Article

2004-11-15

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Posted by The Rantburg editorial staff 2004-11-15 10:06:53 PM|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Not to be needlessly contrarian, but isn't this why we have a Page 2 in the first place? Page 1 is still Page 1.

Posted by someone 2004-11-15 12:16:19 AM|| 2004-11-15 12:16:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 someone, maybe it's somewhat important to remind of the intended focus of Ranburg and page 1 gets loaded first. I reckon...

Posted by CornīliÃ«s 2004-11-15 12:34:58 AM|| 2004-11-15 12:34:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 We're starting to see a decline both of "civil, well reasoned discourse" and useful hard news about the WoT lately here at RB

I will cheerfully restate my commitment to avoiding gratuitous personal insult and off-topic digressions. Rantburg has an important message that this world needs to hear. I intend to provide factual and pertinent information that is material to fighting terrorism, plus the occasional wacky bit of fluff that sticks to my monitor's sceen every once in a while.

Zenster

Posted by Zenster 2004-11-15 12:40:32 AM|| 2004-11-15 12:40:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Love the focus on WOT and the multitude of articles and links, esp from non-western sources.

But too often the comments become an echo chamber. Would like to see more *intelligent, good-faith* dissenting views here. Not of the Aris Whatzisproblemis variety; am thinking more of those expressed by Robert Kaplan in the NYT today.

Good work all in all. My thanks.

lex

Posted by lex 2004-11-15 12:51:43 AM|| 2004-11-15 12:51:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 "There's too much cussing..."

No shit, Em? Damn! Who'da thunk it? Guess I'll have to cut back and not %^^#$%^^@ say %^#*@&@% is really on my ^%$#$^&*& mind, anymore. It'll prolly be good for my keyboard to use those otherwise useless $^&(^%@%^&(*(&%^$^*&()_)(*^&*&^%$##W#E%^& keys.

Posted by .com 2004-11-15 12:52:17 AM|| 2004-11-15 12:52:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 "There's too much cussing and intolerance"

Question... Is calling someone "asshat" still allowed, provided there is a good reason for it?
(I reserve my right to define ad hoc what the 'good reason' is). :-)

Posted by CornīliÃ«s 2004-11-15 12:53:56 AM|| 2004-11-15 12:53:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Uh... Yeah! What he said!

Posted by mojo 2004-11-15 12:54:15 AM|| 2004-11-15 12:54:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 No shit, Em? Damn! Who'da thunk it? Guess I'll have to cut back and not %^^#$%^^@ say %^#*@&@% is really on my ^%$#$^&*& mind, anymore. It'll prolly be good for my keyboard to use those otherwise useless $^&(^%@%^&(*(&%^$^*&()_)(*^&*&^%$##W#E%^& keys.

Silly me. Here I was, thinking an IT professional like you had hot keys for all that colorful vocabulary, .com. Shows what I know.

Posted by Zenster 2004-11-15 1:11:43 AM|| 2004-11-15 1:11:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Even with page 2, I think what Emily and Steve are saying is to think about what you post. The occasional yukko article is great, but page 2 IMHO should be still somewhat related to the WoT, but not at the other extreme, the level of the National Enquirer.

This is a WoT weblog and we need to be focused. I realize that some people make other people react in crazy ways, but that has to be minimized. Though reading a certain comment with all caps makes me think that I am a Western Union telegraph office operator at times......

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-11-15 1:41:22 AM|| 2004-11-15 1:41:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 But too often the comments become an echo chamber. I Agree. There are some really intelligent and insightful people who post here, and the RB inline editorializing/counterspin can be a joy to read (All hail the Master Fred). OTOH a significant number number of posters I wouldn't miss and others could learn that brevity is most definitely a virtue.

Posted by phil_b 2004-11-15 1:48:53 AM|| 2004-11-15 1:48:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 the stories surface elsewhere eventually, i come for the comments. most of the opinions seem to reflect those warm and fuzzy believes that you all cling to to reinsure your inclusion in the human race. did any one notice where i left that half full vodka bottle?

Posted by tito 2004-11-15 1:49:47 AM|| 2004-11-15 1:49:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 HUH?

Posted by SON OF TOLUI 2004-11-15 2:08:24 AM|| 2004-11-15 2:08:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 I can live with less comments about gay marriage, too!

Posted by True German Ally 2004-11-15 2:41:33 AM|| 2004-11-15 2:41:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Just to be certain that I understand, would this be considered WOT related?

Posted by AzCat 2004-11-15 4:34:55 AM|| 2004-11-15 4:34:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 OMG, that's TERRIFYINGly funny, lol!

Posted by .com 2004-11-15 4:50:37 AM|| 2004-11-15 4:50:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Allo Allo, too many people speaking French :)

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-11-15 7:06:34 AM|| 2004-11-15 7:06:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 I can live with less comments about gay marriage, too!

TGA - Sounds as though you're experiencing Sullivan shock! Reboot!

Mods - Scrap my Atlantis post. I've tried, but can't for the life of me connect it to the WoT... Um, that goes for German tea breaks, too.

Posted by Bulldog 2004-11-15 7:19:44 AM|| 2004-11-15 7:19:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Thank you.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-15 8:02:15 AM|| 2004-11-15 8:02:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Scrap my Atlantis post. I've tried, but can't for the life of me connect it to the WoT.

Easy: that's where the Mad Mullahs have stashed all of those Mythical Moderate Muslims^TM.

Posted by AzCat 2004-11-15 8:05:45 AM|| 2004-11-15 8:05:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 ROFL! Good 'un, Az - you covered BD's six quite nicely, heh.

Posted by .com 2004-11-15 8:08:21 AM|| 2004-11-15 8:08:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Well, there's supposed to be hundreds of millions of 'em around here somewhere but darned if I can find even one.

Posted by AzCat 2004-11-15 8:10:11 AM|| 2004-11-15 8:10:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 There are some commentors and posters whose comments are insightful regardless of length. However, I would suggest what I've done, which is make a short comment, and if you've got a longer screed at your blog, include a direct link to the entry if you feel that you need to be more lengthly to cover your six.

Oh, and a big thanks to Steve and the editors. Once I've got my head back above the financial waters, I'll be making another donation.

Posted by Ptah 2004-11-15 8:42:44 AM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2004-11-15 8:42:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 Everybody tighten up and get ready for some serious Urdu Nuggets!

Posted by Shipman 2004-11-15 8:42:59 AM|| 2004-11-15 8:42:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 Speaking about donations: I suggest adding Amazon as a means to donate, since more people have an Amazon account than a Paypal account.

Posted by Ptah 2004-11-15 8:44:27 AM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2004-11-15 8:44:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 I am in agreement with returning to the original focus and keeping the tone more civil. Let's leave the cussing and the hate to the DU.

Posted by Dragon Fly 2004-11-15 9:07:18 AM|| 2004-11-15 9:07:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 i agree whole heartedly with these post, which im sure wont surprise anyone.

Minor quibble - you ARE aware that Oxblog doesnt have comments? Winds of change, tacitus, and many others do though.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-15 9:13:19 AM|| 2004-11-15 9:13:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 and keep the articles short and to the point -darn it!

Posted by 2b 2004-11-15 9:26:26 AM|| 2004-11-15 9:26:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 and keep the articles short and to the point -darn it!

But try to include more than just a catchy headline, please. And a warning if the link goes somewhere non-work friendly.

Posted by BH 2004-11-15 10:23:04 AM|| 2004-11-15 10:23:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 personally i like the colorful language. it makes some of the comments.............well, more colorful. the idea of a politically correct rantburg makes me sqeamish, as it would just be regraded to the insipid, content-void dribblings of the mass-media. expletives mean passion, and it's far more interesting to hear a point of view that is, well, incensed, insanely biased, and fucking meaty. it can still be clever.

Posted by incredulous 2004-11-15 10:26:50 AM|| 2004-11-15 10:26:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#30 What incredulous said. Don't take the rant out of Rantburg.

Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:28:51 AM|| 2004-11-15 10:28:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#31 Please remember that the WoT, while impressive, is not the entire picture. Retain the "conventional" conflict point of view, too, and remember that there are dozens of 'wars' going on right now that have little to do with WoT, *and* some potentially REALLY BIG ONES coming down the line that need attention.

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-11-15 10:48:27 AM|| 2004-11-15 10:48:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#32 They have titty bars in Peshwar?

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2004-11-15 10:50:22 AM|| [http://blog.simmins.org] 2004-11-15 10:50:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#33 Keep the focus on Asia, near east and far east. More on India and China, please.

Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:50:45 AM|| 2004-11-15 10:50:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#34 I think that posts which relate to the insanity of the left here and abroad are well related to the WoT. Silly stuff like the OBD thread yesterday, yes, we can do without that (but it was fun trying to convince Mark Espinola and raptor to come to the dark side (country music)).

I agree with Incredulous and Llex. I post, read and comment here in rantburg to get a fix on what is going on but also to be entertained by the sometimes colorful language that is here. Yes, expletives are bad in public discourse, but this IS rantburg. Maybe we can tone it down some maybe self censor, but this is RANTburg.

Posted by badanov 2004-11-15 10:59:19 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2004-11-15 10:59:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#35 And it's funny.

ArisK excluded, there's little to none of the pomposity and posturing you find at the partisan sites. Don't Sullivan-ize Rantburg. Can't bear to read that fragile soul's hamlet-like pontifications.

Posted by lex 2004-11-15 11:02:15 AM|| 2004-11-15 11:02:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#36 I'm a longtime reader of both Rantburg and LGF. Started reading LGF before Sept. 11, and watched as it grew from very few comments to the where it is now -- someplace where I can't keep up with the comments. Rantburg, however, is keep-up-withable. Even on the most logorrheac of days. And there's truly good insight and analysis here. So, I'll do my part and think three times before posting any article from now on. Don't want to ruin our little spot here.

Posted by growler 2004-11-15 11:07:30 AM|| 2004-11-15 11:07:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#37 I've enjoyed the RB experience, no complaints. Remember the teen who stopped by a couple of days ago to tell us "this site sucks"? Well thats because RB isn't easy. Lots of stuff to dig through.

I've read some of the best commentary here though and thats what brings me back. From busted sgts, spit and shine assets like the Army of the Steves, lofty generals with feather plumed hats and far flung cadres armed to the teeth.

When I came here I was mad as hell about the WTC and the islamic threat. My view has been to ratchet up that hatred and make arguments based on that. The bitch slapping comments arn't offensive to a site like RB.

Homo marriage: That is page two stuff. But to not respond to something that could be so damaging to western culture due some lazy-fair thinking, no way. Unless coherant arguments are attempted then PC wins and you've got Holland. Holland wasn't built by PC. It evolved into PC.

But I would agree that the main point of this site is the war and thats what I seek most.

Posted by Lucky 2004-11-15 11:08:46 AM|| 2004-11-15 11:08:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#38 well I like Sullys site, though RB doesnt have to be like it. He still makes good points.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-15 11:23:55 AM|| 2004-11-15 11:23:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#39 Sullivan isn't one of us anymore--he traded his entire belief system for the (alleged) "right" to gay marriage.

Posted by Crusader 2004-11-15 12:04:25 PM|| 2004-11-15 12:04:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Sully showed his true colors this spring when he turned his site into All Abu Ghraib, All The Time. He's of course a smart guy and has interesting opinions but he lacks the two indispensable attributes for winning this war: fortitude and measured judgment. With his weeks of hysterics about this minor scandal, he threw out years of credit earned by attacking MSM spin and cluelessness. Perhaps he has some kind of deep sexual phobia related to humiliation, bondage, etc. Whatever, the man simply is not a reliable guide to military matters of any kind.

He typifies the great defect of the smarter academic types who never served in the military, namely their delusions that complex operations are not attended by enormous uncertainty, that information is anything other than partial and insufficient (and cannot made to be sufficient), and that transatlantic elite media buzz is equivalent to "moral high ground."

I'll take the judgment of a sober, clear-eyed vet, or for that matter a truly wise observer like Tom Wretchard, over Sullivan or Dresner or the Oxford boys any day. Which is why I now spend more time on Rantburg in a day than I do on Sully in a month.

Posted by lex 2004-11-15 12:15:53 PM|| 2004-11-15 12:15:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 OK WoT! - Who is Colin Powell's replacement, and how would each of these potential persons affect the path on the WoT?

Condoleeza Rice
John Danforth
Rudy Giuliani
anyone else?

By the way - GWB now over 61 million pop votes...
Yes the election is over, but it is an interesting number...

Posted by BigEd 2004-11-15 12:45:25 PM|| 2004-11-15 12:45:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 First, while wretchard does some ok stuff on military affairs, he also tends to be overly certain about how clear everything is.

And he tends to miss the broader political side. Oxblog and Drezner and Belgravia Dispatch all get that much better than he does. (And btw, Abu Graib WAS a disaster, though I dont assign nearly as much blame to Rummy as Sully does)

And Sully had a good point today, re shifting of forces between Fallujah and Mosul.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-15 2:00:26 PM|| 2004-11-15 2:00:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Emily wrote: "We're starting to see a decline both of "civil, well reasoned discourse" and useful hard news about the WoT lately here at RB. I'm getting tired of the stories about bias in the media, looney lefties, and so on. We GET IT, already, and there's plenty of blogs that discuss that stuff. I'm also concerned that the formerly high level of intelligent discussion has suffered lately. There's too much cussing and intolerance, and I worry that new readers will simply surf on by rather than stay and add to the fun."

WADR, I disagree with much of this. The "civil, well reasoned discourse" line is next to a picture of a guy dishing out a beating. That's an attractive feature here -- people willing to dish out a rhetorical beating. As for items on media bias, left-wing loonies and the like, I hope to see less of that now that the election is over. However, all of those things directly implicated the WoT in that had the MSM and the left gotten their way, the wrong guy would have been leading the WoT, and many of us were deeply concerned about the message that would have been sent by the defeat of President Bush. Going forward, I agree that Scott Peterson and cloned animal stories should be off limits, but stories of MSM bias and left-wing loonery that impact the WoT are definitely ON POINT.

Sorry for the rant. This still is RANTburg, right?

P.S. - None of my smart-assery is meant to diminish the important contributions of Fred and the rest of the editorial board. Keep up the good work.

P.P.S. - I like cussing.

Posted by Tibor 2004-11-15 2:09:30 PM|| 2004-11-15 2:09:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Bull Tweed! As long as the commie Left remains delusional (and, in so doing, poses undue risk to the realistic and pragmatic Rantburg community) about the WoT, we must continue to roll up our pant legs and wade through the murky refuse produced by those who do us harm from within.

Consider the harmful affects of Abu Ghraib caused by MSM, the not so anonymous, Mr. Anonymous on Tick-Tock (60 Minutes) last evening, the hatchet job on Peter Goss at CIA by Wapo and NY Slimes.

I suggest that the presidential election campaign is finished, but the internal struggle continues with a direct impact on the WoT.

---- Good Day ----

Posted by Capt America 2004-11-15 4:07:37 PM|| 2004-11-15 4:07:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 WOT is a war on many fronts, but a little focus can't hurt. Seems like a good time to thank Fred and all assembled for the education my pre-9/11 life didn't provide. Rant on

Posted by VAMark 2004-11-15 5:08:39 PM|| 2004-11-15 5:08:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 These liberals who are whining about the electin like they did in 2000 are aiding the enemy.

Posted by political 2004-11-15 7:16:41 PM|| [http://www.political-news.org] 2004-11-15 7:16:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 If I'm too rude, crude, and raunchy for RB, then I assume Fred will tell me - he has my email and isn't known for his shy retiring demeanor, sorry Fred - it's true, lol!

My philosophy - yes I have one on this topic, having raised a daughter single-handedly for over a decade:
Words are only words. Each reader / listener attaches meaning and reacts, each absolutely individually. That reaction is their own responsibility, period. If you let someone push your buttons by remote control, then who's at fault? Who's the fool? Hell, I love word-controllable people! I have many chores I'd like to farm out. And their angry response? Depends upon the source. Some a yawn, some a laugh, some a sarcastic reply, some a vituperative attack. Just depends on what will effectively communicate what I want to communicate.

Re: Terror, War on.
Is this a topic for PC-ized erudite and urbane witticisms? Hardly, IMHO. If it is, then I've misread everything about RB from Day One. I think it's actually about violence - real raw unciviliazed violence which ranges from cutting off heads to genocide. If I utter some "fucks" along the way, is that too much? Words?

Fred: Tell me to buzz the fuck off and you've got it.

Just my day-long considered response.

Posted by .com 2004-11-15 10:12:12 PM|| 2004-11-15 10:12:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 I'm with PD - I understand we need to let the politics die down and focus on the WOT, but if my comments are too rough, let me know and I'll go elsewhere

Posted by Frank G 2004-11-15 10:17:32 PM|| 2004-11-15 10:17:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 I think, from his post, Frank would agree with this:

You have to get personal to skeer us off!

Posted by .com 2004-11-15 10:31:32 PM|| 2004-11-15 10:31:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 yep

Posted by Frank G 2004-11-15 10:36:22 PM|| 2004-11-15 10:36:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 Who said anything about scaring...or leaving?!!!

Never that, Frank and PD. I respect everyone here far too much and value everyone's opinion. Not to mention you all make me laugh out loud!

This is the standard memo that must be issued ~~and ignored~~ from time to time from HQ. No doubt you'll see some form of it again sometime around the New Year. Just remember we have a wide audience and that words sometimes look different on the screen than they sound in your head when you're typing...

Carry on. And thank you Fred.

Posted by Seafarious 2004-11-15 10:44:38 PM|| 2004-11-15 10:44:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 ~~Whew!~~ Well, that's more like it Sea, harrumph, heh.

(Frank - I won't let on we were bluffing if you won't, heh...)

Posted by .com 2004-11-15 10:52:16 PM|| 2004-11-15 10:52:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 that was my Jen imitation?

Posted by Frank G 2004-11-15 10:53:58 PM|| 2004-11-15 10:53:58 PM|| Front Page Top

00:14 JosephMendiola
00:05 Rafael
23:58 JosephMendiola
23:56 .com
23:52 someone
23:49 someone
23:49 Frank G
23:47 A Jackson
23:45 .com
23:45 Frank G
23:44 A Jackson
23:42 A Jackson
23:37 Alaska Paul
23:37 .com
23:36 A Jackson
23:32 Dishman
23:28 phil_b
23:23 TopMac
23:22 Tibor
23:20 Frank G
23:15 Alaska Paul
23:07 CrazyFool
23:06 Mark Espinola
23:06 Kalle (kafir forever)