Article

2004-07-06 Iraq-Jordan

U.S. to Release 300 Abu Ghraib Prisoners

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Posted by Steve White 2004-07-06 12:44:21 AM|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 If those released were criminals, then turn them over to the Iraqis. Let them decide if they want thieves, kidnappers, rapists and murderers walking free.

If those released were those taking shots or planting bombs, then shame on the US authorities for bowing to PC political and media pressure, and giving those dirtbags another chance to kill troops and Iraqi citizens.

If I was a soldier in Iraq, I would do my damnedest to make sure anyone attacking me dies in combat and does not have a chance to surrender.

Posted by ed 2004-07-06 6:44:51 AM|| 2004-07-06 6:44:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I think most of these prisoners are being released because we have no real evidence that they are criminals, terrorists or insurgents.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-07-06 7:14:49 AM|| 2004-07-06 7:14:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Is that right, Mike? Where did you learn that tidbit? We wouldn't capture, ship thousands of miles, and hold them at great cost for months if they had no evidence. The ones released must have no value and not worth detaining. I'd let it be known that we were sending back some spys among the released...

Posted by Frank G 2004-07-06 8:19:21 AM|| 2004-07-06 8:19:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 According to common wisdom in this forum, they wouldn't have been suspected of doing something if they hadn't really done it.

That's why every prisoner is automatically guilty. And that's why torture and humiliation is justified -- because it's all done only to terrorists, as no innocent would *ever* be jailed by US troops.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-07-06 8:21:32 AM|| 2004-07-06 8:21:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Actually I was speaking of Gitmo. At Abu Grahib, I'm sure some criminals were picked up among the terrorists, and as you know, Aris, criminals are usually released after serving their time - at least in Amerikkka

Posted by Frank G 2004-07-06 8:30:20 AM|| 2004-07-06 8:30:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#6
# 3: Is that right, Mike? Where did you learn that tidbit?

My opinion is based on many articles that I have posted here. I suppose many of the released prisoners indeed are criminals, terrorists or insurgents, but we have no real evidence that they are. And I suppose that many indeed are not criminals, terrorists or insurgents.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-07-06 8:37:26 AM|| 2004-07-06 8:37:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 and as you know, Aris, criminals are usually released after serving their time - at least in Amerikkka

I'm pretty sure that we can't apply to the prisons of Iraq what happens to "Amerikkka" (as you call it). Afterall, atleast in "Amerikkka", prisoners also get the right to a trial. And the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-07-06 8:41:52 AM|| 2004-07-06 8:41:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 About half of the prisoners at Abu Graib were there for crimes, but often they are both. Is the kidnapper threatening doctors also trying to bring the Baath back to power? Still, I think it best to turn them (especially those arrested for crimes early in the occupation) over to the new Iraqi government, for them to decide.

There are several levels of filtration before a detainee gets to Abu Graib. At the site a raid, if an interpreter is available, detainees are cursorily questioned and those determined to not be involved are released. Next at base camp, more probing questions are asked to determine if they are telling the truth, if their story matches what others are saying, and checked for physical evidence, such at explosive residue. I have been reading accounts of raids where up to half are released, primarily because of lack of physical evidence. Only then are they sent to a prison such as Abu Graib. The only class of prisoner I would worry about are those Iraqi informants identified as a hostile/terrorist for political purposes or to settle old scores, and arrested with no corroborating evidence.

Iraq is not Greece and there is a terrorist war going on. Do you think those making and blowing up car bombs should be go through the same procedure as a pickpocket in Athens? Or should they be shot as non-uniformed, unprotected (per Geneva Convention) terrorists, saboteurs and spies?

I am a firm believer in reciprocity. If our Islamic enemies torture or execute our people, then torture and execute theirs. If they bomb or fly airplanes into our buildings, bomb their buildings and mosques. If they insist on making war to kill, convert and pillage, then â¦ well you get the idea.

Posted by ed 2004-07-06 9:30:43 AM|| 2004-07-06 9:30:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Ed, I'm liking what I'm hearing, keep up the good rants.

Posted by Jarhead 2004-07-06 10:06:58 AM|| 2004-07-06 10:06:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Ed> Do you think those making and blowing up car bombs should be go through the same procedure as a pickpocket in Athens?

I have no interest in what happens or what doesn't happen to those making and blowing up car bombs as long as they are put away where they can't harm more people.

My interest in in what happens to the possibly innocent. The people who are only "suspected" of doing things.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-07-06 10:11:59 AM|| 2004-07-06 10:11:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 like the "innocent" with explosive residue on his hands?

Posted by Frank G 2004-07-06 10:19:40 AM|| 2004-07-06 10:19:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Fine. Try them when the Iraqi courts are up and have the capacity. But donât summarily release them, only to have them go back to shooting at troops or bombing Iraqis.

I remenber seeing news video of the first release and released prisoners bragging that they were insurgents and would return to attacking US forces. I am sure they were also bombing Iraqis, but wouldn't admit it on camera since they have to live with those they bombed.

Posted by ed 2004-07-06 10:31:20 AM|| 2004-07-06 10:31:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 like the "innocent" with explosive residue on his hands?

Frank, yesterday you made yourself clear about where you think I stand, and I made my contempt for you and for your beliefs in me likewise clear.

As such, there's no need for your mutually demeaning game of pretending to be thick at understanding and insulting in your implications. You think I support the jihadis, and I think that, in order to believe that, you must be too stupid for words.

Can we move on now?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-07-06 10:47:55 AM|| 2004-07-06 10:47:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 AK: You think I support the jihadis, and I think that, in order to believe that, you must be too stupid for words.

Actually, we already know you think we're stupid - stupid enough to believe that you are actually not a jihadi supporter (although it should be said that this is more of a marriage of convenience - like the Soviet alliance with Nazi Germany before hostilities broke out).

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-07-06 1:41:33 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-07-06 1:41:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 ship thousands of miles

These are abu ghraib prisoners, NOT gitmo prisoners. If we're shipping them thousands of miles, somebody in Iraq had better learn to read a map!!

IIUC, we go raid a house, we find illegal weapons, papers etc we arrest all the adult males in the house. At some point we may find that somebody really didnt know what his brother in law (or whomever) was doing. 300 out of 5500? Easy. Makes perfect sense to release him. Or maybe we're releasing em on other grounds. Lets see what the US military says. I for one, am NOT willing to assume the worst about the US military.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-06 2:04:28 PM|| 2004-07-06 2:04:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Zhang Fei> "Actually, we already know you think we're stupid - stupid enough to believe that you are actually not a jihadi supporter"

I see how that logic works -- for example yesterday I was urging for Sadr's *death* so obviously I was supporting him. Frank G. on the other hand said that we must leave him alive, so Frank's clearly a fierce opponent of the Jihadis instead.

You know, I disagreed with the invasion of Iraq, but I was never stupid enough to say that the people urging for Saddam's overthrow were in reality his allies. That level of abject stupidity belongs only to you and Frank.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-07-06 2:32:41 PM|| 2004-07-06 2:32:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Hmmmmm....... a thought experiment
Aris the sky here is
80 percent cyan
10 percent yelo
+ 5 percent magenta on the boundary.

Would you call that Blue or Blue like?

Posted by Shipman 2004-07-06 4:07:30 PM|| 2004-07-06 4:07:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Heh heh. Sadr dead works for me, Aris. You've lost me in your "logic" there. I don't think I'm inconsistent in my bloodthirsty Neocon pro-Israel Hawkishness....

Posted by Frank G 2004-07-06 4:14:01 PM|| 2004-07-06 4:14:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Frank> Sadr dead works for me, Aris.

Yesterday you said that "Sadr dead is a martyr" and you seemed to think it a bad idea.

A flip-flopper, I see. Or more probably a conformist -- checking the other thread today you probably noticed that most Rantburgers favour Sadr dead also. Follow the crowds, Frank, follow the crowds.

You've lost me in your "logic" there.

It's you (plural) who claimed me a jihadi-ally, so I think it falls on you (plural) to explain how someone who's been consistently urging for the demise of jihadis (not just in Iraq but in Israel also) is an ally of them.

That insanity is yours.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-07-06 4:39:42 PM|| 2004-07-06 4:39:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 quite possibly so :-)
I think a martyred Sadr does short-term ill, long-term good. I don't recall specifically accusing you of allying with Jihadis.... I do however believe that you take satisfaction of a sort when the US takes a couple dead soldiers. If that is wrong, I apologize

Posted by Frank G 2004-07-06 4:45:18 PM|| 2004-07-06 4:45:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Frank> If that is wrong, I apologize

So let me make it clear to you: There's never been a single American, in or outside the armed forces, whose death I took satisfaction over. Not a single one.

I took satisfaction over the death of Yassin and Rantissi. And if you want to find something possibly objectionable: I took satisfaction over the death of "president" Kadyrov, since in that conflict I think the Russians are worse than the Chechens.

Perhaps Zhang Fei is holding my views on Chechenya against me or something. Or perhaps he's just even worse than you.

No comment on the "apology". Calling me an idiot would have been one thing, but it takes me a bit longer than that to cool down after being presented as pure evil that wishes ill on Iraq.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-07-06 5:21:32 PM|| 2004-07-06 5:21:32 PM|| Front Page Top

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