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2004-05-03 Europe
Berlin wants to halt security for US bases
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Posted by Steve 2004-05-03 10:28:15 AM|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Wow. Fucking wow. *count to 10* Wow.
Posted by .com 2004-05-03 10:41:19 AM||   2004-05-03 10:41:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Offer the job to the Poles then.
Posted by Bulldog  2004-05-03 10:44:46 AM||   2004-05-03 10:44:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Dotcom, it is shocking.
Call me crazy, but haven't our bases been giving security to Germany for 55 years, rather than the other way 'round?
Posted by Jen  2004-05-03 10:45:54 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-05-03 10:45:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 It's time to redeploy east into Poland, and point the tank barrels west.
Posted by Laurence of the Rats  2004-05-03 10:48:37 AM||   2004-05-03 10:48:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Jen - Amazing, no? And all they're doing is some gate security and drive-arounds? We sure wouldn't want to put them. out, eh? And this is the real deal - comes from the DefMin.

Let Struck strike out when the various communities that host our bases lose the biz and employment. He & Shroeder can go down in flames together - and we will not look back.

Wow. So be it.
Posted by .com 2004-05-03 10:50:28 AM||   2004-05-03 10:50:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 NATO is OVER. Poland it is, then
Posted by Frank G  2004-05-03 10:54:34 AM||   2004-05-03 10:54:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Maybe the base commanders should order all the soldiers to stay on base at all times. For safety.

Of course, they won't be able to spend any money in the towns, either...
Posted by Laurence of the Rats  2004-05-03 11:21:18 AM||   2004-05-03 11:21:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 It's far past time to redeploy those troops somewhere else. Let's see how the German economy handles that loss.
Posted by AllahHateMe 2004-05-03 11:32:05 AM||   2004-05-03 11:32:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Dotcom, unbelievable!
I want our people gone like yesterday!
And does Schroeder have to come to D-Day and why?
To remind us why we had to send 500, 000 men over there in one go?
Posted by Jen  2004-05-03 11:35:37 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-05-03 11:35:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Aside from having a Airhead in Europe and the Hospital at Ramstein, there aint much reason to be based in Germany. Moved the forces to Italy or Poland and bit Germany Goodbye! Bulldog, I like the idea of Polish troops guarding a U.S. base inside Germany!
Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)  2004-05-03 11:50:11 AM||   2004-05-03 11:50:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Time to perform a Clark/Subic Bay and get our forces and equipment OUT of there in a hurry. No apologies, no explanations.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-05-03 11:52:31 AM||   2004-05-03 11:52:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Lock, stock and barrel? Hole the runways and crack the slabs? Lol! This is going to get funny, methinks!
Posted by .com 2004-05-03 11:56:25 AM||   2004-05-03 11:56:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 What I'm wondering is how many more times we're going to let these crapweasels yank us around before we enforce some consequences. Seems to me that June 6, 2004 would be a good, symbolic date to announce the US is pulling its troops out of Germany and withdrawing from NATO as well.
Posted by Dave D.  2004-05-03 12:12:41 PM||   2004-05-03 12:12:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Takin' a page out of the Puerto Rican playbook, huh?
Posted by mojo  2004-05-03 12:24:57 PM||   2004-05-03 12:24:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 All we need to do is adjust our attitude to the reality that has always been true, even when denied. Our forces in Europe are an Army of Occupation to keep the Germans down and the Russians out. It is only a decade since the end of the last, prolonged cold war in Europe ended. While the Russians appear down, that is temporary. Likewise, the German state of mind reminds me of nothing so much as the Weimar Republic. It is going to be a lot cheaper in blood and money to keep the bases than to reoccupy them after the Europeans go in to their next breakdown. Distasteful as it may be, we should keep the troops there and recognize the true reason for their presence.
Posted by Mr. Davis 2004-05-03 12:29:13 PM||   2004-05-03 12:29:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Great point, Mr. Davis.
However, if we put the troops in Poland, that's even more strategically located--plus they'll be a lot more grateful.
For Russia to get to Germany (or vice versa), they always have to go through Poland.
Hitler knew.
Posted by Jen  2004-05-03 12:31:17 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-05-03 12:31:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Jen,

It seems to me we're in a better position to take care of the Germans and French from Germany than Poland. The Poles and SAC can handle the Russians if need be.

Gratitude is good for a generation only. I favor encouraging sentiments such as fear and respect instead. That's what's missing in Germany and France.
Posted by Mr. Davis 2004-05-03 12:42:02 PM||   2004-05-03 12:42:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Big time, Mr. D.
But what I think the Germans are telling us here is that our presence is no longer "wanted."
I think we should "follow orders," don't you?
Posted by Jen  2004-05-03 12:47:43 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-05-03 12:47:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 It is going to be a lot cheaper in blood and money to keep the bases than to reoccupy them after the Europeans go in to their next breakdown.

Sorry, but twice is more than enough.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-05-03 1:03:25 PM||   2004-05-03 1:03:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Political Science
Posted by .com 2004-05-03 1:08:12 PM||   2004-05-03 1:08:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 As a Brit commented very early on, the good thing about having bases in contintental Europe is that "it saves all that tedious channel crossing."

TGA -- you out there? What's all this, then?
Posted by Matt 2004-05-03 1:11:13 PM||   2004-05-03 1:11:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Mine Deutschland has become a pacifistic land of pussies. I'm happy my Waffen SS Gramps isn't here to see it.
Posted by Anonymous4719 2004-05-03 1:28:13 PM||   2004-05-03 1:28:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Thanks for the Randy Newman link .com
Posted by docob 2004-05-03 1:32:18 PM||   2004-05-03 1:32:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Question, does the US own the land the bases are built upon? If so I'd like to see the Puerto Rico option put into affect.
Posted by ruprecht 2004-05-03 1:54:43 PM||   2004-05-03 1:54:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Looks like another occupying force is in a quagmire.
Posted by Rawsnacks 2004-05-03 2:25:24 PM||   2004-05-03 2:25:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Ruprecht, I'm pretty sure we lease them only. Sovereign state and all that ....
Posted by rkb 2004-05-03 2:35:52 PM||   2004-05-03 2:35:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Sovereign state and all that ....

I thought Germany was in the EU.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-05-03 2:50:34 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-05-03 2:50:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 TGA, isn't true that the next German leader will be a conservative? So this Minister could be out of power before the end of the year!
Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)  2004-05-03 3:21:43 PM||   2004-05-03 3:21:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Ruprecht, technically yes an no. As a leased property a US base acts essentially like sovereign US territory and airspace. However since it a leasing it all comes down to what the contract/agreements say we can have or do (hence if the contracts are cancelled the land goes back to the country, in this case germany), and that contract will also determine the disposition of buildings and some equipment.
Posted by Valentine 2004-05-03 3:32:59 PM||   2004-05-03 3:32:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Offer the job to the Poles then.
It's time to redeploy east into Poland
Poland it is, then

Um, Poland is probably more anti-American than Germany. The Polish government up to now has sided with the US, but since their entry into the EU on May 1st (and deducing from their speeches on that historic day) Poland may start cozying up to France, Germany et al. How else can you interpret "we must now work for the betterment of European interests"? (a paraphrase). Additionally, if current indications are correct, there's a chance that an anti-American government could be elected next year, or sooner. (Though oddly enough that's not to say that Polish troops will be pulled from Iraq).

A recent (unscientific) poll in the weekly Polityka indicated 50% respondents want Polish troops out of Iraq, with 2% being undecided.
Posted by Rafael 2004-05-03 4:03:02 PM||   2004-05-03 4:03:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#31  There are many aspects to this announcement.1)Reminder to US and administration that Germany is helping in other ways-her guards mean US doesn't have to find MP's to guard bases.2)Budgetary problems-when your economy is p-poor,any savings are welcome.3)Domestic politics-Washington can't jerk us around w/out consequences.4)Spite-hey,you said you were leaving,we don't want to get in your way.5)Hard bargaining time-you might want to rethink pulling all those troops and dependants out of Germany.BTW,did we mention enviro clean-up costs,new noise-abatement policies around Ramstein,fears low flying a/c are disrupting our native wildlife?
Posted by Stephen 2004-05-03 4:30:08 PM||   2004-05-03 4:30:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Having the US in Germany is a constant reminder to the Germans that the Bundeswehr is fit only for guard duty. Germany's biggest problems are domestic rather than international. The Amis aren't going to help them with their gastarbeiter/terrorist problem or bail out their sputtering economy, so what good are we to them. As part of Secretary Rumsfeld's restructuring of the forces, most of those bases will go away with the FY05 BRAC, a true win-win-win scenario.
Posted by Random thoughts 2004-05-03 4:57:24 PM||   2004-05-03 4:57:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 I'm still saying we need new Warsaw Pact.
Posted by Shipman 2004-05-03 5:55:08 PM||   2004-05-03 5:55:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 In this case I think that Shroeder does not necessarily speak for all Germans, but he certainly has provided us with political coverage for our pullout. He has done us a favor.
Posted by Super Hose  2004-05-03 6:38:10 PM||   2004-05-03 6:38:10 PM|| Front Page Top

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