Article

2004-05-07 Europe

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Dragon Fly 2004-05-07 10:41:33 AM|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I think the olympics will be a fiasco.

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-05-07 10:43:16 AM|| 2004-05-07 10:43:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 * - Greece a former great power, the center of civilization 2500 years ago. Overrun by the Romans then the Ottoman Turks. Regained some of the former glory by hosting the 2004 Olympic games, then insulted a participating country by not knowing where its capital was.

Posted by BigEd 2004-05-07 11:02:59 AM|| 2004-05-07 11:02:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Don't forget they were taken over by the Macadonians (barbains to the ancient helos) long before the Romans. The only linkage the Greece of today has with the former great power Greece (not even sure if we could call it Greece then) is that they live on the same terroritory...

this olympics will be one of the worst...

probably setting myself up for some BS from aris but ohwell..

Posted by Dan 2004-05-07 11:38:58 AM|| 2004-05-07 11:38:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 The only linkage the Greece of today has with the former great power Greece,

Actually there was no single "former great power" Greece -- it was just a collection of states for most of the time, and only became a single power under Alexander's empire.

is that they live on the same terroritory

And the language ofcourse, which some still consider the primary characteristic of "national identity". Modern Greek's not the same from Ancient Greek ofcourse but it bears more resemblance to it (and its lines of descent are more clear) than any of the Latin-descended languages bear to Latin.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-07 11:58:37 AM|| 2004-05-07 11:58:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 "same as"

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-07 12:00:53 PM|| 2004-05-07 12:00:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Instead of Jerusalem

Er... the capital of Israel is Tel Aviv ;)

Posted by goldsoundz 2004-05-07 12:06:20 PM|| 2004-05-07 12:06:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 well hello aris - thanks for adding the piece on language - i wasn't aware modern Greek language was that close.

Posted by Dan 2004-05-07 12:07:18 PM|| 2004-05-07 12:07:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 the capital of Israel is Tel Aviv

Not according to the Israelis. Their country, their capital.

Posted by ed 2004-05-07 12:15:20 PM|| 2004-05-07 12:15:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Dan> The language of the Gospels is still quite readable by your average Greek; we are likely to hit only a couple words per page that we couldn't understand, even though the grammar tenses of the verbs are a bit trickier, to me atleast -- Homeric Greek however is further removed, and practically everyone would have difficulty figuring it out in its original, unless they'd studied the language in length. Herodotus, if I remember correctly from highschool, lies somewhere inbetween, which ofcourse makes sense timewise.

*g* So it also depends on the timeframe in question.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-07 12:23:47 PM|| 2004-05-07 12:23:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 that's precisely why the Olympics website didn't mention the capital of Israel. what would be the best solution? mention only Jerusalem, only Tel Aviv, both cities? at least certainly put a link to an Israeli website.

Israel participates in many competitions as a European country, eg. soccer (member of the UEFA)

Posted by goldsoundz 2004-05-07 12:44:35 PM|| 2004-05-07 12:44:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 "Their country, their capital."

What do you do if Cuba suddenly decides that its capital is Miami?

Posted by Mitch H. 2004-05-07 1:10:34 PM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2004-05-07 1:10:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 im thinking los angeles capitol of mexico.

Posted by muck4doo 2004-05-07 1:23:59 PM|| [http://petaenespanol.com/cinco/] 2004-05-07 1:23:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Well, I read Homeric Greek, the classical dialects and Koine (New Testament) ... the latter is of course much simplified from the earlier forms of only a few centuries prior.

But when I come to modern Greek I see a lot of influence of Turkish on the language, primarily in vocabulary but also in some grammar and concepts.

In many ways modern Greece is a long way culturally from the city-states, and for that matter from Byzantium, and resembles Turkey and other mediteranean cultures to some degree.

And yes, Aris, the differences between Greece and Turkey are real and they matter ... but so does the similarity, which is striking to someone who meets the ancients first and then spends time in the modern state.

Posted by Classically educated 2004-05-07 1:26:07 PM|| 2004-05-07 1:26:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 No Israeli capital, no completed stadiums.

That sound about right, Aris?

Posted by Raj 2004-05-07 1:47:00 PM|| [http://angrycyclist.blogspot.com] 2004-05-07 1:47:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Mitch, you declare some exile honcho the President of Cuba, and dare the "rebels" in Havana to do something about it.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-05-07 2:17:29 PM|| 2004-05-07 2:17:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Hey, at least it's an improvement over that German car company's map that didn't even include Israel on it. Not much of an improvement, but.....

Posted by Desert Blondie 2004-05-07 2:21:56 PM|| 2004-05-07 2:21:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 What do you do if Cuba suddenly decides that its capital is Miami?

You mean to imply it isn't? Miami is already the capital of all Latin America. And oh yeah, possession is 10/10ths of the law.

Posted by ed 2004-05-07 2:24:57 PM|| 2004-05-07 2:24:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Seems some people have forgotten the definition of capital: the town where the government is installed. Israel's government is now in Jerusalem I believe.

Now I would welcome for Castro declaring Miami is Cuba's capital and moving there with all his ministers. Of course just a few hours alter Cuba would have still another capital: this time it would be Leavenworth

Posted by JFM 2004-05-07 4:21:20 PM|| 2004-05-07 4:21:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 President Bush made a strategic change in US policy when he, as President, officially recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Check it out if you don't believe me.

Posted by Jen 2004-05-07 4:24:37 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-07 4:24:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Classically educated> There's indeed influence of Turkish in much of the vocabulary (wouldn't know about the grammar), especially the words concerning foodstuff, but what I told you nonetheless remains true: The Greek of the Gospels is still easily readable by your average Greek person, something which AFAIK isn't the case about Italian (or Spanish or French) and Latin.

As for how much similarity exists between Greece and other meditaranean states -- I never tried to argue that *culture* was one of the common points between modern and ancient Greece, did I? But that, I think, applies to pretty much every country. How much in common do the Britons of Boudicca have with modern-day Brits, or the ancient Germanic tribes with modern day Germany?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-07 8:09:29 PM|| 2004-05-07 8:09:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel. It looks like some people what Yasser and Hamas setting up a terrorist headquarters in the Jewish capitol.

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-05-07 8:36:26 PM|| 2004-05-07 8:36:26 PM|| Front Page Top

05:25 Super Hose
02:53 Anonymous4617
02:49 Anonymous4617
01:52 BigEd
00:58 Zenster
00:14 Robert Crawford
00:12 Jack Deth
23:53 Aris Katsaris
23:53 Barbara Skolaut
23:46 Ol_Dirty_American
23:41 Douglas De Bono
23:40 Jen
23:37 CrazyFool
23:35 Aris Katsaris
23:26 Jen
23:24 Jarhead
23:23 GK
23:22 Jarhead
23:21 .com
23:16 Jen
23:11 .com
23:11 Jen
23:07 Barbara Skolaut
23:06 Anonymoose