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2004-05-13 Iraq-Jordan
Spain’s Army Rejected US Call Over Iraq Uprising
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Posted by TS(vice girl) 2004-05-13 11:07:29 AM|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 
without "us agreeing or understanding (the reason for the action),"
That pretty much sums up the Spanish.

Had the "uprising" overrun the Spanish garrison and killed all the troops, they still wouldn't have understood or agreed there was a reason to take action.

Oh, yeah - and it would have been the Americans' fault.

You've made your choice, Spain. Say goodbye to bathing suits, wine, and women working. Say hello to the Middle Ages. Again.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut  2004-05-13 11:21:10 AM||   2004-05-13 11:21:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Ah, the old "no habla" excuse.
Posted by tu3031 2004-05-13 11:32:22 AM||   2004-05-13 11:32:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Que cobardes son estos Espanoles! There was a reason a never quite liked my grandfather.
Posted by Anonymous4617 2004-05-13 11:37:39 AM||   2004-05-13 11:37:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 What's worse is the line: Spanish troops weren’t equipped to launch an offensive ... Spain’s was a peace-keeping force. In other words, Ayala didn't see his people as soldiers. What bullshit. Must be one of the many UN diseases - "peacekeeperitis" (there's one for you Dr. Steve). Hey don't we look cool in these blue helmets (please don't shoot)?
Posted by Spot  2004-05-13 11:53:48 AM||   2004-05-13 11:53:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Yesterday Liberalhawk asked my how I could know that the French wouldn't defend their homeland against an uprising of muslim immigrants. I can never know for sure, but data points like this, the behavior of the Dutch at Srbrenica and the recent German debacle in Kosovo speak strongly to me. Predicting moral as opposed to material outcomes is always difficult. Certainly defending one's homeland is different than defending someone else's.

In my gut, this all reminds my of that night in Panama when the Cruzada Civica (CC) was manning the barricades. Power was out and the city was quiet of anticipation of battle. Then the CC leadership put out the word. Go home. Surrender. Our freedom isn't worth a drop of our blood. It was a year and a half later when we Americans gave them back their freedom. We sacrificed a few dozen of our best for it.
Posted by 11A5S 2004-05-13 12:03:21 PM||   2004-05-13 12:03:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 El muchachos de turbanos donde mucho bombas e multito bullettos e pistoles in la biblioteca e mosquedero de las huevos esta la toro, muy bien?
Posted by Lucky 2004-05-13 12:05:36 PM||   2004-05-13 12:05:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Contrast this to the El Salvadorean soldier who, after running out of ammunition, pulled a knife and attacked the jihadis. The Spanish Army deserves Zapatero. What a bunch of useless pussies. We're better off without them.
Posted by RWV 2004-05-13 12:19:42 PM||   2004-05-13 12:19:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Just out of curiosity, what does peacekeeping mean? Does it mean that when the bad guys come in and roust the local authorities, declare themselves to be in charge, and start setting up military positions, it's OK as long as they do it in a peaceful fashion? Were the Spanish going to do crowd control for the Mehdi Army? What a bunch of useless *****s! Spain has the distinction of being one of the few countries that France has been able to defeat in the last 200 years. Now, I know why.
Posted by RWV 2004-05-13 1:04:58 PM||   2004-05-13 1:04:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 11A5s - perhaps even the CC didnt believe that US occupation meant a signficant loss of freedom vs Noriega. 3rd world nationalism/state loyalty is still a different thing than first world, not to mention how the militaries operate.

and yes, being on your own turf is a big difference. Look at Russia, which left Afghanistan, but has stayed in Chechnya - difference, they see Chechnya as part of Russia.

Vichy France also did not represent a collapse of society, but a shift of power within it. It represented the rise to power of the French right (and some odd parts of the French left) with the cooperation of a foreign power. But the Germans were careful to treat Vichy as a self-governing, even theoretically sovereign power (which the US continued to recognize till 1942, BTW)

Look at how France is responding now, with a Hijab law, and with exiling Imams. If France is nuked, their instinct WONT be to surrender, it will be to go anti-muslim Fascist. Blood in the banlieus. It will be very ugly. AQ will like that, since it will gain them support in muslim countries, and theyll be happy to sacrifice French muslims for that. I much prefer our approach of fighting AQ in the middle east.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-05-13 1:08:15 PM||   2004-05-13 1:08:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Well, the last time France beat Spain, France was at the top of its military abilities - 1808-1812.
In the same years France beat almost everybody else.
Posted by buwaya  2004-05-13 1:16:15 PM||   2004-05-13 1:16:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 RVW, I wouldn't indict the whole Spanish Army because of the weakness of its commanders. From everything I have read, the Spanish soldiers are well regarded by their US counterparts, and many Spanish soldiers were disappointed by Zappy's order to return home early.
Posted by Tibor 2004-05-13 1:21:51 PM||   2004-05-13 1:21:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 RWV (#8) ... what does peacekeeping mean?

Clearly you're not a European. Peacekeeping means that when a bunch of armed thugs show up, and say "we're here to kill those unarmed people over there", you apologise profusely for keeping them from their important appointment and gracefully step out of the way. It means that you run up large expenses on food or whores while the locals get murdered or starve. It means that if there's any real trouble, you call in the U.S. and either blame them if it doesn't work out, or take all the credit if it does. Silly American.
Posted by A Jackson 2004-05-13 11:44:12 PM||   2004-05-13 11:44:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Seems to me that it took the British and Wellington to kick Napoleon out of Spain in 1811.
Posted by RWV 2004-05-13 11:57:25 PM||   2004-05-13 11:57:25 PM|| Front Page Top

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