Article

2004-05-09 Iraq-Jordan

First Soldier Faces Court-Martial in Iraq

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Posted by Fred 2004-05-09 4:04:49 PM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 So you don't think these were any sort of regular interrogation procedure either, Fred?

The thing that's bugging me the most is that based on what bits and pieces I'm picking up, the soldiers were completely undisciplined... which helps suggest (among other things) that this wasn't based on any proper procedure, or doctrine, and probably wasn't ordered.

In a strange sort of way, all the excuses I've been reading, from pundits on the right ("it was just some troops blowing off steam!" or "it was an effective interrogation technique, and not that bad!"), the left ("you know these were just the poor grunts who were just following orders"; "what do you expect when you send people off to fight in a fraudulent war" or finally, "it was probably Rumsfeld's mind control powers..."), or the troops in question themselves ("I never heard of... what did you call it? The Geneva Convention?") are all very disturbing.

I keep thinking to myself, just how stupid do these people think we are?

Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-05-09 5:55:14 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2004-05-09 5:55:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Our clearest view of what happened will come through the court martial process. Unfortunately, there is no alternative but to start at the bottom and go up the chain till someone's defence is they didn't know. Convict that one for incompetence, the rest for whatever is proven and be done with it.

Posted by Mr. Davis 2004-05-09 6:12:09 PM|| 2004-05-09 6:12:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 The guy is either sadistic and enjoyed it or a brainless robot and couldn't think better? What will it be?

Let me tell you. You people are so obsessed with your power and your military that you can't see that the world is not yours and think you can do whatever you want with it...

Well, remember that all empires fall... It's all over in history... What makes you different? That you are looking for it...

Posted by Anonymous4776 2004-05-09 6:01:25 PM|| 2004-05-09 6:01:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Anon4776, America doesn't have an empire.
And if you call a handful of lower level soldiers who engage in sexual humiliation and take photos of enemy prisoners an expression of our "obsession with power and military," you're smoking crack.
The United States has yet to open up its full military capability in either Iraq or Afghanistan
In fact, a lot of Americans would have liked to have turned most of the Middle East into a parking lot on 9/11.
But we didn't.
It's called restraint and compassion.
Something very few empirical powers in human history have demonstrated.

Posted by Jen 2004-05-09 6:10:21 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-09 6:10:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Anon4776--The true difference between America and any empire in history is that we punish our soldiers for abusing prisoners instead of promoting them. Do you think Saddam not only expected but demanded such behavior from his own soldiers? Caesar? Hitler? Stalin? Napoleon? Ghenghis Khan? Attila? Hirohito? Alexander?

For someone that accuses us of not remembering history, you sure have a loose grasp of it yourself.

Regardless, it's very true that "empires" don't last forever. America's day in the sun may someday come to an end, but it won't be before your lifetime, which suits me just fine. You can sulk all you want until then.

In the meantime, do the little dance we taught you or we'll shut off your foreign aid. Oh, and wear the funny little hat, too! That always cracks me up.

Posted by Dar 2004-05-09 6:23:28 PM|| 2004-05-09 6:23:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Dar, perfect comeback! ThanQ! ROFL

Posted by Jen 2004-05-09 6:31:06 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-09 6:31:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Anonymous, you have made at least 3 definite assertions about what we collectively believe.
This is generalization and a presumption of clairvoyant authority.
It seems that you are the one with imperial delusions, the empire of Napoleon to be specific.
Take your meds before you come back or find a different parade ground upon which to address your troops.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-05-09 9:34:44 PM|| 2004-05-09 9:34:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 BTW, Anon, clairvoyant authoritarianism, telling people not only what they should think but what they DO think, is a clinical symptom of chronic alcohol abuse. Look it up.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-05-09 9:40:09 PM|| 2004-05-09 9:40:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I have no problem with this soldier -- and more to come -- being court martialled. The system works, etc. What does bother me is that the procedings are going to be open to the press. That means that the fix is in -- this man has already been found guilty. Sorry, but this man is supposed to have some rights -- even in the military.

Posted by Infidel Bob 2004-05-09 11:40:30 PM|| 2004-05-09 11:40:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 IB,

Give me a break. Do you think he would get a more fair trial behind closed doors? Half the country thinks he is being scapegoated to cover up systemic torture emanating from Rumsfeld's force fields. This will be a fair court martial.

Sentencing if guilty? That's another matter.

Posted by Mr. Davis 2004-05-09 11:48:55 PM|| 2004-05-09 11:48:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I agree with you, #9. The investigation, hearing, and punishment should have remained an internal matter within the military. This public court martial is way over the top,IMO, and smacks of "kangaroo court" justice. It clearly means that DC neocon bureaucrats[read Wolfie] and holier than thou politicians[read McCain and Swimmer] are having too much input on how the military deals with allegations of "conduct unbecoming" within its ranks. Furthermore, this public court martial will undermine the authority of the brave and honorable GI's still at war in Iraq.

Posted by rex 2004-05-09 11:57:07 PM|| 2004-05-09 11:57:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Well, the politicians you deplore wouldn't have had to make the court martial public if the defense attorneys of the soldier(s) involved hadn't decided it was such a wonderful idea to leak details of the case (including the pictures) to the press. See this previous Rantburg article for details.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-05-10 12:26:28 AM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2004-05-10 12:26:28 AM|| Front Page Top