Article

2004-11-10 Europe

Dutch Islamic school set ablaze (Dhimmitude pgm not going well?)

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Posted by .com 2004-11-10 00:58|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 In the early 80's, shortly after the embassy adventure in Tehran, I had a Dutch exchange student live with me. He had a bumper sticker on his suitcase that said, in Dutch, "Make Iran a Parking Lot". He is 40ish now, and in reviewing recent events, I suspect I know where he stands. I think there might be a little less love in Holland for these Jihadists than they are accustomed to in the EU.

Posted by Beau 2004-11-10 1:16:06 AM|| 2004-11-10 1:16:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 The Dutch are a very practical people. They understand clearly when their way of life is being f*cked with. Killing a dutchman on his bicycle was a bridge to far for the Dutch jihadi tendency.

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2004-11-10 1:37:08 AM|| 2004-11-10 1:37:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Part of The Hague sealed after SWAT team entered terrist safe house.....explosions heared 3 agents wounded.....

Posted by Dutchgeek 2004-11-10 2:41:06 AM|| 2004-11-10 2:41:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 like i have said b4 , once the far right dutch start mobilizing then the poor old Jihadis are in for a rough time in Holland .

Posted by MacNails 2004-11-10 3:39:59 AM|| 2004-11-10 3:39:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 But we've lost our balls in the UK..

Posted by Howard UK 2004-11-10 3:46:26 AM|| 2004-11-10 3:46:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Three officers wounded two severely by a handgrenade thrown from a house in The Hague, a shitload of police, swat an marines are being directed to The Hague as we speak, one person arrested more are suspected to be present in the building that the grenade was thrown from, airspace over The Hague closed. One person of Morrrocan origin said to have infiltrated intekkigence services and to have informed the killer of Van Gogh that he was being watched.

Posted by Heysenbergwashere 2004-11-10 4:42:14 AM|| 2004-11-10 4:42:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Intekkigence service ??

Posted by Heysenbergwashere 2004-11-10 4:47:23 AM|| 2004-11-10 4:47:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 "Send lawyers, guns, and money: the shit has hit the fan"
(with apologies to Jimmy Buffet)

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-11-10 4:52:46 AM|| 2004-11-10 4:52:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Wasn't that Warren Zevon AC?

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-11-10 5:25:48 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-11-10 5:25:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Could be, SPOD. My memory is a little fuzzy at times.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-11-10 5:39:42 AM|| 2004-11-10 5:39:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Difinetly Zevon, if there is to be an EU, put the Dutch in charge

Posted by Cheaderhead 2004-11-10 6:16:02 AM|| 2004-11-10 6:16:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Sounds like the Danes are a little pissed.

Posted by raptor 2004-11-10 6:33:16 AM|| 2004-11-10 6:33:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 I hope that be irony raptor!

Posted by Howard UK 2004-11-10 9:06:37 AM|| 2004-11-10 9:06:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 I think islam is as dumb and dangerous religion as a religion can get and I think that we should definitely take all steps, legal,rhetorical, and when necessary military to stop its spread in the West. But torching an elementary school is just fecking shameful. I dont care if there were no students inside. The right wingers there are on a rapid downward slide to same regions where the islamofascists slither.

And the Europeans have the @@#$$%! NERVE to call us Americans uncivilized???

Posted by peggy 2004-11-10 10:11:21 AM|| 2004-11-10 10:11:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Excellent point Peggy -- 3,000 American dead and there were no schools torched here.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-11-10 10:15:51 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-11-10 10:15:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Torching schools is bad practice any way you look at it.
However, that said, i would not mind seeing new dutch legislation giving the interior office the authority to immediately deport any Islamic person practicing incitement, anti-Dutch propaganda or who publicly call for violence (including any person or fake Imam who issues any Fatwa whatsoever).
The Dutch must decide now if the want a democracy
or a Sharia run state !

Posted by Elder of Zion 2004-11-10 10:38:38 AM|| 2004-11-10 10:38:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 But torching an elementary school is just fecking shameful. I dont care if there were no students inside.

It beats sawing heads off.

It is a reflection of the lack of confidence in the government to protect the people. What would the U. S. reaction have been if Gore had been president and had played with himself and Chiraq for 6 months instead of attacking Afghanistan a month later?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-10 10:43:55 AM|| 2004-11-10 10:43:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 vigilantism, big-time

Posted by Frank G 2004-11-10 10:51:48 AM|| 2004-11-10 10:51:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Bulldog and Howard may be able to better vouch for this but it is my understanding that next to the Brits the biggest bunch of soccer hooligans are the Dutch. There are a lot of racial epithets thrown around at their games. So it is not surprising that there would be a "skinhead element backlash" like this.

Posted by Jack is Back! 2004-11-10 11:25:00 AM|| 2004-11-10 11:25:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 I'm sure I'll take heat for saying so, but I believe that the torching of the Islamic school (while unoccupied) was simply some Dutch folks determination that the Muslims are *NOT* going to sit around in their county WITHOUT assimilating.

Blow them all up (while unoccupied) for all I care.

Posted by Crusader 2004-11-10 11:36:05 AM|| 2004-11-10 11:36:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Theo Van Gogh had more courage and truthtelling in his film than bigtime America or UK pc correcto trash such as hack Tom Clancy, in the "flim" with Ben Affleck, changed the identity of the A-Bombing of USA from Arabs to white Euronazis. Don't forget the original crime with feelgood reactions to over-reactions.

Posted by Erik 2004-11-10 11:36:07 AM|| 2004-11-10 11:36:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Hey!-- Don't you just love America? All of us "red staters" (whom the left accuses of being bigoted red necks), in our homes, abiding by the rule of law, talking to each other on the internet instead of burning down schools . . . I agree with peggy.

The Dutch can be extreme, wild. They ruled Indonesia for 400 years (and some of them weren't very "nice," either). Not surprising what happened in retaliation to the murder of Van Gogh, but I'm still saddened that the hot-heads/skin-heads will now assume they have an "excuse" any and all for unjust actions (like the elementary school fire).

OTOH, and IMHO, if Norway gets fed up, there should be real cause for concern (among Moslems). Practical, hardboiled, pragmatic--I think the Norwegians are a kind of social barometer over there. Keep an eye on them for a more accurate "pulse" on the Northmen.

BTW--my take is that Van Gogh would be considered a troll if he posted his viewpoints on Rantburg. He was kind of a jerk. He shouldn't have been murdered, but he was saying a lot of completely outrageous things. An anti-Moslem Boris, Murat or Antiwar type on steroids.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-11-10 11:43:54 AM|| 2004-11-10 11:43:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 I wouldn't want to see Murat dead. And I'm not sure the comparison is fair to Murat. He's civil, if wrong. Boris, on the other hand...

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-10 11:51:32 AM|| 2004-11-10 11:51:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 Sorry to be a contrarian, but I think the Euros are screwed here, no matter their response. They simply cannot grasp that the only real solution here is the American one: respect people of faith, give them real economic opportunities in a growing economy, and leave them alone.

We have used this formula brilliantly throughout our history to attract hardworking, business-savvy religious minorities, from the Quakers and the mennonites in PA to the mormons in the west and Dutch reformed in MI to hasidim in NY and Iraqi Chaldeans in Dearborn MI to sikhs and Korean moonies and fundamentalists in California. These religious minorities work hard hard and yet preserve their religious distinctiveness. We welcome the latter because it accompanies and supports their work ethic and their economic contribution.

The Euros' problem is that, instead of strivers, they brought in millions of islamist resenters from Africa and the middle east, ie people who are more concerned with attacking jews and their own women than they are with building businesses and social networks that help their own to succeed. Compounding the problem is the limited access to capital and the myriad difficulties facing small entrepreneurs.

Trouble ahead. Get ready for another wave of European emigration to the US, this time the good European muslims, the strivers who will find in the US plenty of tolerance, opportunity and above all, no state interference. Bring them here, the more strivers the better.

Posted by lex 2004-11-10 12:04:11 PM|| 2004-11-10 12:04:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Missing an element there, lex. It's not only what they get from America; it's what they give to America. Look at the oath of citizenship.

Posted by Jules 187 2004-11-10 12:08:20 PM|| 2004-11-10 12:08:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 OATH OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Posted by Jules 187 2004-11-10 12:10:23 PM|| 2004-11-10 12:10:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Not sure I understand your question,Howard.

Posted by raptor 2004-11-10 12:12:13 PM|| 2004-11-10 12:12:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Who wants to see Murat DEAD, Mrs. Davis? I was speaking of the high-charged vitriol that often characterizes his, and other trolls' posts, being like that of Van Gogh in some ways. This is the point: if Van Gogh had been more prudent in his speech, he may have had the chance to educate people on the dangers of Islam for years to come. If you're gonna play to win, you gotta play smart. Okay? Is that clear now?

Posted by ex-lib 2004-11-10 12:14:25 PM|| 2004-11-10 12:14:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Yes sir, ex-lib, sir.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-10 12:17:02 PM|| 2004-11-10 12:17:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 IMHO if you look at the range of his oeuvre, if that's the right word, it seems clear that Theo Van Gogh was part of the problem. He spewed hatred and contempt for religion and for ordinary people no matter what their faith. This is the sort of bile that's become not just respectable in art circles but even de rigeur.

The grand irony here is that his great grandfather Vincent, an artist with real talent and inspiration, was despite his avant-garde techniques a man of profound humanity who had deep respect for ordinary people and their faith. Here's Vincent's description of one of his more famous, pre-expressionist paintings, The Potato Eaters: http://www.vangoghgallery.com/visitors/004.htm

"I wanted to convey the idea that the people eating potatoes by the light of an oil lamp used the same hands with which they take food from the plate to work the land, that they have toiled with their hands--that they have earned their food by honest means"

Note the following: Respect for ordinary people. Humility. A sense of the sacredness of work and family. And not least, real artistic skill. All of the above are sorely lacking among Europe's idiotarian cultural elites, of whom Theo Van Gogh was a card-carrying member.

Posted by lex 2004-11-10 12:29:17 PM|| 2004-11-10 12:29:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 At some point, coming soon to a venue near you, a new vocabulary, a new paradigm of discussion and reasoning must become the norm. It will be correctly devoid of Western values-laden finger-wag phrases. It will be realspeak.

It won't compare the sources of Islam's real power, in this case one of their indoctrination centers (a.k.a. schools - perhaps better described as madrassahs which carries the far more accurate connotation, no?) to the nice little Thomas Jefferson Elementary school a few blocks from home.

It won't keep confusing what you know and accept in your daily life with superficially similar things in Islam. It will teach Westerners, the hard way, no doubt, as this thread indicates is needed so clearly, that the similarity is, indeed, superficial - an exceptionally easy mistake to make - and dangerous beyond your wildest dreams...

Let's start to "get it" and the first step is to stop thinking Western - and start learning to think as they do - then the case becomes quite clear: this incident is an attack on an indoctrination center - and if duplicated country-wide, would be a good step toward pulling the asshats' Islamist Dominion Dreams in the Netherlands out by the roots.

I you don't follow my thinking, a few suggestions... For example, think: Beslan. Think: no more, ever again. Think: get rid of Islam - send the Wahhabists and their bought-&-paid-for minions and apologists packing. Think: freedom does not mean you can use my freedoms against me.

Just my $0.02. Think what you will.

Posted by .com 2004-11-10 3:05:27 PM|| 2004-11-10 3:05:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 I do not know the funding sources for these Dutch mosques, but I will bet a guilder that it is from Wahhabists in Saudi Arabia. THERE is where our enemy is, and where he has always been. Everything points to funding in either SA or Iran. We (the western world) are funding our own destruction with our petrodollars (petroeuros). The solution, of course, is to deny the Wahhhabists their money, and that means take them out or take away their source of funds and that is Saudi oil. There is where at least 2/3 of the solution lies. Then all the bad-ass madrassahs will go away and so will the hard core islamists, because there is no money to keep them operating.

Saudi Arabia is our enemy, and I see no real effort on their part to address this Islamist terrorist funding issue, just window dressing so far.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-11-10 4:47:42 PM|| 2004-11-10 4:47:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 And I'm not sure the comparison is fair to Murat. He's civil, if wrong

Were you here when he rejoiced at the fact it was "raining dead American soldiers" after that helicopter crash killing 17 Americans???

Posted by Rafael 2004-11-10 5:06:22 PM|| 2004-11-10 5:06:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#34

Alaska Paul #32:

I'm of the opinion that the only long-term solution will be for the US and the Russians to determine to "jointly manage" the Saudi oil fields. Its only a matter of years until the house of Saud falls upon itself, and I'm sure that we have a contingency plan in place so that we can take the oil fields when that happens.

If Europe doesn't like being left out, I don't know what they could do about it.

Posted by Crusader 2004-11-10 5:21:42 PM|| 2004-11-10 5:21:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 [T]he only real solution here is the American one ....

I couldn't agree more lex but you have to remember that the American solution only works when immigrants actually assimilate into their new society. Large scale immigration gives rise to a critical mass that breeds highly insular immigrant communities in which the traditions, customs, and beliefs brought by the immigrants are kept alive.

In the case of Muslims, even if a large majority are moderates and strivers, their reflexive adherence to the role of a minority of hardlines may well prevent their effective assimilation into western societies. Given that you simply can't filter out all of the hardliners, the only real solution is a drastic reduction of Muslim immigration until such a time as those who've already immigrated are sufficiently assimilated. That process could take generations.

Posted by AzCat 2004-11-10 6:59:39 PM|| 2004-11-10 6:59:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Crusader - explain where (the fuck) the Russians come into play regards SA, lol! You wanna bring Tsar Putty, our great fucking ally, into it?

WHY, pray tell? They can't even manage their own production - as their infrastructure ages and crumbles and production falls - because no one is interested in maintenance or facility upgrade. Piss-poor to non-existant management of Russia's resources - no way should they be involved in managing what is now referred to as Saudi resources.

Get rid of Putty, put someone in his place who actually wants a representative / republican form of democracy, and we'll talk. Putty is not your friend (unless you're part of his coterie and fan club, of course) and he is no one's ally. Putty is taking care of Putty's interests and dragging Russia back into the Bad Old Days. Prove me wrong. Please. Given the recent coup where he gained the "authority" to appoint (rather than allow the Russians to elect) the governing officials in the provinces, you're shit out of luck, methinks. Putty's a dick, yet he sucks, IMHO.

I would absolutely trust no other gov'ts except for our current participating allies in Iraq, people who've put boots on the ground, to assist in managing SA assets should we decide to take them away. Everyone else can piss up a rope.

Posted by .com 2004-11-10 7:10:45 PM|| 2004-11-10 7:10:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 May I recommend cbsnews.com -- go to video and watch the feed on the Dutch situation under World news. The Islamotwerps REALLY picked the wrong back yard to start a fight in.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-11-10 8:47:56 PM|| 2004-11-10 8:47:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Given the recent coup where he gained the "authority" to appoint (rather than allow the Russians to elect) the governing officials in the provinces...

Since I don't yet see Putin as a tyrant, I'll go ahead and make this one excuse on his behalf: I suspect that this was a desperate attempt to keep the Russian "empire" intact, such that it is, and to prevent any ideas of secession taking hold. Chechnya is really a litmus test. Forgetting for the moment about Chechnya's natural resources, if Chechnya was allowed to secede, the rest of the semi-autonomous republics to the east of Moscow would follow. This of course is not acceptable to Moscow. And hence Putin did what he had to do.

Posted by Rafael 2004-11-10 8:58:52 PM|| 2004-11-10 8:58:52 PM|| Front Page Top

01:54 gromky
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