Article

2004-05-08 Home Front: WoT

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by tipper 2004-05-08 7:11:17 AM|| || Front Page|| [11128 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 He's so right. I have noticed however that there is a fracture in the left, v/s a uniting among the right.

The lefty people I sit with in the park can be easily described by this,

"Perhaps it is the comfort of Western liberality, affluence, and leisure that has made them so smug, guilt-ridden and hypercritical, inasmuch as so many are so upscale. Or maybe it is a sincere belief that American society is inherently exploitive and believes only in an equality of opportunity rather than their own far more important equality of results.

But within that description is a fracture that those on the left are being forced to confront.

Those who belong to the church of, "If I constantly point out what is wrong with America, then I am doing something about the homelessness that I see and don't like." These people are followers, they don't want to act, they just want to complain about the fact that those who do act aren't perfect. They feel their complaining absolves them of the need to act.

But the others who wanted "equity of results" are beginning to realize that calling Bush, "Hitler" will not achieve them and are now realizing that all their party seems to offer is blame. These people are beginning to get disgusted with those who defend the Clintons no matter how low they sink and want to offer excuses for genocide. They still want the utopia of socialism, but are alarmed by the hate and blame that their "compatriots" are espousing.

Meanwhile, the right begins to unite under the understanding that our freedom and security is threatened ..and we must preserve it at all cost.

Posted by Anny Emous 2004-05-08 10:15:25 AM|| 2004-05-08 10:15:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 [Troll droppings deleted]

Posted by Man Bites Dog TROLL 2004-05-08 10:58:29 AM|| 2004-05-08 10:58:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Troll Sucks Dog - Beating the DIMmi drum - and his miniscule meat.

Posted by .com 2004-05-08 11:05:40 AM|| 2004-05-08 11:05:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 You got it, Dotcom!
Only a mental midget would have the reckless lunacy to deem VDH a "f*cking idiot."
The WOT="oil-patch idiocy" and yet Genius here recommends "seizing the ME oil fields...!"
Just how would you do that, Einstein?
A full scale invasion that made Gulf War I look like a scouting expedition?

Posted by Jen 2004-05-08 12:14:04 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-08 12:14:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 And via a "hardline" Congress, no less. Wotta 'Tard Troll.

Posted by .com 2004-05-08 12:17:38 PM|| 2004-05-08 12:17:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I'm sure whatever ManSucksDog thinks is a "hardline Congress" is a hoot and a half!

Posted by Jen 2004-05-08 12:42:54 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-08 12:42:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 I think that Man Bites Dog is an unemployed Air America DJ.

Posted by RWV 2004-05-08 12:46:26 PM|| 2004-05-08 12:46:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Shouldnât we at least listen to what bin Laden is saying?

Not allowing the utterances of mass murdering fanatics to distract you from killing them first is merely prudent policy.

Are our air-dropped food packages deliberately made to look like cluster bombsâand laced as well with fatty peanut-butter and jelly?

Eeeew! Fatty snacks, cholesterol bombs! [flutters hands helplessly]

We will kill millions of Iraqis. The oil fields will go up in smoke.

Hasn't happened yet.

Eff all if I have the time or inclination to catagorically go through this wad of drivel.

This fight for the future of Iraq is turning out to be for more than a referendum on democracy in the Middle East, but rather a trial of our own culture here at home.

Yes, our culture is on trial to see if we are determined in assuring proliferation of a morally superior model for government. Permitting Arab ascendancy is just plain suicide and nothing else.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-08 1:36:52 PM|| 2004-05-08 1:36:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 "...our culture is on trial to see if we are determined in assuring proliferation of a morally superior model for government. Permitting Arab ascendancy is just plain suicide and nothing else."
Zipper, you are such a salad for brains cretin.
It was you Liberals' "culture of apology and feeling" that got us 9/11 and this war and that made "Arab ascendancy" (and I'm still not sure what you mean by this and I'll bet you aren't either) even in our own country possible.

Posted by Jen 2004-05-08 1:42:16 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-08 1:42:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 "Eff all if I have the time or inclination to catagorically go through this wad of drivel."

Well, if you'd just taken the time to calmly read that "wad of drivel" through to the end, you'd have figured out that the cluster of statements you took issue with were not VDH speaking for himself: they were him parodying the Leftist voices of what he rightly calls "the hysteria of the last three years"-- and with which he most emphatically disagrees.

VDH's point is that we're not only in a fight to the death against Islamofascism abroad, but in a fight against an ideology of failure and weakness here at home, as well.

Frankly, to me, that's the bigger of the two wars. And it, too, will be a fight to the death-- maybe not in our lifetimes, but sooner or later.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-05-08 2:12:47 PM|| 2004-05-08 2:12:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Dave D., you mistake my intent. I too was questioning the ostensible validity of apologist and appeasment oriented hysteria.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-08 2:47:53 PM|| 2004-05-08 2:47:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Hey Zenster, you seem to know a lot about nihilistic suicide, I'll give you that. So, tell you what, strap on a suicide belt and we'll all chip in on plane fare to Riyadh. What do you say?
On the way you can contemplate the determining of "assuring a morally superior model for government", and tell us if its contained in that belt.

Posted by Comment Top 2004-05-08 2:50:54 PM|| 2004-05-08 2:50:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Harpos on the assault.

Posted by fury two 2004-05-08 3:20:07 PM|| 2004-05-08 3:20:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Zen, I don't understand the personal thang you and Jen have had going, and I sometimes nod in ageement with some of your points, but "a morally superior model for government" is asinine on its face and disgusting in its implications. I'll take Sharia when I'm dead, and there'll be dead "true believers" scattered all around me. I owe my children that much. I think Islam doesn't really want to awaken the dragon that will consume them - armed and willingly suicidal 'Merkins would turn Islam to the "extinct" history pages, and deservedly so.

Posted by Frank G 2004-05-08 3:33:41 PM|| 2004-05-08 3:33:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 #14 Frank G, its very simple, z is a pimple on the backside of humanity; and sometimes you must interrupt the important work we adults are doing, and reach around, and POP IT!.
He's the kind of isolated, suicide-watch, psychotic, loser-teen that Madeleine Albright would like to wrap her arms around, just to restore his self esteem. If she only knew about him! Oh! the humanity.

Posted by Comment Top 2004-05-08 4:30:45 PM|| 2004-05-08 4:30:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Zen, I don't understand the personal thang you and Jen have had going, and I sometimes nod in ageement with some of your points, but "a morally superior model for government" is asinine on its face and disgusting in its implications.

Frank G, an obsessive compulsive personality disorder or miscalculated dosage are the only explanations I can tender for the continuous torrent of lies and filth being spewed by my star detractor. In order to stop consuming precious bandwidth at this site, I have resolved to avoid any further interaction as it only seems to encourage deep sea fishing from beneath a well known bridge. Sadly, free speech appears to be a foreign concept for some types.

As to democracy being a "morally superior model for government," I have begun to believe that democracy (in the form of elected representation) is a fundamental human right. There is a distinct lack of validity to theocracy that essentially mandates free people to eradicate it. Any amalgam of church and state is inherently tainted by preferentiality and intrinsic repression of minority views.

If only by comparison, democracy is certainly morally superior to any existing theocracy. That was the essential gist of my statement. Does this clear things up? If not, please feel free to expand upon your objections.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-08 4:58:36 PM|| 2004-05-08 4:58:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Am I the only one who translated Zenster's comment about a morally superior form of government as a reference to western democracy?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-08 5:00:33 PM|| 2004-05-08 5:00:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 How're those stadiums coming along, Aris?

Posted by Raj 2004-05-08 5:06:23 PM|| [http://angrycyclist.blogspot.com] 2004-05-08 5:06:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 "proliferation of a morally superior model for government"
No, Aris, but using the word "proliferation" to describe the spead of democracy is awkward and odd.
99.99% of English speakers wouldn't do it.
Maybe Zen's foreign!
But he's still focused on nukes if he's using the "p" word.

Posted by Zenster4doo 2004-05-08 5:08:03 PM|| 2004-05-08 5:08:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Can the stalker troll be banned?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-08 5:11:06 PM|| 2004-05-08 5:11:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 4doo> "99.99% of English speakers wouldn't do"

Unless they were intentionally using it as a parallel?

Sorry, but the rabid attack that Zenster has just experienced for something he never said by people that did not even bother to read his words reminds me all too well of the rabid attacks I've often experienced here for things I never said by people who did not even bother to read my words.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-08 5:16:46 PM|| 2004-05-08 5:16:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 re-reading, I stand corrected, apologies Z and AK

Posted by Frank G 2004-05-08 5:24:14 PM|| 2004-05-08 5:24:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Aris Katsaris, thank you very much for carefully reading my words. I'm one of those dangerous individuals who uses polysyllables with incautious abandon, so I'm sort of used to being misinterpreted. Still, it's nice to know someone is paying (positive) attention. I've already witnessed similar attacks upon yourself here and will do my best to protest them when they come to my notice. (I shall think of you whilst spooning homemade tzatziki sauce over my gyros this evening.)

Frank G., your gracious apology is cheerfully accepted. I was admittedly rather mystified by your objections. I will trust that we now agree on this matter.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-08 5:38:23 PM|| 2004-05-08 5:38:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Pardon me but we're not here to have a idiotarian lovefest.
Don't you know there's a war on?
Thank God VDH doesn't forget it.
I guess that's why he consults with the President.

Posted by Idiotarian Police 2004-05-08 5:47:58 PM|| 2004-05-08 5:47:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 proÂ·lifÂ·erÂ·ate

v. proÂ·lifÂ·erÂ·atÂ·ed, proÂ·lifÂ·erÂ·atÂ·ing, proÂ·lifÂ·erÂ·ates

v. intr.: To grow or multiply by rapidly producing new tissue, parts, cells, or offspring.

To increase or spread at a rapid rate: fears that nuclear weapons might proliferate.

v. tr.: To cause to grow or increase rapidly.

---------------------

Any negative connotations borne by the word "proliferation" arise from its colloquial usage and not from some inherent secondary meaning. I rather enjoy thinking that proliferation of democracy is one of the finest ways to prevent further illicit spread of nuclear technology.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-08 5:49:17 PM|| 2004-05-08 5:49:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Ip: the quote I misunderstood was: "Yes, our culture is on trial to see if we are determined in assuring proliferation of a morally superior model for government"

He meant democracy as a morally superior model - I was 180Â° off on my initial take. You don't see that on rereading? Idiotarian lovefest? Kiss my ass...

Posted by Frank G 2004-05-08 5:57:40 PM|| 2004-05-08 5:57:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Kiss your ass? No, thank you.
If Zenster wants to chat with his like-minded pals, let him do it somewhere else or he should pay Fred a nice contribution for taking up his bandwidth with his inanity.
This thread should be about Victor Davis Hanson's very insightful views on the war we're currently fighting.

Posted by Idiotarian Police 2004-05-08 6:02:28 PM|| 2004-05-08 6:02:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Idiotarian - nobody here disagrees with Hanson.

Posted by Frank G 2004-05-08 6:07:18 PM|| 2004-05-08 6:07:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 by the way - I Paypalled Fred (who was incapacitated) $50 for rantwidth...how much did you pay, loinjemmings@freelivrs.net?

Posted by Frank G 2004-05-08 6:32:13 PM|| 2004-05-08 6:32:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Zenster> Mmmm, tzatziki... :-)

Frank G> No harm done -- you've always been one of the most reasonable posters of this forum, and everyone can slip occasionally. As for idiotarian, I guess it's more that he doesn't *care* about what was said, when he gets the opportunity to insult instead.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-08 6:32:46 PM|| 2004-05-08 6:32:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 I wonder?

http://www.uoif-online.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=3770

Posted by Man Bites Dog 2004-05-08 7:08:54 PM|| 2004-05-08 7:08:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 gotta have better bait when trolling, asshat, MSD

Posted by Frank G 2004-05-08 7:19:07 PM|| 2004-05-08 7:19:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Jen, seizing the Gulf oil fields would be straight forward. They are not that big a geographic area.

BTW Zenster started out a troll but seems to be getting converted. He's also a pompous ass! But he does seem to have taken my advice and bought a dictionary. Now all he has to do is understand that when you put words together they have to mean something as a whole.

Posted by Phil B 2004-05-08 8:27:36 PM|| 2004-05-08 8:27:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 You would only want to take the SA oil fields if you really wanted to bring things to a head. It's just not our national psyche to do it. A blockade though...?

Would the world boycot US oil production from these fields (China, France, Russia?) Those guys would sell their mothers for a profit!

Would just stopping production from SA fields be a positive in the WoT. Was ExPres. Jimmy Carter correct that perhaps we should put on another sweater?

I still think that a major defunding of Arab jihadies has to happen and that will need an answer to the petrol $.

Posted by Lucky 2004-05-08 9:47:50 PM|| 2004-05-08 9:47:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Gentile 2004-05-08 10:24:31 AM|| 2004-05-08 10:24:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#36 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Gentile 2004-05-08 10:24:31 AM|| 2004-05-08 10:24:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#37 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Man Bites Dog TROLL 2004-05-08 10:58:29 AM|| 2004-05-08 10:58:29 AM|| Front Page Top

10:58 Man Bites Dog TROLL
10:52 Man Bites Dog TROLL
22:45 Mike Sylwester
22:40 Mike Sylwester
17:48 Man Bites Dog TROLL
10:24 Gentile
10:24 Gentile
01:52 Old Guy
01:36 Man Bites Dog TROLL
01:36 Man Bites Dog TROLL
01:14 Barbara Skolaut
23:57 Mr. Davis
23:54 11A5S
23:53 Verlaine
23:48 badanov
23:47 Verlaine
23:44 Phil Fraering
23:36 Robert Crawford
23:29 Anny Emous
23:29 Frank G
23:28 Jen
23:24 badanov
23:03 badanov
22:53 Zenster