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2004-05-22 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by tipper 2004-05-22 2:42:18 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Amen..

Posted by Halfass Pete 2004-05-22 3:04:48 AM|| 2004-05-22 3:04:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I'll second that.

Posted by Evert V. in NL 2004-05-22 3:56:03 AM|| [http://srv.fotopages.com/?o=935389&t=2] 2004-05-22 3:56:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 I am a former Infantry Company Comander in the US Army. I agree that some "green tab" officer heads should roll.

But - in everything I have read and seen about this mess, I have yet to EVER hear a call for holding accountable the two people that I would expect to see raked over the coals - the Company First Sergeant, and the Battalion CSM. These individuals were either lazy beyond belief -"retired on active duty", or totally gutless NCO's who should have been summarily busted.

Commanders are responsible for everything -including mission accomplishement and discipline. The senior NCO's are ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to maintaining discipline - and for ensuring that troops down to the snuffy level are trained.

I am continually flabbergasted that the low end - up to maybe Staff Sergeant - and the high end -all the way up to General Officers and the Secretary of Defense - are being hounded ruthlessly, and NO ONE is mentioning the responsibilities that were digracefully abrogated by the 1SG and CSM in this scenario.

Posted by Lone Ranger 2004-05-22 7:49:17 AM|| 2004-05-22 7:49:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#4
This article is stupid from these sentences forward:

We know conclusively that the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal is as phony as a Bill Clinton sex denial because there are no calls for the resignation of the one individual most responsible for the abuses. That would be the officer in charge of Abu Ghraib and all U.S. military prisons in Iraq, the commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade, Army Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-05-22 8:18:12 AM|| 2004-05-22 8:18:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Lone Ranger, let me give you an Amen! And from there to the company commanders, and on up--from all reports the entire BN was hosed up. Karpinski was incompetent on an entirely different level, probably had clue until the CID showed up at her door, and that is unforgiveable in a facility commander.

Posted by longtime lurker 2004-05-22 8:21:58 AM|| 2004-05-22 8:21:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I guess I must differ in opinion on what to do with Karpinski.

Karpinski's crime was one of incompetence. She allowed a military unit to get out of control. That is a bad deal in a war zone regardless of whether you are commanding a combat unit or not. Allegations of abuse notwithstanding, losing control of your unit is the most serious element of this entire story.

Karpinski's commanders removed her from her command, as they should have, and unless it can be shown she knew about the abuses and did nothing, that should be the end of the matter for her and for the USA.

The prisoners? It sucks to be them.

Posted by badanov 2004-05-22 8:30:38 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2004-05-22 8:30:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 She was removed from her post, wasn't she? Hard for her to resign from a position she doesn't hold.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-05-22 8:57:03 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-05-22 8:57:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 The greater offense, as had been noted, is that her unit was "out of control." Her subordinate officers were disobeying her commands--it MUST be determined whether in acts of 'commission', 'omission', or both--and were doing so with the excuse that she was a woman.
She should be relieved for not cutting their heads off at the first inkling of this, and they should be relieved for what amounts to "mutiny" at worst, or "dereliction" at best.

In other words, she suffered from the same problem as Captain Bligh.

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-05-22 9:29:54 AM|| 2004-05-22 9:29:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Reading this and the comments, I have become more and more convinced that we had a rogue situation encouraged by peer pressure and the idiot Graner trying to impress the G2's and their ilk. I can see that sadistic little butthole now - all of you guys can. We have all had a nutcase like him in our units and we would just roll eyes or have him wedged up in the latrine. This is a phony two-bit episode being milked to death (probably our country's) by the spongemouth press. God help us all from the Graner's of the world -FUBAR!

Posted by Jack is Back! 2004-05-22 10:27:21 AM|| 2004-05-22 10:27:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 LR, I did hear that the SNCOs and Officers got LORs and Article 15s. Not jail time but definitely career ending for most. I think this included Karpinski and you know that she is out for sure. I don't think that anything would have been served by dragging their names out and vilifying them.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2004-05-22 10:40:29 AM|| 2004-05-22 10:40:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 CS: Career ending in the RA is not the same thing as career ending in the reserves or National Guard. The officers might get passed over for promotion (unless they can get some GO to pull their letters of reprimand from their fiche), but my guess is that the NCOs could transfer to other units and get their 20.

I would like to see Karpinski in front of a court martial. Without proving general or specific intent, she won't end up there. My question about her would be "is she still drilling?" She needs to be off the govt. payroll. She's a disgrace to the officer corps, active and reserve.

Posted by 11A5S 2004-05-22 2:04:16 PM|| 2004-05-22 2:04:16 PM|| Front Page Top

17:50 docob
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