Article

2005-01-22 Europe

Self-doubt leaves French feeling down in the mouth

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-01-22 3:23:22 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Grandiose>Delusional>depression and they have the hair to criticizes us!

Jacques Chirac what a standup guy.

Posted by freedom fries 2005-01-22 4:13:48 AM|| 2005-01-22 4:13:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 How much of that depression is simply fashion? Given that optimism is the province of those simplisme Americans, I mean.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-01-22 4:31:14 AM|| 2005-01-22 4:31:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 I wouldnt take this report seriously. The French kvetching about their decline, pessimism, cynicism et cetera is a daily part of French life. This "report" states nothing new. The intellectuals always seem to fret at the "lost" of France even during its height as a Western Power.

Indeed, a French who isnt pessimistic and cynical isnt a Frenchman.

Posted by Phavinter Phavirt2667 2005-01-22 5:30:30 AM|| 2005-01-22 5:30:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Ironic. The French are pessimists whose socialist ideology is built on an assumption of the perfectability of man and the Americans are optomists and have a Smithian ideology built on the assumption of man's corruptability.

What is amazing is that it has taken the frogs 200 years to figure out they are wrong. No wonder they are depressed.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-22 8:10:48 AM|| 2005-01-22 8:10:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 It's indeed new and disturbing. The French suicide rate is the highest in Europe, and increasing. It may seem odd to Americans who've been fed distortions by francophiliac MSM journos for years, but the French have a massive inferiority complex and are increasingly convinced of what Rantburgers have long known: their way of life is an anachronism, their influence in Europe is waning and they are unable to cast much weight in a world whose axis of power runs from Washington to Tokyo to Beijing and Delhi.

Posted by lex 2005-01-22 9:00:28 AM|| 2005-01-22 9:00:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Phavinter

The French ever think that everying in France including themselves, their wines and their dog shit is the best of the best of the best of the best. In fact, in order to kill a Frenchman you have to shoot above his head, in his superiority complex.

Posted by JFM 2005-01-22 9:05:02 AM|| 2005-01-22 9:05:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 That's a pity. There's much we can adopt from France, notably a better work-life balance, better diets, high-speed rail travel and a greater appreciation for history and for preserving lovely buildings and towns instead of bulldozing them (not even the Manassas/BullRun battlefield can be spared the developers' onslaught, acc to Congress).

The best way to preserve what's best about transatlantic, specifically US-French, cooperation IMHO would be for US thought leaders and diplomats to ignore the aging, 1968er mandarins of Le Monde and the NYT and start to appeal directly to the next generation.

Stress high technology ventures that inspire the young to seek excellence without the blessing and backing of the state. Bring young Frenchmen and women to Silicon Valley and show them the glory of US capitalism and technological brilliance. Let them see for their own eyes the truth, without the distortions and lies peddled by Le Monde and the French elite.

Posted by lex 2005-01-22 9:07:36 AM|| 2005-01-22 9:07:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 lex, when you bring them to silicon valley, they just turn into another group of immigrants, except that they continue to dump on America and teach their children to also. They are almost the only immigrants whom I have met who come to this country, get rich off it and dump on it. It is part of why I detest them and their country. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. JFM is correct.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-22 9:29:48 AM|| 2005-01-22 9:29:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 A large part of Europe, centered in France, has the odd philosophy of realistic pessimism. The seemingly endless wars that Europe endured for 1500 years drained every spark of optimism and idealism out of them. And their philosophy is far more pervasive then they would admit. If you examine the other half of their philosophy, realism, you see how passionate they are about it: as expressed by Voltaire, with the rejection of religion in public life. Unlike the US, where the realism is based in freedom of religion, and not forcing others to obey your faith; the French emphasis is based on a revulsion and rejection of religion, and forcing others to not express their religion in public. And their pessimism is just as strong. Again, by comparison, the American attitude is "On every day, and in every way, things are getting better and better"; whereas the French version would be, "Times are bad and in slow decline, punctuated by steep drops in quality and a rise in misery." In the long run, it is the way of despair and failure, and France will never amount to much until it swallows a gigantic Prozac, and gets over its depression.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-01-22 9:38:03 AM|| 2005-01-22 9:38:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Mrs D, I'm talking mainly of tourists, not golddiggers. Student exchanges primarily. Change their minds before they're corrupted.

Posted by lex 2005-01-22 9:45:25 AM|| 2005-01-22 9:45:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Unlike the US, where the realism is based in freedom of religion, and not forcing others to obey your faith; the French emphasis is based on a revulsion and rejection of religion, and forcing others to not express their religion in public.

Moose - interesting thought and quite right.

I feel compelled, having grown up in CA, similar in size to France(?), to note that, while the percentage is far, lower in the US, that we probably have more of the latter here in the US than there are in France. But CA isn't nearly as pessimistic - maybe the influence of the happy Latino culture mixed with hardworking Asian immigrants plus thriving capitalism helps :-)

Posted by 2b 2005-01-22 9:53:43 AM|| 2005-01-22 9:53:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Lex

Those students you want to exchange will have to be younger than you believe. A few months ago I heard one of the women in the caretaking center singing an antiamrican song to my three years old daughter.

Posted by JFM 2005-01-22 10:00:42 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:00:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 JFM - I volunteered in elementary schools and while there is many a good teacher out there, the blame the American Oppressor is rampant.

Posted by 2b 2005-01-22 10:03:10 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:03:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Mrs. Davis,
".....They are almost the only immigrants whom I have met who come to this country, get rich off it and dump on it. It is part of why I detest them and their country.."
The French are not the only ones. Argentinians behave the same way.

Posted by TMH 2005-01-22 10:08:13 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:08:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Oh-oh! Do I see a Strike coming on? That usually cheers them up...

Posted by tu3031 2005-01-22 10:12:14 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:12:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 ever since the employment crisis

What does the above refer to?

Posted by Shipman 2005-01-22 10:21:17 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:21:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 A few months ago I heard one of the women in the caretaking center singing an antiamrican song to my three years old daughter

WTF?? Why would anyone sing a political song of any sort to a three year-old?

Posted by lex 2005-01-22 10:26:27 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:26:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Getting her ready for elementary school Lex.

Posted by tex 2005-01-22 10:30:35 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:30:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 But CA isn't nearly as pessimistic - maybe the influence of the happy Latino culture mixed with hardworking Asian immigrants plus thriving capitalism helps :-)

Yes, 2b, the biggest difference between us and Europe is our fast-growing immigrant populations. Ours is devoutly Christian and pro-capitalist, theirs is devoutly muslim and anti-capitalist. When asians and hispanics exceed 40% of the population of California, Texas, and other key states, relations with the French will cease to be a concern for most Americans. Pacific Century now.

Posted by lex 2005-01-22 10:32:16 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:32:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Found this at LGF:

posted this in the other thread, but it is more appropriate here. From Best of the Web:

UC Berkeley recently completed what a press release describes as "the first attempt to compare measures of mental health and general well-being among California's general population on a county-level basis." The study finds that the two counties with the lowest "mental health scores" are Alameda, which includes Berkeley, and San Francisco, which is coterminous with the city.
What else do these counties have in common? They are the California counties where John Kerry did best: 83% of the vote in San Francisco and 75% in Alameda. You don't have to be crazy to oppose President Bush, but it doesn't hurt.

Poor crazy moonbats.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-01-22 10:37:14 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:37:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 As a foreigner who has lived in this country for a while, I have to say that those foreigners who are here and complain about this country are losers and will always be losers no matter where they go or how many opportunities they are given.
When I come across people like that I love to tell them what happened to me when I applied to attend the University of Houston (1980s). Because I am Hispanic I was immediately offered a full scholarship (Engineering Dept). I was surprised. It turns out that they had a minority quota to fill and they were not enough takers. Most Hispanics preferred to major in Barrios Studies and other useless degrees.
I also tell them the story of my neighborâs cleaning lady, an illegal alien, who got pregnant by another illegal alien. She was an insulin dependent diabetic who had to be put in the hospital for 3 months before her due date, had a c-section, and received the same level of health care as my son whose fatherâs salary is taxed to maintain the level of health care that she and her son received.

Posted by TMH 2005-01-22 10:38:54 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:38:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 TMH - you are America!

Posted by 2b 2005-01-22 10:44:17 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:44:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 annonymous2U - how did Arlington do? Everyone I know is on Prozac or some such.

Posted by 2b 2005-01-22 10:45:47 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:45:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 ChIrak's coat of arms? Or with a junglefowl gules. In layman's terms, that's a chicken on a yellow field.

Posted by Korora 2005-01-22 10:46:26 AM|| [http://basementburrow.blogspot.com] 2005-01-22 10:46:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 Lex: Regarding the direct appeal to the French, why bother?

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2005-01-22 10:59:26 AM|| 2005-01-22 10:59:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 That was from Best of the Web, 2b, but the study might be somewhere on Berkeley's site.

Posted by anonymous2u 2005-01-22 11:02:49 AM|| 2005-01-22 11:02:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 thanks..a2u. You might be interested to know that they are all rabid dems. All nice people though....well meaning and kind. Also have a Argentine friend (doesn't use prozac) who shocked me one day by saying Ted Rall was a favorite cartoonist. Rall's so mean-spirited that I've never really gotten past that what that must mean.

Posted by 2b 2005-01-22 1:03:30 PM|| 2005-01-22 1:03:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 IT IS official: the French are a nation of depressed pessimists, wracked with self-doubt and unable to see a positive future.

When you are a depressed pessimist, you have to look up to see down, you are lower than whale dung on the bottom of the ocean, you.......

Posted by Alaska Paul 2005-01-22 2:47:49 PM|| 2005-01-22 2:47:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 So low you'd need a parachute to jump off a dime.

Posted by Shipman 2005-01-22 3:26:46 PM|| 2005-01-22 3:26:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Ship - lol! Memory trip. In the Army, the phrase I recall most clearly (after the marching ditties) was, "I'm so short I can dive off a dime."

Posted by .com 2005-01-22 3:31:13 PM|| 2005-01-22 3:31:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Shipman---LMAO!

Posted by Alaska Paul 2005-01-22 3:36:22 PM|| 2005-01-22 3:36:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Some excerpts from Jimmy Carter's "malaise" speech of July 15, 1979:

"The real issue is freedom. We must deal with the energy problem on a war footing."

"There will be other cartels and other shortages. American wisdom and courage right now can set a path to follow in the future."

"When we enter the moral equivalent of war, Mr. President, don't issue us BB guns."

"Looking for a way out of this crisis, our people have turned to the Federal Government and found it isolated from the mainstream of our Nation's life. Washington, D.C., has become an island. The gap between our citizens and our Government has never been so wide."

Does France have its own Ronald Reagan waiting in the wings? Let's hope so.

Posted by gromky 2005-01-22 4:35:18 PM|| 2005-01-22 4:35:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 #5 Lex:

their way of life is an anachronism, their influence in Europe is waning and they are unable to cast much weight in a world whose axis of power runs from Washington to Tokyo to Beijing and Delhi.

Now, where'd I put my nanoviolin? :-D

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2005-01-22 7:49:11 PM|| 2005-01-22 7:49:11 PM|| Front Page Top

20:24 Atomic Conspiracy
20:24 Atomic Conspiracy
00:19 ed
23:59 anonymous2u
23:58 Cromorong Choque7321
23:54 Mike Sylwester
23:50 JAB
23:30 ed
23:30 liberalhawk
23:30 Alaska Paul
23:27 Xbalanke
23:27 AJackson
23:25 Alaska Paul
23:24 AJackson
23:23 AJackson
23:19 OldSpook
23:19 Alaska Paul
23:14 Alaska Paul
23:05 Alaska Paul
22:48 Mike Sylwester
22:47 Mike Sylwester
22:32 Snoluck Thrusing8432
22:22 lex
22:16 Captain America