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2004-10-13 Iraq-Jordan

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Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-13 2:51:46 AM|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Very, very interesting.

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-10-13 3:29:03 AM|| 2004-10-13 3:29:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Don't hold your breath. That being said, I strongly suspect Germany has been extremely helpful under the table. I wonder how much of the anti-war stance has been for public consumption?

Posted by N guard 2004-10-13 7:22:19 AM|| 2004-10-13 7:22:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Yesterday on CSPAN radio i heard the French ambassador saying they would NOT send troops to Iraq, because more foreign troops would make things worse, making it more of an occupation, whats best is to train Iraqis. Which kind of misses John Kerrys point, which is that when French (or German) troops come in, US troop levels would go down. I think France and Germany are caught between a rock and hard place - the desire to help Kerry, who i think they do prefer of Dubya, versus their domestic (and esp in the case of France, international) reasons to stay out of Iraq.

Like N guard, i wont be holding my breath. But i do find the maneuvering interesting. Thanks for the info, TGA.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-10-13 9:12:18 AM|| 2004-10-13 9:12:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Lots of weasel words (might, if, no binding statement about the future (terribly profound, that bit)). This is just to help Kerry.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-10-13 9:23:52 AM|| 2004-10-13 9:23:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Lots of weasel words..

Well, what did you expect from weaselly "leadership"? :)

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-10-13 10:49:16 AM|| 2004-10-13 10:49:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 John Edwards, in an answer on Russert's(?) show, mentioned that (paraphrasing): 1) the French and Germans might come in if the Iraqis forces had been trained. 2)The US should make training Irqis a priority.

Don't know if the two comments were independent or Struck built on to Edward's, but it is an interesting coincidence.

Posted by Pappy 2004-10-13 11:23:01 AM|| 2004-10-13 11:23:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 but the frog ambassador says training Iraqis is the SUBSTITUTE for more troops, which is essentially the admin line. Someones not in the loop.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-10-13 11:27:23 AM|| 2004-10-13 11:27:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Nice try, mein freunden, but it won't work. Germany and France have zero credibility with most Americans on this front.

Posted by lex 2004-10-13 2:36:31 PM|| 2004-10-13 2:36:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Let me try to explain this a little bit:

What Struck said was a sort of "Versuchsballon" (test balloon), to test German public opinion. That's why he chose the Financial Times, to let it slowly filter in. Should there be a public outcry... well he left himself all the wiggle room he needs and can always claim to have been "quoted out of context". Should the outcry be moderate (it has been for now), get ready for the next move.

Of course, don't hold your breath. But German troops would never have played a major role in Iraq, even with a most Bush-friendly Germany. Thios was always about symbolics (Kerry foolishly misses that point.

What is Struck's message about? Germany wants a stable Iraq, Germany doesn't want a failed Iraq just to weaken the U.S. (which is what the French want). Of course Germany also wants its part in the reconstruction.

Germany has already pledged to do more for the stability in the Middle East, it will do more in Afghanistan and it will try to help in Iraq.

Germany doesn't believe in ideology and vain multipolar dreams, it believes in Realpolitik.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-13 5:32:28 PM|| 2004-10-13 5:32:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 TGA I don't expect that Germany do much. Germany doesn't have the military structure to help much at all. It would be nice if German would put some more visable distance between France and Germany on this issue. As you note all France is interested in is damaging the United States. Germany needs to point this out in public. France can't retailate is needs German markets.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-10-13 5:39:41 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-10-13 5:39:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 TGA's probably right, but frankly, this is far too little, far too late, and I seriously doubt that anyone in America really cares anymore. The truly critical actions in Iraq are underway right now in Fallujah, Ramalla etc. What France or Germany might do many months from now with a handful fo troops simply is of no consequence to anyone besides the Kerry campaign spinners.

Posted by lex 2004-10-13 5:48:30 PM|| 2004-10-13 5:48:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Schroeder has already shot down the balloon.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-10-13 5:49:27 PM|| 2004-10-13 5:49:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Didn't even manage one media cycle. Yawn.

Posted by lex 2004-10-13 5:55:13 PM|| 2004-10-13 5:55:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Let's see how many media circles Schroeder will survive.
Struck's remarks were on every top German paper but I haven't seen a public outcry.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-13 5:59:24 PM|| 2004-10-13 5:59:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Germany rejects U.S. plan for NATO in Afghanistan

TGA, does Schroeder get paid more by Germany or France?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-10-13 6:04:56 PM|| 2004-10-13 6:04:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I have given up on SchrÃ¶der a long time ago

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-13 7:27:39 PM|| 2004-10-13 7:27:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 TGA, Being from California under Gray-out Davis, I can sympathize. We only waited about 6 months to decide it made a mistake and bring in the Governator. Perhaps Germany should hold a recall and start a bidding war.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-10-13 7:43:36 PM|| 2004-10-13 7:43:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 You were lucky to have this choice in California. And from what I hear Arnie has exceeded any expectations, right?

Unfortunately the German opposition isn't looking very well, either.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-13 7:55:34 PM|| 2004-10-13 7:55:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 So far Arnie has surprised me by how well he has done; but we may just be having an extended honeymoon. What about Stoiber?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-10-13 7:59:42 PM|| 2004-10-13 7:59:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 In the midst of a power struggle between CDU and CSU.

Stoiber has an excellent track record in Bavaria, Merkel has been taking in water lately.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-13 8:04:00 PM|| 2004-10-13 8:04:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 I don't expect that Germany do much. Germany doesn't have the military structure to help much at all

True enough if you mean deployable troops and equipment. But there were German troops protecting bases in Germany and Schroeder made a big point of announcing they would be withdrawn - in order not to take any pressure off of the US army's strength elsewhere.

Anyone know how that has played out?

Frankly, I'm not sure that existing German troops would in fact respond well in a combat situation ... events in e.g. the Balkans suggest they wouldn't do the job when the job needed doing if conflict was involved - as it tends to be on occasion, even in peacekeeping roles.

Note: I'm not saying that with glee, but rather with resignation.

Posted by Robin Burk 2004-10-13 8:39:53 PM|| 2004-10-13 8:39:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Yup. Right. Totenkopf Division being transferred from the Eastern Front I suppose...

Posted by borgboy 2004-10-13 8:41:10 PM|| 2004-10-13 8:41:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 RB, It is astounding to me that fighting ability of the German soldier is so low. How, when and why did that happen?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-10-13 8:47:23 PM|| 2004-10-13 8:47:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 TGA - Arnie has far exceeded expectations and would win re-election by 70% vote, I can assure you. Like other politicians (hint, hint) he has been misunderestimated

Posted by Frank G 2004-10-13 9:40:27 PM|| 2004-10-13 9:40:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Arnie offers the combination of social liberalism and fiscal intelligence, combined with a healthy disdain for the reactionary elements in both parties (Dem unions + trial lawyers, Repub fundamentalists), that is the path to political dominance in this country.

A Giuliani/Schwarzennegerite Republican party would command 60%+ of the national popular vote and at least 300 electoral college votes.

Posted by lex 2004-10-13 11:43:46 PM|| 2004-10-13 11:43:46 PM|| Front Page Top

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