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2004-04-22 Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Nuclear-Armed Iran Would Be 'Intolerable' -Bush
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Posted by Steve White 2004-04-22 12:35:27 AM|| || Front Page|| [11136 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 North Korea: Hey! No fair!!! I called nexties!!! I'm more eviler than they are!!! Pick me!! Pick me!! You ALWAYS pay more attention to him!!!
Posted by snellenr  2004-04-22 12:48:26 AM||   2004-04-22 12:48:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 The American President is very tolerant. Some things are intolerable. AQ don't mean much vs an Iran that is going so far out on a limb.
Posted by Lucky 2004-04-22 1:08:20 AM||   2004-04-22 1:08:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 The advent of affordable technology that easily manufactures nuclear weapons has forever changed the world's ability to tolerate such violent stone-age cultures as those in the Middle East. Without having had to experience either the education or internal upheavals that industrialization so often requires of its host societies, Iran is nonetheless attempting to acquire armaments useful in military domination. That their armed forces display not even the least sense of stewardship required for the prudent administration of these puissant weapons bodes well for no one save Iran itself.

We no longer have the luxury of dabbling in old school moral relativism that gave these virulent barbarians any reprieve from forcible compliance with world standards of human rights and amenable international conduct. Iran and other theocratically inclined Islamists seek nothing less than global domination with their Neanderthal sensibilities intact. Iran remains one of those few countries still openly dedicated to the destruction of Israel. This sort of flagrant aggression cannot be permitted, even at the cost of obliterating those belligerents who refuse to lay down arms.

Free society and its proper progress must not be imperiled by any reticence towards annihilating moral cancers like Iran before they metastasize into a cataclysm of vicious theocratic domination with unimaginable loss of life.
Posted by Zenster 2004-04-22 1:46:14 AM||   2004-04-22 1:46:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Bush hasn't rattled the saber against either NK or Syria. All we had before was Rummy and Colin using the term, "unhelpful."

I honestly think he will give them a two hour warning before the Stealth planes are over thier targets. Whether they evacuate is up to them.
Posted by Super Hose  2004-04-22 2:14:02 AM||   2004-04-22 2:14:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 And so it begins...
Posted by someone 2004-04-22 2:26:22 AM||   2004-04-22 2:26:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 If not us....who?
If not now...when?
Posted by Halfass Pete 2004-04-22 3:45:53 AM||   2004-04-22 3:45:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Right on, someone. Bush checked the box.

So, Zenster, when will you be able to bring yourself to even write "President Bush did the right thing. Kudos!" Still got that "shrub" and "stolen election" shit buzzing around your skull? One result is your "circle it 40 times before you touch it" style - so common among those simply incapable of giving credit where due. Therapy. It could work.
Posted by .com 2004-04-22 6:27:22 AM||   2004-04-22 6:27:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 heh be nice, don't rub it in :-p
Posted by dcreeper 2004-04-22 9:05:14 AM||   2004-04-22 9:05:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 PD is back!
Posted by Shipman 2004-04-22 10:48:01 AM||   2004-04-22 10:48:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 .com, any moron with half a brain (I know, this leaves out a lot of politicians), is able to figure out that Iran has, is and will continue to be a threat until it undergoes regime change.
Posted by Zenster 2004-04-22 2:29:00 PM||   2004-04-22 2:29:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 "Iran has, is and will continue to be a threat until it undergoes regime change."

Granted - without hesitation. But how many of them (politicians) actually have the will to DO anything about Iran?

Certainly not anyone on the scene with any chance of becoming the President of the United States of America -- except President Bush, whether you agree or not consciously, you know it's true in your gut. Your glaring inability to credit him speaks ill of you - and calls into question your honesty - and this little inconvenience is apparent to everyone here. Believe it.

Credit Where Due. I am, simply put, amazed how often you applaud US efforts, which come at George W Bush's direction, to face the evils which you voluminously decry, yet can't take this tiny step. Sigh. It's quite sad, actually.

Good luck with your internal struggles. I "converted" myself, just after 9/11, so I recognize it's not simple. Obviously, I didn't have quite so far to go. Dennis Miller opined once regards child abusers, "Well you're just gonna have to lean into the strike zone - and take one for the home team." Perhaps you should consider this option.
Posted by .com 2004-04-22 3:14:38 PM||   2004-04-22 3:14:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 .com, I appreciate your efforts to make more appropriate commentary upon my contributions.

Discriminatory horsesh!t like the DOMA reflect an intolerance exceeded only by the Islamists. Trying to graft religious commandment onto the constitution of our secular nation is tantamount to treason in my book.

I have been able to get a lot of information out of this site which has helped illuminate much that goes unreported by the major media carriers. This is something I enjoy and appreciate immensely.

Fighting ignorance is one of our greatest moral obligations in life. I don't see that as being the oval office's top priority and that shapes my opinions.

I "converted" myself, just after 9/11, so I recognize it's not simple.

This sort of honesty upon your part goes a lot farther than deprecatory insults. Do not think for one minute that I am free of any turmoil in this situation either.
Posted by Zenster 2004-04-22 3:49:43 PM||   2004-04-22 3:49:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Zenster - well said. This is, indeed, more constructive. But it cuts both ways - recall it began with your shrubbery comment. So now we've both poked a nasty bear in the eye! Honestly, I had to eat an entire flock of crows regards Bush. I "outted" myself on RB about a year ago regards this little epiphany. He certainly failed to impress me prior to 9/11... but IMHO he put on the big shoes - and grew into them amazingly quickly. I was floored as I'd thought him a privileged cream-puff before then. I kept asking myself if I would've adapted to the new reality that fast - and been willing to eat all of my prior remarks against nation-building, etc. He did it, to my amazement. Same with his views and treatment of the UN. Truly ballsy to turn himself 90 deg and take the full wrath of the entire establishment press. Even more impressive is that he did it just because it was the right thing to do - politically it was almost suicide, and may yet turn out to be so. I have business experience with a certain kind of leader - and Bush is of this type. They suck at the details, but excel at the vision thing - and have some indefinable ability to bring others along with them and imbue them with the vision. Charm, charisma, I don't quite think either is accurate, but there's something. Yeah, I know that's vague, but I've seen it up close and it's remarkable. The killer punchline is that, notwithstanding the fact that they can't match me technically - and that leaves a sense of uneasiness in a purely left-brained jerk like me, they turn out to be right - the vision is accurate and effective. Boggles. Okay, sorry. Nuff said - I hope you are converted before November! This world demands so much of us - the US - and I don't see anyone else willing to step up besides the US, nor anyone else delivering on our behalf besides Bush. :-)
Posted by .com 2004-04-22 4:33:53 PM||   2004-04-22 4:33:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Okay, sorry.

Nothing to apologize for, .com. I'm glad we're able to engage more constructively now. Again, I appreciate you giving me an insight into your own position on this. The free exchange of ideas is what goes farthest towards disspelling ignorance.

There is little way for me to effectively communicate my displeasure regarding those who have not taken the time to educate themselves about the terrorism. This is one of the few sites I've found where this dire threat is taken seriously.

The revelations I have found here about the Food-for-Oil scandal are completely reshaping my ideas about why there was so much international opposition to ousting Saddam. None of my conclusions about this are very complimentry.

I have yet to see America's republican party get back to embracing properly conservative ideals such as less government interference with individual rights. Most revolting of all is their unholy alliance with the religious right. The infusion of religious fundamentalism that has occured of late is one of the most disturbing chain of events in recent memory. America's continuing greatness hinges upon its secular foundations.

I am astonished at how few people comprehend that routinely evoking God and painting the United States as a Christian nation merely paints crosshairs on every American back. This nation requires no such swaddling of our cause in clerical garb. Leave that to the Islamists.

When all of that changes, my opinion may as well but not until then.

Again, thank you, .com, for taking the time to look past our differences. Thank goodness we live in a country where we can agree to disagree. Rest assured that I would defend to the death your right to disagree with me.
Posted by Zenster 2004-04-22 5:40:04 PM||   2004-04-22 5:40:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Zenster/.com: Why can't we all just get along?
Posted by Tibor 2004-04-22 6:34:10 PM||   2004-04-22 6:34:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Why can't we all just get along?

Because morons like Osama bin Laden and Rodney King keep getting born.
Posted by Zenster 2004-04-22 7:17:05 PM||   2004-04-22 7:17:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Zenster - I'm an atheist. A real one, heh. I had to swallow a lot of my own bile - not pleasant at all. But I did it because when I scanned the list, only one concern, one issue, was for all the marbles. Boiled down, most of the rest were about what color the recently-invented wheel should be, to paraphrase Douglas Adams. Or, in the same vein, the approved options made no sense, such as burning down the forest to make a "monetary" supply of leaves more valuable. They were trivial and transient. So I don't care about "under God" or "In God We Trust" - sure, if it floats their boat.

I came to this as a "ruleset" for others:
"If it helps you sleep at night, doesn't hurt anyone else, and you don't play missionary, I do not care what you believe. Knock yourself out."

The ruleset I apply to myself is a tad tougher:
Never buy your own bullshit.
Keep your word or keep you mouth shut.
Be an asset or be gone.
etc.

The experiences I had in the ME and Asia made trivial issues simply fall away - leaving only the WoT as worthy. In Saudi, I was literally converted from a wide-eyed romantic seeking an Arabian adventure to the hardcore hardass anti-Izzoid I am today - and believe me, I edit my posts very heavily so I don't alienate too many. I used to be excoriated regularly here in RB for advocating, um, "harsh" actions. Yeah, harsh.

Now I think you and I should jump this Tibor guy and whomp 'im. Group hug, huh? Hug this you touchy-feely do-gooder! ;->
Posted by .com 2004-04-22 7:46:34 PM||   2004-04-22 7:46:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 The ruleset I apply to myself is a tad tougher:
Never buy your own bullshit.
Keep your word or keep you mouth shut.
Be an asset or be gone.

There's another one that's been a big help to me ever since 9/11: never confuse what you know, with what you can only suspect.

Part of the difficulty in staying on an even keel these days is that much of this war we've been fighting is being fought in shadows; and much of the dearth of good, hard information is due to our leadership having to play its cards close to the vest to keep the enemy guessing--the problem being, it keeps us guessing, too, and that's a bitch (at least for me).

I find it helps to draw a sharp distinction between those things I know, and those things I only hope/fear/suspect are[n't] true--and of the latter, to let go of that urgent need to believe I actually know what's going on, and accept the fact that I probably won't know for a long time.
Posted by Dave D.  2004-04-22 8:05:44 PM||   2004-04-22 8:05:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 #4 - SuperHose - unhelpful

He he he - Them's code words.

Better get under the desk Mr Mullah.

Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-22 8:28:11 PM||   2004-04-22 8:28:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Dave - I have a card in my wallet my daughter gave to me. It says, "If you think you know what's going on, you're probably full of shit." Mea culpa, heh.

I have a variation of your saying that goes, "Know the difference between what you know and what you believe; between what you need and what you want. And keep it straight, dumbass!" The first half isn't too far off of yours.

And you're dead right: even after an event occurs, we'll never fully know or understand all that went into it nor the full ramifications of the outcome. And it is, indeed, damned hard to accept how helpless we often are. I consider this dilemma to be both the greatest strength and greatest weakness of the American mindset. We believe, often rightly so, that we can change things - and there is a confidence that comes from somewhere that encourages us to take on the challenge - even if we're alone against the world. But being helpless is something for which we are poorly equipped... and in the end methinks that's actually a damned good trade-off!
Posted by .com 2004-04-22 8:42:22 PM||   2004-04-22 8:42:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 But I did it because when I scanned the list, only one concern, one issue, was for all the marbles.

You can bet that this one is keeping me awake nights too. Not since communism or the Nazis has this world face such a dire and perfectly polarized threat. Those who pretend there is any middle ground on this are among some of the (second) most dangerous people alive.

To give the bear one last poke, I hope you have had time to reconsider any accusations of trollery or plagiarism. Our goals have a lot more in common than you might suspect.
Posted by Zenster 2004-04-22 10:05:02 PM||   2004-04-22 10:05:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 "I hope you have had time to reconsider any accusations of trollery or plagiarism. Our goals have a lot more in common than you might suspect."
Only if you're willing to admit you were wrong when you disrespectfully called our President "Shrub."
Make no mistake, all of the "get tough" policies WRT Islamist terrorism that you keep yelling about here on RB will involve having President "Shrub" at the helm.
Posted by Jen  2004-04-22 10:11:19 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-04-22 10:11:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Zenster - I agree with your threat assessment.

Regards my accusations - it was the illogically incongruous differences between posts and stated beliefs that left me no rational alternative to troll. You came into RB full of bile and bullshit - whether you acknowledge it or not is irrelevant. If you recall, I initially reacted with a calm request for clarification... a challenge, certainly, but without invective. I didn't jump on you - you were doing the jumping. And no one here had a clue who or what the fuck you were about. IMO, you should pocket your pride and accept your own role in how this transpired. The posts are back there that bear me out.

I didn't accuse you of plagiarism - at least I don't think so. Anyway, I'll happily withdraw any and all epithets and apologize for them in exchange for your simply acknowledging that President Bush deserves credit for what he has done. It's obvious fact, so I'm not asking much. And he's done it in the face of the most vile and extreme opposition. I don't love him, but I sure as hell respect him.
Posted by .com 2004-04-22 10:44:56 PM||   2004-04-22 10:44:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Dotcom, I hope it hasn't escaped your keen notice that the prolifically posting Zipster--uh--didn't exactly do his bit to make nice by posting his deferent reply to either of us.
So I guess he still denigrates and disrespects President Bush and his Administration...
which makes everything he says null and void in my book.
Posted by Jen  2004-04-23 3:36:38 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-04-23 3:36:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 Anyway, I'll happily withdraw any and all epithets and apologize for them in exchange for your simply acknowledging that President Bush deserves credit for what he has done.

.com, your points are extremely well made. Right now, I can only give credit to the White House's senior staff, they alone seem to exude any vision. I do not perceive sufficient competence in the oval office to persuade me of any extreme gratitude or respect.

Permit me to share a joke that might not be so well received here abouts.

Back when the Taleban were getting their collective @sses properly kicked, I was obliged to joke about how glad I was for just this once that there was a "gun toting yahoo" in the White House.

Because of discriminatory, religious bias that I perceive as unforgivable for any American commander in chief, I am unable to withdraw that joke's label even today.

Please know that my punchline was always followed with a just-as-quick crack concerning the glacial response time Gore would have shown. This is not apologist twaddle, it is fact.

Again, I fully understand that this one is for all the marbles. It is a principal reason that I am here at this site gathering information. I cannot believe the dismissive attitude so many people have about the crisis of global terrorism. It is a threat that transcends all partisan and religious lines.

However, I cannot permit this war on terror to transgress certain limits within my own beloved nation. Ensconcing discrimination and blurring any separation of church and state are among them. You cannot possibly imagine the turmoil that arises in my core as I try to reconcile these factors. This moral conflict is, in a word, unimaginable.

.com, if I have falsely accused you of anything, I withdraw it as well. You have taken the time to establish some sort of rapport with someone who is renowned for being abrasively outspoken. For that, I thank you.
Posted by Zenster 2004-04-23 3:55:31 AM||   2004-04-23 3:55:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#26  "Right now, I can only give credit to the White House's senior staff, they alone seem to exude any vision. I do not perceive sufficient competence in the oval office to persuade me of any extreme gratitude or respect."
Dotcom, there you have it.
And he put this up after I wrote my reply to you, hours and hours later and after he'd made tons of his inane posts on other threads.
Looks like he wants your esteem bad.
But won't President Bush be crushed that the remarkable Zipster doesn't admire and respect him, even though the President is doing everything Zippy professes to want from the WOT and then some.
Posted by Jen  2004-04-23 4:08:09 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-04-23 4:08:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 Zenster - That's easily the longest "no can do" I've ever seen. How sad. There's something truly bizarre at work when you can't acknowledge reality. I think they call it fantasy.

Jen - we're talking to a wall here, methinks. Hey I didn't ask much. I guess we're gonna just have to cancel out his vote and put one in the jug for the Prez!
Posted by .com 2004-04-23 4:10:41 AM||   2004-04-23 4:10:41 AM|| Front Page Top

08:24 Jen
08:16 raptor
04:45 Zenster
04:16 Zenster
04:10 .com
04:08 Jen
03:55 Zenster
03:36 Jen
01:25 Super Hose
01:18 Super Hose
01:05 Super Hose
00:53 Frank Martin
00:15 RWV
00:06 RWV
23:59 Pappy
23:53 ruprecht
23:47 Bomb-a-rama
23:45 Pappy
23:43 Bomb-a-rama
23:39 Robert Crawford
23:39 Bomb-a-rama
23:36 Robert Crawford
23:34 CrazyFool
23:30 Halfass Pete









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