are decaffinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2005-01-29 12:06:37 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-01-29 12:06:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Mrs. Davis> Yes, Europe's been the fortress of the expanding freedom line, the battleground of ideologies, while USA territory itself is physically isolated from all hostile forces, reigning alone as a power of importance in a whole hemisphere.

9/11 should have taught you that physical isolation is not enough to protect you, though.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-01-29 12:34:42 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-01-29 12:34:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Aris, you are top-down, we are bottom-up democracy. So right there, we don't agree.

I see it as Europeans prefer stability and security, we wing it a little more.

You're not free to own guns. And while you own your land, in Scotland, what some here would call trespassing is allowed and encouraged.

We're arguing about whose vision is better, which is what we've been doing for a lot longer than 228 years.

I'm sorry, but the land which gave us a lot of nasty "isms" as far as I'm concerned, is just tinkering around the edges w/that document.

From your POV - in Greece it's a win/win. From my POV - same old, same old. Your history and demographics at this point in time don't look so good.

I think we can agree that communism is inheritantly evil. However - for the peasants who had 1000 years of oppression by their church and monarchy, the ability to become a dr/lawyer/teacher and improve themselves had merit in their eyes.

We've been flying by the seat of our pants for over 200 years. That's scary to a lot of people. And your recent history works against you in some Americans' eyes.

From your POV I can understand your optimism. But in this democracy thing, Europe is still younger-- in some cases a lot younger-- and less experienced at it than we are. Italy hasn't even completed 1 post-WWII government yet.

It doesn't help when our "historic allies" want to align themselves and in effect the future EU w/the Chicoms.

When W said "you're w/US or w/the terrorists" I hate to break it to you, but he only verbalized what a lot of US thought on 9/11. I had hope that Europe would finally get it, but on the whole, they don't.

You're comments show you do. BUT - on your terms, not ours. Not this time, in my POV because your recent history - and that 228 years of scorn which you disparage - works against you. And I mean you as in Europe.

BTW, I love Greece, was there 2x, had hoped for at least 1 more time before I die.

We've always been here, Aris, waiting. But w/the internet, more Americans are paying attention. And while some, like Friedman, want W to listen to Europe, I think you fail to realize we have been. The difference is now, we're responding. And that's something your ruling class and your media really isn't used to. We're answering them back.

--physical isolation is not enough to protect you--

Or them.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-01-29 1:44:17 PM|| 2005-01-29 1:44:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 When W said "you're w/US or w/the terrorists" I hate to break it to you, but he only verbalized what a lot of US thought on 9/11. I had hope that Europe would finally get it, but on the whole, they don't.--

Europe's stance was not a surprise to me. Same old same old as long as I remember. And my parents even longer.

W did not lose any good will. This divide has been there for a long time, just papered over.

Reading the business sections of newspapers alone over the years one could grasp that. One didn't need to follow foreign policy.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-01-29 1:57:55 PM|| 2005-01-29 1:57:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 From Roger Simon's place:

Back in the middle of the 19th century three men - an Englishman, a Frenchman, and an American - walk into a small American town, to be greeting by fighting, gun play, shouting, bodies lying in the street, and other signs of mayhem.

The Englishman cries, "Good Lord, it's a riot!"

The Frenchman says, "Oh no, m'sr, 'tis a demonstration."

The American looks around and says, "Yer both wrong, it's an election."

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-01-29 2:16:07 PM|| 2005-01-29 2:16:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Aris says in #3: "People can either choose to destroy all other powers that stand in the way (that means from the USA perspective to try and destroy the EU, and from the EU perspective to try and hinder the USA), which means that our civilisation will self-destruct, or we can see all of us together joining in an alliance of *equals*."
Now that's a very revealing Aris quote.

First, why would the US need to destroy the EU? I see it more a case of the EU destroying itself.

And why does Aris see the possibility of the US *destroying* the EU but the EU merely *hindering* the US? Bad overbearing 'merakins! Honestly, he needs to consider a career with the NYT or BBC or CBS.

And why are the only choices (1) destruction of civilization or (2) an alliance of *equals*. In your dreams, Aris. We are not and have never been and will never be equals. And you and Jacques Chirac are proving it daily.

The British will ultimately do the right thing. Most of the rest of you will wallow in French duplicity and EU bureaucracy until Islam takes you over and then transitions you to Sharia.

Posted by Tom 2005-01-29 2:45:29 PM|| 2005-01-29 2:45:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Anon, the EU has its faults no doubt about it. But quite frankly I don't think we can ignore the EU's importance to our security. As much as Chirac and Schroeder are 2 big arrogant ninnies, a successful outcome in this WOT(I wish there were a better word for for this war)cannot be won by the USA alone or with a wobbly UK by our side or by a sometimes Israel only when the threat is geographically closeby or a deep pockets Japan who only sends $ not warm bodies for the front lines. Let's face it, the EU countries make up 2/3 of what is commonly considered Western civilization. The girly spats that come up between Blair and Chirac represent the love-hate relations between Britain and France that have spanned history. The UK and the continent are wedded by intertwined events of history, inter marriages, trade, etc and it is prudent for us to recognize that ongoing and everlasting relationship. Every British PM may grumble about the continent but they are very careful to always stay in the family, so to speak. I think we need to pay attention to the statesmanship demonstrated by the UK politicians over the years. We can have our mutual tizzy fits with France and Germany but we need to nuture the long standing assumption of alliances between Western countries as our bottom line. That's why I think you are being a little naive and too harsh on the EU without looking at things realistically.

I see it as Europeans prefer stability and security, we wing it a little more.
What's wrong with stability and security? Americans would like some peace and stability these days. Winging it gets old real fast.

I think we can agree that communism is inheritantly evil. However - for the peasants who had 1000 years of oppression by their church and monarchy, the ability to become a dr/lawyer/teacher and improve themselves had merit in their eyes.
Err, are you arguing for or against communism? I was wondering about the " however."

It doesn't help when our "historic allies" want to align themselves and in effect the future EU w/the Chicoms.
We have our own embaressing ahem incidents. Remember Chinagate? Also we've not exactly put China in the doghouse considering our massive infusion of "weapons buying $" given over to them courtesy of our massive consumption of Chinese made imports.

But in this democracy thing, Europe is still younger-- in some cases a lot younger-- and less experienced at it than we are..
Say what? The magna carta was written in the UK in 1215. Common law, which is a major under pinning of a free world, evolved from the magna carta. The US Constitution and US Bill of Rights came from the concepts in the Magna Carta. The magna carta states:"No freeman shall be taken, imprisoned,...or in any other way destroyed...except by the lawful judgment of his peers, or by the law of the land. To no one will we sell, to none will we deny or delay, right or justice." Sound familiar?

When W said "you're w/US or w/the terrorists"
When W said those romantic noble words, he wasn't being quite honest about our own compromises with "friends" like Mushie and Saudi and Jiangi and Mubaraki etc and our willingness to forgive them their own dabblings on the dark side.

Posted by 2xstandard 2005-01-29 3:12:47 PM|| 2005-01-29 3:12:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 2x - yes, it all flows from the Magna Carta - but - on the whole - they were still under monarchy. How long have they really been at it?

They've had bits and pieces, but the whole enchilada?

And where are some of them now? And 3 years on, Mubarek's getting old, the Sauds will be interesting.

--

West isn't just a geographical location anymore, tho, is it?

We have been winging it for a very, very long time. Stability we have even thru our darkest times. Security is being redefined. The old days are gone.

---

And don't forget Loral.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-01-29 3:24:46 PM|| 2005-01-29 3:24:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 And why does Aris see the possibility of the US *destroying* the EU but the EU merely *hindering* the US?

Because (duh!), US is the most powerful one, being actually united when EU is just striving towards it. EU couldn't destroy USA even if it wanted to.

And why are the only choices (1) destruction of civilization or (2) an alliance of *equals*.

Read again -- I meant those were the only choices in addition to (0) going our separate ways, forming separate "poles".

We are not and have never been and will never be equals.

So what kind of "one pole" is anonymous2u (or Blair) talking about? Not an alliance of equals, but rather the servitude of slaves?

Europeans won't be your dhimmis any more than the Eastern Europeans would accept Soviet servitude for long.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-01-29 3:44:55 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-01-29 3:44:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Nice try with the servitude/dhimmis nonsense, Aris, but re "equals" we were talking about the alliance of nations, not individuals. For instance, Greece and the US are not "equals." Although Greece may be an "equal" in the EU (but I doubt it), no future alliance is going to give Greece one vote to each US one vote. And I am at a loss to imagine any alliance between the US and France. We bailed them out twice at great cost and got the likes of Chirac for our troubles. We have a better relationship with some Islamic countries than with France.

Posted by Tom 2005-01-29 4:03:57 PM|| 2005-01-29 4:03:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Tony can study up on further Chirac statements here.

Posted by .com 2005-01-29 5:11:32 PM|| 2005-01-29 5:11:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Although Greece may be an "equal" in the EU (but I doubt it), no future alliance is going to give Greece one vote to each US one vote.

Ofcourse, since we only have 1/30th your population or so.

But the point is you're not even willing to give the EU as a whole one vote to each US one vote. You are not willing to see even Europe as a *whole* in an alliance of equals with the United States.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-01-29 5:20:09 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-01-29 5:20:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Aris: Europeans won't be your dhimmis ...

What on urdth you blathering about?
Our dhimmis? We don't want any dhimmis, in fact, it would be nice if EUros grew some spine. You don't have to be worried about being OUR dhimmis.

(Would you believe that I lived in that sorry place for the first 30 years of my life? I smelled a rat already more than 2 decades ago calling the continent a dying old whore, beside my visceral dislike of anything commi or soci despite the thorough indoctrination machine, that's why I am here and not there)

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-01-29 5:20:46 PM|| 2005-01-29 5:20:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Of course we would dearly love to be united with Europe in facing this scourge. But the core of the problem is a set of asymmetries in the relationship that make it difficult for us to even define our common interests in this matter.

The military asymmetry is obvious. If the Euros cannot even transport their own gear to out-of-area theaters, and in many cases are so far behind technologically and operationally as to not be inter-operative, then you do not have a true alliance but rather a US force that at best can only draw on auxiliaries from time to time.

Ideologically, there's an enormous asymmetry concerning the use of military force. Kagan has explained this clearly; no need to repeat. However it is crippling any hope of playing an effective goodcop/badcop game with Iran, or presenting a united front elsewhere. If military force is not an option, then the West's influence is greatly reduced, and the value of the Western alliance is correspondingly reduced.

Finally, there is also a huge democracy deficit, in the sense that European political and media and cultural institutions are far, far more elitist and unresponsive to the common citizen than American institutions. The EU constitution farce is one example but a far more important problem is the way that European newsmedia, especially regarding the middle east and concerning US policy, monopolize, distort and spin the news. Germany's media especially but also France's are grotesque caricatures of anti-Israel and anti-US hysteria and spin. There is little competition, and 1968er ideologues are unchecked in their efforts to slam the US and paint the US in the most ludicrously slanted extreme colors. Reading Le Monde or Der Spiegel on the US is like reading Pravda ca. 1983.

This barrage of unchallenged anti-US and anti-Israeli propaganda makes it extremely difficult for the European public to get a clear view of what unites us and the Europeans, and plays into the pathetic US-bashing tactics of failed and/or corrupt European pols like Schroeder and Chirac.

The military asymmetry will probably never be reduced, but that by itself isn't fatal. The bigger problem is the democratic and media asymmetry. The alliance is dysfunctional and will be until the 1968er generation of European political and media elites is replaced by thoughtful young pro-alliance, pro-Americans.

Posted by lex 2005-01-29 5:34:51 PM|| 2005-01-29 5:34:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 What on urdth you blathering about? Our dhimmis? We don't want any dhimmis

Have you seen how raving angry have some Rantburgers been with Turkey? Torturing its citizens was *nothing* according to them, and when it stopped doing so seemed to trivial according to them -- according to so many Rantburgers Turkey is *now* turning into an Islamic shithole.

Why is Turkey now a "Islamic shithole" when all reports seem to indicate it's improving its human rights situations and democratic status? Because it dared to refuse a request by the USA to let troops through.

That's it. That's how the worth of nations is judged by many people here. NOT by how they treat their own citizens, NOR by how they treat other nations -- but only by one factor: how loyal these nations are to the United States.

When you only judge people or nations by their LOYALTY to you, then you see them as servants, and you as their Master.

On my part I'd rather have people around me who refused my requests, but nonetheless were kind towards their families, instead of the opposite: People servile to me who then went home to abuse them.

But tyrannical-torturing Turkey was a "good ally" all those years, and it's only now turning into an "Islamic shithole".

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-01-29 5:39:43 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-01-29 5:39:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 "You are not willing to see even Europe as a *whole* in an alliance of equals with the United States."
Correct, Aris, and that's because Europe doesn't have a leader, doesn't have any cohesion, and doesn't represent any particular values or inclinations. Aris, you are dumping a load of junkyard parts at my doorstep and trying to tell me it's a car. And throwing a huge bureaucracy and a huge manual (constitution) into the deal still doesn't make it a car. I'm not buying it.

Posted by Tom 2005-01-29 5:40:48 PM|| 2005-01-29 5:40:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 yep, I ~~we all~~ want a secular Turkey beating everyone in the society, daily, if possible, and even more if they talk about making an islamic shithole. Strawmen are so easy to construct, even for the challenged.

Posted by Frank G 2005-01-29 5:45:21 PM|| 2005-01-29 5:45:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 At this point Aris has proven to be sufficiently challenged that I'm leaving the thread. It's pointless.

Posted by Tom 2005-01-29 5:48:13 PM|| 2005-01-29 5:48:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Aris, reports this, reports that...I have some turkish friends, and they all are seriously worrying about Turkie turning into an islamic shithole.

As for refusing the request for transfer of US troops through Turkie territory, it was first yes (so the planning went ahead with that as a component of the strategy), then it was no.

Maybe you like backstabs?

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-01-29 5:53:37 PM|| 2005-01-29 5:53:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Tom, you just figured that out? But it actually does have a point. It feeds his ego.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-29 5:54:23 PM|| 2005-01-29 5:54:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 EU, ego -- it's all the same thing. Countries that can't get along with their neighbors think they can unite Europe and thereby abuse their neighbors behind cover of bureaucratic law-making. They're tribal and hoping no one will notice.

Posted by Tom 2005-01-29 6:02:13 PM|| 2005-01-29 6:02:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 how're those debt limits going? Everyone living up down to theirs? Jacques? Gerhard?

Posted by Frank G 2005-01-29 6:09:34 PM|| 2005-01-29 6:09:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 At which point none of you even pretends to care about truth anymore.

"Aris, reports this, reports that...I have some turkish friends, and they all are seriously worrying about Turkie turning into an islamic shithole. "

But you see, I have more reason to trust Freedomhouse than any reason to trust your claims on your friends claims.

Correct, Aris, and that's because Europe doesn't have a leader, doesn't have any cohesion,

And the fact you always conveniently ignore is that you don't want EU to have them, hence the opposition to the Constitution.

So, Europe can't be your equal because it doesn't have cohesion, and yet at the same time you don't desire it to have cohesion. That kinda means you don't *want* it to be your equal.

and doesn't represent any particular values or inclinations

Sure it does, and much more so than any other supranational entity in the face of the world. African Union, or South American Community of Nations, or CIS, or NAFTA, it's *these* things that don't represent any values or inclinations. But the EU values of democracy, freedom and human rights are inherent in it, and consistently supported by it throughout its area and the wider region.

At which point someone here will laugh maniacally, thinking that maniacal laughter is an argument.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-01-29 6:15:52 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-01-29 6:15:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 #11 Aris, there are decaffinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.
Posted by: Robert Crawford [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-01-29 12:06:37 PM

All I can say is that is real genius!

Posted by Almost Anonymous2520 2005-01-29 6:21:12 PM|| 2005-01-29 6:21:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 nahhhhh we just find maniacal laughter funny ~~Bwahahahahahha!~~

Posted by Frank G 2005-01-29 6:21:55 PM|| 2005-01-29 6:21:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 ..thinking that maniacal laughter is an argument.

Who said it was meant to be an argument?

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-01-29 7:56:23 PM|| 2005-01-29 7:56:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 What the )%*)%(* w/these stupid names???

Aris, we want cohesion and a head of the EU - have you ever considered it's the method on how to get there?

You're still going to have unelected brusselsprounts pontificating. Same Old Same Old.

Posted by Spemble Hupains4886 2005-01-29 8:42:07 PM|| 2005-01-29 8:42:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Spemble, Fred got tired of seeing comments from Anonymous4215378, Anonymous43801795, Anonymous189351782395351, etc. So he wrote a cute little name generator. If your computer allows cookies, all you have to do is type in your preferred name in the Your Name box when you post a comment. Trailing Daughter does this, and it generally takes me a few hours to get it straightened out after she posts. I am really looking forward to giving her that laptop she's been begging for, for the past two years!

Posted by trailing wife 2005-01-29 10:58:07 PM|| 2005-01-29 10:58:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 #21 .com

LOL. Just as good as your pictures

Posted by SwissTex 2005-01-29 10:59:39 PM|| 2005-01-29 10:59:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 TW, if you use mozilla or firefox, you should be able to set up another identity (if you do not want to set up another log on in your OS).

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-01-29 11:02:54 PM|| 2005-01-29 11:02:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 Sobiesky, I am the proverbial end user. I'm just happy not to accidentally blow up the internet for all of us -- I'll wait until Trailing Daughter leaves off the Latin and figures it out for me. Or I can ask one of my siblings, one who is getting her PhD in the field, the other who is professing, to do something about it when they come to celebrate TD2's bat mitzvah this spring. (That's the one y'all haven't met yet...she prefers her politics local rather than global. Clearly a throwback... or a mutation ;-) )

Posted by trailing wife 2005-01-29 11:41:09 PM|| 2005-01-29 11:41:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Nothing to it. TD can email me with your system details (Windoze/Mac OSX and version) and I can send her setup instructions.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-01-29 11:55:22 PM|| 2005-01-29 11:55:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Spemble Hupains sounds like something out of Harry Potter.

Well, just finished watching the Japs bomb Pearl again.

Posted by Spemble Hupains4886 2005-01-29 11:59:49 PM|| 2005-01-29 11:59:49 PM|| Front Page Top

16:24 Faisal of Arabia
13:43 Glereger Cligum6229
10:38 Ebbavimp Gleart2775
10:38 Ebbavimp Gleart2775
23:59 Spemble Hupains4886
23:55 Sobiesky
23:49 badanov
23:41 Dave D.
23:41 trailing wife
23:37 True German Ally
23:28 DANEgerus
23:20 Tom Dooley
23:19 trailing wife
23:19 True German Ally
23:15 Little Nell
23:13 Frank G
23:09 trailing wife
23:03 Sherry
23:02 Sobiesky
23:02 Frank G
23:01 Barbara Skolaut
22:59 SwissTex
22:59 Dave D.
22:58 trailing wife