Article

2004-04-19 Europe

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Posted by Angie Schultz 2004-04-19 12:42:26 PM|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Sounds about right. Remember the plot to attack a WWII cemetery in Italy?

Damn Islamoids are too cowardly to go after living people without a woman or a kid held in front of them.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-04-19 1:00:21 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-04-19 1:00:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Sorry to burst your bubble Robert, but Muslims wouldn't do this.
Because their religion forbids mutilating bodies, or harming them in any way.
Don't "Damn" people you don't know, maybe if you met a real Muslim you'd curse your politicians to hell for all the lies they've spread about them.

Posted by Gentle 2004-04-19 1:24:53 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:24:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Muslims wouldn't do this? Right, and they wouldn't mutilate bodies, drag them through the streets, and hang them from a bridge, either.

Or was that a "lie" too?

Posted by RMcLeod 2004-04-19 1:33:23 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:33:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Yeah, must've been the Mossad pulling that shit in Fallujah right?

Posted by tu3031 2004-04-19 1:37:15 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:37:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 NO, they wouldn't do it.
Perhaps it was a case of
"Cause & affect"?
Look for the cause, why don't you?

Posted by Gentle 2004-04-19 1:39:06 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:39:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 "but Muslims wouldn't do this. Because their religion forbids mutilating bodies, or harming them in any way."

Are you saying, Gentle, that Muslims never violate the tenets of their religion?

Posted by Matt 2004-04-19 1:40:37 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:40:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Gentle - you don't get out much, do you? Watch anything besides Al-Jiz?

Posted by Frank G 2004-04-19 1:42:16 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:42:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Gentle Being. Now that is a hoot. Politicians, is there nothing they wont lie about.

Posted by Lucky 2004-04-19 1:43:49 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:43:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Actually, there is an existing fatwa that tells Moslems they can mutilate bodies, etc. if it is required to protect the Umma. The fatwa was specifically issued for the Fallujah atrocity but might cover the Spain situation since Andalucia was once part of the Caliphate.

Posted by mhw 2004-04-19 1:44:46 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:44:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Perhaps it was a case of
"Cause & affect"?

Always comes back to those eeeeeeevil zionists, right?

I guess us infidel bodies can be desecrasted in Fallujah because somebody like Sadr considers us not to be full humans, because of friendship with Israel?

Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-19 1:46:44 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:46:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I can't figure out what the cause would be to pull the mans body out of a tomb, drag it away and burn it. Sounds like a real nut case to me. A completely screwed up thing to do. Anybody have a clue as to why somebody would do this?

Posted by Lucky 2004-04-19 1:49:15 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:49:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Anybody have a clue as to why somebody would do this?

They got a fatwa saying they could?

They envied the press coverage of the mujis in Fallujah?

And whoever created the "Gentle" sockpuppet -- please, drop it. Mucky was bad enough, but the new one's just plain stupid.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-04-19 1:56:26 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-04-19 1:56:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Look for the cause, why don't you?

Islam?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-04-19 1:57:39 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-04-19 1:57:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#14
O.K.
Matt: NO, I'm not saying that Muslims never violate the rules of their religion.
They are people, and human nature is always the same. We have the good and the bad.

Frank: Yes, I do get out.
I watch Al-Jazeera, Al-Arabia, BBC, and CNN.
Does that answer your question?
Lucky: No, they especially love lying about Islam.
mhw: Wrong, there is no such "fatwa".
Anonymous4052: you're not an infidel, you believe in God, don't you?
Lucky: I agree with you. It is a sick thing to do.

Posted by Gentle 2004-04-19 2:00:32 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:00:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I watch Al-Jazeera, Al-Arabia, BBC, and CNN.
Does that answer your question?

Yep.

Posted by tu3031 2004-04-19 2:07:11 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:07:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I'm constantly amazed how many "lies" about Islam are directly supported by the Koran, the hadiths, the judgements of imams and the acts of Muslims.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-04-19 2:14:33 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-04-19 2:14:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Oh Gentle one pray tell me, as I'm easily led, and often very wordy, the lie?

Yo Bob. If this was done as a result of a fatwa by a cleric of the religion of fake. Then this is without a doubt a war by islam. I think even a peaceful, loving, Gentle would agree. Should we target islam?

Posted by Lucky 2004-04-19 2:18:23 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:18:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Do you guys know how to have a civilized conversation? You're using slang words that are lost on me.
Like I said:
we, Muslims, value manners, not violence.

Posted by Gentle 2004-04-19 2:18:30 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:18:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Gentle is either a very poor liar or a fake troll.

Posted by Unmutual 2004-04-19 2:19:31 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:19:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 The facts point out that he is at least a liar...whether he is a troll or not is not important right now....in this case, Actions speak louder than words....compare his words with the Islam actions....hmmmmm

Posted by Live to Ride 2004-04-19 2:24:35 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:24:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Yep Gentle, I've seen the big toothy smiles and batted eyelashes of fake. Pure fake. There is only one god and mohamed profaned him and made up a fake religion that will kill you if you wake up and say so. So what is the lie?

Sure reads like Antiwar.

Posted by Lucky 2004-04-19 2:26:43 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:26:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 we, Muslims, value manners, not violence.

Somewhere, somehow, the message was lost on 98% of Muslims.

Perhaps it was a case of "Cause & affect"?

So you found an excuse for it. Is it that hard to just say they were wrong, without adding any qualifiers or disclaimers?

maybe if you met a real Muslim you'd curse your politicians to hell

I work with several Muslims. I'm not cursing any politicians yet (not for the reason you mention, anyway). Amazingly, they all share your disbelief that OBL was responsible for 9-11. What gives?

Posted by Rafael 2004-04-19 2:32:42 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:32:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Gentle...ah yes, the poor muslims are always the victim. All those horrible lies. I suppose you would include 9/11? Islam's inability to view itself in a critical manner prevents it from entering the modern era, and unless things change will result in it either being crushed, or left to rot in a pit of its own filth.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-04-19 2:33:25 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:33:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 O.K.
Thanks for proving my point!
I tell you Islam is a religion of peace, of prosperity and toleration- you disbelieve and mock me.
I tell you that I am a girl- you do the same.

Both facts are true, yet you refuse to believe.
Its your choice, but it won't change the truth.

Posted by Gentle 2004-04-19 2:36:01 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:36:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 im wonder if gentle have all her body part or if someone remove somthing.

Posted by muck4doo 2004-04-19 2:40:23 PM|| [http://www.lettuceladies.com/meet.html] 2004-04-19 2:40:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 I tell you Islam is a religion of peace, of prosperity and toleration

That's 3 strikes, you're out! LOL!! Ok, now I know this is BS. .com is that you???

Posted by Rafael 2004-04-19 2:46:22 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:46:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Both facts are true, yet you refuse to believe.
Gentle, it may surprise you to learn that your word does not carry the weight of authority for us. That is demonstrably true, from our demonstrated preference for factual evidence over authoritarian pronouncements, and thus it is quite unlike your absurd denials of Islamic barbarism.

Terror apologists, like conspiracy theorists, rely heavily on their own presumed authority to define what is or is not true. This is why the tin-foilers like Alex Jones and Carol Valentine find a natural audience in the Ummah, and a monumentally flattering mob of imitators in the Arab media.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-04-19 2:49:40 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:49:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Like, pray tell me Gentle one, where islam (fake) is at peace. Seems like that wherever there is the religion of peace (fake) there is turmoil, death, piles of rocks.

The lie Gentle one? I need to know, I'm easil;y led. Take me!

If it is PD, It's been great fun trashing the religion of race (fake).

Posted by Lucky 2004-04-19 2:55:35 PM|| 2004-04-19 2:55:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 I tell you Islam is a religion of peace, of prosperity and toleration

Rafael: Actually, that's four strikes unless you believe that this twisted death cult is actually a religion.

Posted by Cthulhu Akbar 2004-04-19 3:18:35 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:18:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 The fatwa permitting mutilation is at a mainstream Islamic site (I see they have issued over 100,000 fatwas so far):

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwaapplication/english/display.asp?hFatwaID=112837

Posted by mhw 2004-04-19 3:18:57 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:18:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 It would be nice if Gentle could back up his/her/its statements with a bit of evidence. As Lucky pointed out, every nation where Islam is prime is a shithole of poverty, injustice and backwardness. Need a list, oh Gentle one? Should we start in the Middle East, Asia or Africa? Plenty of muslim run shitholes in each. Islam is not a religion of peace. It is a religion of intolerance and hate. All you have to do is read the Koran, the hadiths or any number of fatwas. And yes, the Bible has many passages that can be interpreted as violent or intolerant. Ya know the difference? In most forms of Christian people are encouraged to read the bible, not to memorize, but to understand and interpret (that's why we have so many denominations). To do so in the religion of bloody pieces is to blaspheme. Critical thought is not encouraged, it is crushed. The angel that spoke to mohommed the pedophile (may bees pee upon him) was none other than the angel Lucifer. Bring some facts to the table Gentle or go the hell away.

Posted by AllahHateMe 2004-04-19 3:23:33 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:23:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 NO, they wouldn't do it.
Perhaps it was a case of
"Cause & affect"?
Look for the cause, why don't you?

Gentle, I'm curious as to what sort of "cause" could have such an "effect" on adherents that its fanatics would slam airliners full of people into occupied skyscrapers.

-------------- ARTICLE --------------

Moreover, Dr. Ahmad Abu-Al-Wafa, Professor of International Law, Faculty of Law at Cairo University, adds:

âMutilating the corpses of the dead is prohibited in man-made international law. It considers it a war crime for which severe penalty is due."

As far as Islamic Shari`ah is concerned, two main points should be stressed:

1. Mutilating corpses is prohibited in the same way torturing the living is forbidden.

2. It is better not to reply to the evil acts of the enemy in the same manner, except if responding in the same way will deter the enemy from exceeding their limits by mutilating corpses. Almighty Allah says: "If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient" (An-Nahl: 126) and âThe guerdon of an ill-deed is an ill the like thereof. But whosoever pardoneth and amendeth, his wage is the affair of Allah. Lo! He loveth not wrong-doers" (Ash-Shura: 40).

Finally, Sheikh `Ikrimah Sabri, the Mufti of Al-Quds (Jerusalem) and Khateeb of Al-Aqsa Mosque, concludes:

In fact, the principle of reciprocity has well-established rules in Shari`ah, whereby Muslims are warned against embarking on such inhumane attitudes. For instance, if the enemy mutilates the dead bodies of Muslims, the Muslim army is not permitted to act in the same manner.

In all cases, Muslims should not initiate the aggression, for Islam is the religion of mercy. War is not the first option in the life of Muslims; rather, it comes after da`wah (inviting to Islam) and kind advice.â

-------------- END ARTICLE --------------
EMPHASIS ADDED

To quote the famous Cuban human rights specialist, R. Ricardo, "You got some 'splaining to do."

Posted by Zenster 2004-04-19 3:24:15 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:24:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Enough of this bull crap...Gentle list or show me ONE damned nation that has Islam as its majority religion or only recognized state religion that is living peacefully and happily. JUST SHOW ME ONE DAMMIT.

Posted by Valentine 2004-04-19 3:31:50 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:31:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 I am curious, I know over at LGF, Charles logs IP addresses. How about it Fred, do you have the IP of 'Gentle'? Is she really in UAE?

Posted by AllahHateMe 2004-04-19 3:37:14 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:37:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Gentle, or whoever you are:

Islam is nothing more than a violent, misogynous, schizophrenic cult, aimed at the gullible, masquerading as truth. It is a conglomeration of inconsistent, dangerous, enslaving, high-verbage nonsense.

If any good ever comes out of an individual person's response to "Islam," it's because the person self-selected something out of context to follow on their own--something that is just common sense, or common decency, anyway--something which did not originate with Islam. Get it?

Posted by ex-lib 2004-04-19 3:40:26 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:40:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 valentine,

actually, the liberated part of Iraq, which should probably be known as Kurdistan seems to be peaceful and happy (that's due to America)

also much of the OAE seems peaceful and happy (a more or less benevolent and pro American dictator)

Tunesia is close to peaceful and happy (a more or less benevolent and westernized oligarchy)

Posted by mhw 2004-04-19 3:50:25 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:50:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 gentle is full of shit

i do not think the spanish did this - little fucking goat abusing muslims did this... they want spain back and are to coward to fight like a man....

Thanks for proving my point! I tell you Islam is a religion of peace, of prosperity and toleration

hogwash!

they will beat thier wifes, put thier children in harms way,stone woman..ect.. but will not fight like a man. so much for toleration - muslims can barely tolerate themselves let alone infidels!

as for prosperity..now that is funny...only prosperity there is either through american aid or oil..but only for the ruling shieks...

Posted by Dan 2004-04-19 3:54:34 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:54:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Gentle - Yes I do believe in God.

But, although I know several Moslems like you who lead their personal lives within the spirit of peace, they fail to be able to condemn act on a global scale. If these evil-doers have you scared into silence within your community, that is unfortunate. But, this is the reason for much of the anger you see expressed here. Some of which I agree is cruel and over the top.

BUT, the people who butchered 3000+ people on 9/11 weren't a buch of Swedish Lutherans on a pilgramage to Martin Luther's hut in Eastern Germany. They were foaming-at-the-mouth Islamofacist fanatics duped by bin-Laden and his ilk to kill themselves for carnal bliss.
This idea of carnal bliss (teh 72 virgin thing) is revulsive to my Christian upbringing.

The silence of the Moslem community was defening after 9/11 here, and what condemnation there was had the cavaet that it was Israel that made them do it. Israel didn't make them do it.

It was an evil megalomaniac named bin-Laden, from one of the wealthiest families in the world, keeping his dupes in poverty while he and his ilk lived the good life.

Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-19 3:56:04 PM|| 2004-04-19 3:56:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Gentle you are an idiot or don't have read your haddiths. One of them says Muhammad told to not mutilate corpses of ennemies. But like everytime there is another haddith allowing it: Muhammad is supposed to have allowed it after enemies mutilated the corpses of fallen Muslims. In theory it can only be done if ennemy has done the same thing first but read any book about Europeans fighting Muslims and you will find Muslims desecrating corpses of fallen ennemies. Or still better, remember Fallujah.

One of the nice things about Islam is that this kind of contradictory statements (one allowing and one forbidding the mutilation of corpses) allows muslims to play good cop, bad cop. More exactly, an Imam tells (in Arabic) that it is allowed to do every kind of bad things, while another one tells (in the language of Kaffirs) that the authors could not be Muslims since Islam forbids those actions. This prevents Kaffirs from retaliating.

Posted by JFM 2004-04-19 4:59:13 PM|| 2004-04-19 4:59:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Sure reads like Antiwar.

Yeah, it does seem to have that La La La quality, doesn't it? :)

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-04-19 5:13:51 PM|| 2004-04-19 5:13:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 she never anser my question either. im realy wanted know if all her good parts were in working order.

Posted by muck4doo 2004-04-19 5:16:59 PM|| [http://www.lettuceladies.com/meet.html] 2004-04-19 5:16:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Dear Gentle (assuming you are who you say you are)

I too believe in a text based religion (Judaism in my case) and i know that such a religion relies on interpretation, and evolves over time. I also know that those hostile too it can seize on something out of context and use it to slam the religion. So in that sense, you have my sympathy. I am sure you yourself believe in peace, and that you see pursuit of peace as part of Islam - if so, may peace be upon you, and may you prosper.

BUT - I dont see how you can say that because Islam forbids mutilating corpses (I will take your word for it and not attempt to argue Hadiths here - i simply dont know enough to do so) that means muslims couldnt have done it. Both your faith and mine ban eating pork - yet I know Jews who eat Pork, and I presume there are muslims who do as well. Certainly there are muslims who drink alcohol. Humans are weak.

And that has nothing to do with cause and effect - the policeman in this instance was one who was killed fighting terrorists who wanted to commit a terrorist attack against Spain - IE he was fighting folks who VIOLATED the tenets of Islam. Any true Muslim beleiver in peace should have HONORED his grave.

BTW - our politicians in the US have generally defened Islam - George Bush has called Islam a Religion of Peace - our governement has affirmed that Al Qaeeda and other terrorists do not represent Islam, they are trying to HIJACK Islam. So i dont know what you mean by lies from our pols about Islam. I think you will find that the Islam haters here are NOT happy with what our govt has said about Islam.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-19 5:23:00 PM|| 2004-04-19 5:23:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Well said, Liberalhawk!

Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-19 5:27:57 PM|| 2004-04-19 5:27:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Fellow Rantburgers

"gentle" doesnt sound like a troll, but like a truely naive and perhaps misguided person, who genuinely beleives in her faith (which is probably deep in her heart) and who came here to defend it. Why do you think that insulting her personally, and insulting her religion, will win her over???

If she is real you have just confirmed for her that supporters of the Bush admin ARE haters of Islam, and fairly vulgar ones at that. Another recruit for the Clash of Civilizations. OTOH, if she IS a troll, youve just fed the troll magnificently - remember folks, IGNORE trolls and theyll go away.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-19 5:29:17 PM|| 2004-04-19 5:29:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 Liberalhawk - You again made good points, but there are two points that can't get enough emphasis, and perhaps I was a bit ineloquent in what I said in #10.

It seems when she said Perhaps it was a case of "Cause & effect"?

This is code for, "Well, if the US hadn't been so supportive of Israel 9/11 wouldn't have happened."

I don't think there is anything you can really say to a person like that. They repeat the kind of bias they have heard since birth. Look, I am a Protestant married to an Orthodox Christian, so I look at the situation from the side, and see who seems to be the one upholing the values of civilization more.

Bottom line - I don't see any Jewish suicide bombers. I don't see any IDF guys intentionally aiming for little kids. Yeah, tell me about collateral damage, but primary targets are the formentors, not the fomentees. I know that may sound simplistic, but it doesn't take any deep thought, just open eyes to see what goes on. Hamas Sheiks dont get decapitated in a vacuum.

The second point is if she is a trollabout, she's got the gig down awful good, so I at this point assume reality. If we explain our problems with the hyprocreicy of stratements such as Perhaps it was a case of "Cause & effect"?
in a dignified matter we may be able to broader her horizion.

Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-19 5:55:15 PM|| 2004-04-19 5:55:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 If she is real you have just confirmed for her that supporters of the Bush admin ARE haters of Islam, and fairly vulgar ones at that.

May be true, but implicit in this statement is the belief that her people and ours can still somehow work out our differences and live in peace. Don't assume we all share that belief.

I want them all to know what they've started, and I want them all to know how deep the feelings go. They certainly haven't held back with us.

Posted by Cthulhu Akbar 2004-04-19 6:13:16 PM|| 2004-04-19 6:13:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 Surprise, guys: emirates.net.ae. She appears to be genuine. So welcome, Gentle, assuming you haven't been chased away by now.

However, also please read the articles and the commentary. I, personally, don't subscribe to the notion that all Arab countries are hopeless. I think Dubhai, Bahrain, Kuwait, and others are making an effort to enter the modern world as civilized nations, despite the efforts of sizable minorities within them to prevent that from happening.

Nobody here buys the idea of Islam being a religion of peace. We're locked too tightly in war with Islamism -- a distinct strain within Islam, but driven by Islamic tenets -- to look upon it fondly. With the exception of the LRA in Uganda and -- possibly -- the IRA in Ireland, there simply aren't Christian analogs to Islamist terrorism. We would like to see movements within Islam that are similar to the Protestant reformation in Europe 500 years ago. It was good for both Protestantism and for Catholicism, and it laid the foundation for the concept of individual liberty that's the basis of American political life. With individual liberty came widespread prosperity, political freedom, and a host of other things. But you'll never get them without freedom of religion, and no Arab state wants to allow that, not even the most modern Arab states.

But feel free to argue points. We're actually open-minded here, and when we're wrong we admit it. But in the case of clashing civilizations, we're not wrong. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran are all religiously driven states that hate us and want to see individual liberty crushed. Al-Qaeda as a movement claims to speak for all Muslims, even when desecrating Sufi graves or assassinating large numbers of Shia. So if you truly do believe in a peaceful Islam that can live in harmony with the rest of the world, we're on your side.

Posted by Fred 2004-04-19 6:14:10 PM|| 2004-04-19 6:14:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 Gentle says: "maybe if you met a real Muslim you'd curse your politicians to hell for all the lies they've spread about them"

Interesting choice of words, those. Not very "gentle," ya' know?

Liberal~~hawk~~, can't you read between the lines on this? Why do you say "I am sure you yourself believe in peace, and that you see pursuit of peace as part of Islam - if so, may peace be upon you, and may you prosper. " For crying out loud! You don't know anything about this person. How are you so "sure" about all these things?

You are also automatically assuming that such uninformed idiocy is spewing from a "female" poster. Gosh, golly but that's offensive.

Next, true Islamic "believers" the world over desecrate graves. I can hardly believe you're a jew and don't know that.

You said "any true Muslim believer in peace should have honored his grave." Are you without understanding? Where are the "true Muslim believers in peace?" I don't recall that any "true Moslem believers in peace" were out there honoring the grave of that policeman--that fighter against (Islamic--sorry) terrorism. Where were the demonstrations?

Then you say "you will find that the Islam haters here are NOT happy with what our govt has said about Islam." Well, we're sure happy about what they're doing about it. Besides that, we know what the administration is trying to accomplish by labeling Islam the "Religion of Peace"--dividing the moderate Moslems from the radicals, and enlisting the support of Moslems that decide to interpret a violent, misogynous, schizophrenic cult, aimed at the gullible, masquerading as truth--that conglomeration of inconsistent, dangerous, enslaving, high-verbage nonsense known as Islam--in a way that is more condusive to REAL civilization.

Finally, you say "the Islam haters" like it was a bad thing. But seriously--the way you say that tends to lump those of us pulling the mask off a dangerous population in with the KKK or something. THEN YOU SAY everyone's responses have made "another recruit for the Clash of Civilizations." Like Gentle wasn't already there? (read Gentle's posts)

I'm having more than my usual amount of trouble with you today, Liberal~~hawk~~.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-04-19 6:31:27 PM|| 2004-04-19 6:31:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 If she is real you have just confirmed for her that supporters of the Bush admin ARE haters of Islam, and fairly vulgar ones at that.

Not of any consequence, really. What with the daily spew of Islamic clerics all over the Middle East splashed all over papers from Cairo to Tehran, and all-too-visible displays of hatred (U.S. flag and effigy-burnings and the like), what's a little vulgarity originating from a blog's comments? This person's efforts are best expended on those who need changing, and that isn't US.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-04-19 6:49:09 PM|| 2004-04-19 6:49:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 See Freepers? This Gentle walks and talks like the real deal. Different culture. Do you understand me now?
Think about the effect of Darwin on breeders.... I'm gone. I wish you all well.

Posted by AntiGum 2004-04-19 7:07:48 PM|| 2004-04-19 7:07:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 "Do you understand me now?"

Nope.

"I'm gone."

Would that you were.

Posted by docob 2004-04-19 7:28:41 PM|| 2004-04-19 7:28:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 Hmmph. I was wrong about Gentle. No 18-year old is going to last very long on this board anyway. Especially no well-bred Muslim woman with perfect boarding school English.

Posted by 11A5S 2004-04-19 8:07:48 PM|| 2004-04-19 8:07:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 Gentle, I have to wonder just how much you really know about American society and attitudes.
For example, can you provide a concrete example of an American politician lying about Islam?
How is it that you presume to have a better balanced view of these issues than we do?
Are you perhaps under the impression that the press and media in this country are subject to censorship?
I know that this impression is very common in Europe and the Middle East.
Are you not aware that copies of the Quran are sold in virtually every bookstore in the United States?
Are you aware that an actual majority of American college students are required to study the works of Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky? These two, among many others, share the radical Islamic view that the US is the aggressor in the current conflict, that US policies are wholly to blame for causing the violence, that US forces are guilty of heinous war crimes on an unprecented scale, and that Islamic terrorism is an entirely justified response to this aggression.
Did you know that David Duke, who likewise supports the Islamic position and who has been an honored speaker at events in your country, was almost elected Governor of Louisiana a few years ago?

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-04-19 8:58:16 PM|| 2004-04-19 8:58:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 War is not outside the "norms" of civilization; wars for the sake of nationalism/liberty/booty are not outside the "norms" of civilization.

Using women and children as screens in combat (or sending children strapped with bombs to civilian enemy targets) have yet to gain the universal approval of civilization. Desecrating the graves of those whose religions have properly honored and buried them doesn't exactly have a huge following, either.

I guess standing up as a man (or woman) and fighting one's enemy toe-to-toe has its perils; if your cause is just, then that shouldn't matter.

I just know I'd hate to be an Iraqi "insurgent" or Pali "freedom fighter" some 30 years from now, knowing I sent little kids to do the fighting I should have done.

Posted by geezer 2004-04-19 9:05:47 PM|| 2004-04-19 9:05:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 Think about the effect of Darwin on breeders.... I'm gone.

Darwin, indeed. In a struggle for survival, an unwillingness to fight back ensures that you and those like you won't survive. Now whether that is a good or bad thing can certainly be debated....

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-04-19 9:07:48 PM|| 2004-04-19 9:07:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#56 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Antiwar TROLL 2004-04-19 10:17:42 PM|| 2004-04-19 10:17:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#57 "Antiwar" is a Jew-hating, Hamas-loving piece of shit who is still in mourning for Yassin. Perhaps "Gentle" should take her in and show her a wonderful Islamonazi shithole, because "Antiwar" has obviously never been in one--has never been outside her white middle class life. But you can rest assured she'll show up to--at least by implication--defend the desecration of the victims of Islamofascism. Keep whining, little girl. Maybe they'll rape you last.

Posted by BMN 2004-04-19 10:25:53 PM|| 2004-04-19 10:25:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#58 ..Bush loving Sharon supporting Zionazi.

When ya can't support your position, proceed directly to the name-calling.

Heh.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-04-19 10:27:21 PM|| 2004-04-19 10:27:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#59 ex-lib, what a rock'n comment.

Liberalhawk. I just want you and anybody else who hangs out here to know that I have NO RESPECT for islam. Zip, Zero, nothing. I don't care a twit about it. fake fu#king bull. I don't care about golden domes built over holy sites. I don't care about Abu watching Mo slay the dragon. Nope nothing. This is a hot war and the enemy is very clear to me.

So many well educated Germans, good folk, played stupid and went along with hitler. So many good people like Gentle Butterfly play stupid and can't see the toilet there're swimming in. Nope, no more. There was a time when I could wax stupidly about the general merits of east vs west and likewise. Nope, no more. Islam, and I capitalise that only because it's the beginning of a sentence is a load of crap.

Madame Butterfly may have been insulted at my hatred of the fakeness of islam. I didn't try to insult her personally. I actually found her very polite (toothy grin and all) But I did try to get her to confront my point of view.

She refused to comment and just blew smoke.

Posted by Lucky 2004-04-19 11:04:37 PM|| 2004-04-19 11:04:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#60 Well!
Some one is angry.
I was asleep, it was past midnight and I was tired of your language.
Liberalhawk: I agree with most of what you said.
Antiwar: Good luck with this lot, I can see that you'll need it.
everyone else: I HAVE lived in the U.K. & U.S.
surprise, surprise!
But that was as a child.
You will get no where with insults, so don't try to. Or better yet, go on, if it is all you have.

Truth will win in the end.
We may have diffrent ideas about what the "truth" is, but let us stop at that.
In other words:
Let us agree to disagree.

Good Bye everyone.

Posted by Anonymous4351 2004-04-20 3:14:59 AM|| 2004-04-20 3:14:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#61 Well!
Some one is angry.
I was asleep, it was past midnight and I was tired of your language.
Liberalhawk: I agree with most of what you said.
Antiwar: Good luck with this lot, I can see that you'll need it.
everyone else: I HAVE been to the U.K. & U.S.
surprise, surprise!

You will get no where with insults, so don't try to. Or better yet, go on, if it is all you have.

Truth will win in the end.
We may have diffrent ideas about what the "truth" is, but let us stop at that.
In other words:
Let us agree to disagree.

Good Bye everyone.

Posted by Gentle 2004-04-20 3:16:19 AM|| 2004-04-20 3:16:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#62 3 gets ya 9 it's a cross-dresser.

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-20 7:07:46 AM|| 2004-04-20 7:07:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#63 Why do you say "I am sure you yourself believe in peace, and that you see pursuit of peace as part of Islam - if so, may peace be upon you, and may you prosper. " For crying out loud! You don't know anything about this person. How are you so "sure" about all these things?

Weel obviously one cant be "sure" about ANYTHING about someone posting on the net. I was making suppositions based on the posters words and tone. And trying to give her the benefit of any doubt, which is what polite people do. And people who actually care about persuading others, rather than alienating them.

You are also automatically assuming that such uninformed idiocy is spewing from a "female" poster. Gosh, golly but that's offensive.

She said she was female, and i saw no particular reason to doubt that.

Next, true Islamic "believers" the world over desecrate graves. I can hardly believe you're a jew and don't know that.

I also know that "christians" desecrate graves.

You said "any true Muslim believer in peace should have honored his grave." Are you without understanding? Where are the "true Muslim believers in peace?" I don't recall that any "true Moslem believers in peace" were out there honoring the grave of that policeman--that fighter against (Islamic--sorry) terrorism. Where were the demonstrations?

I said they SHOULD be honoring his grave - of course most are not, as it might expose to them danger, and would do them as individuals no material benefit. True Christians and Jews should give 10% of their income to charity, yet most dont - does that invalidate what they SHOULD do?

Then you say "you will find that the Islam haters here are NOT happy with what our govt has said about Islam." Well, we're sure happy about what they're doing about it. Besides that, we know what the administration is trying to accomplish by labeling Islam the "Religion of Peace"--dividing the moderate Moslems from the radicals, and enlisting the support of Moslems that decide to interpret a violent, misogynous, schizophrenic cult, aimed at the gullible, masquerading as truth--that conglomeration of inconsistent, dangerous, enslaving, high-verbage nonsense known as Islam--in a way that is more condusive to REAL civilization.

Violent - indeed Islam has been violent, as Christianity has been, and as pre-exile Israel was.

Misogynistic - Christianity with its Marian cult was tad better than Islam in this regard, but not all that much before the Enlightenment. The question is how to get islam moving toward the enlightenment - on gender issues major progress has happened in Turkey, Indonesia (which was never as bad the mideast, part of the misogyny is regional culture) Algeria, etc.

Schizo - IE divided? I should hope so.

WRT Bush - I see no evidence that their view of Islam is a sham, as you imply. Wolfowitz was US ambassador to Indonesia, and he seems quite sincere in his belief that muslims are capable of democracy, and that the notion that they are not is bigoted.

Finally, you say "the Islam haters" like it was a bad thing. But seriously--the way you say that tends to lump those of us pulling the mask off a dangerous population in with the KKK or something.

Anyone who labels an entire POPULATION dangerous based on race or religion, rather than judging people as INDIVIDUALS, based on their actions, is off in the KKK direction. I wont stand it from lefties attacking Christian fundamentalists, and i wont stand it about muslims either.

THEN YOU SAY everyone's responses have made "another recruit for the Clash of Civilizations." Like Gentle wasn't already there? (read Gentle's posts)

I did. It seemed to me that while she has been exposed to lies about US policy, she is still reachable.

I'm having more than my usual amount of trouble with you today, Liberalhawk.

Thats ok.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-20 10:15:11 AM|| 2004-04-20 10:15:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#64 gentle

If youre still reading this, i suggest you check out a website called Winds of Change. You will find there a spirited defense of the WOT, but the principle blogger there is an admirer of Sufi wisdom.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-20 10:28:02 AM|| 2004-04-20 10:28:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#65 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Gentle 2004-04-19 1:40:19 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:40:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#66 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Gentle 2004-04-19 1:40:19 PM|| 2004-04-19 1:40:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#67 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Antiwar 2004-04-19 10:17:42 PM|| 2004-04-19 10:17:42 PM|| Front Page Top

14:50 Gentle
14:50 Gentle
14:50 Gentle
14:50 Gentle
14:44 Gentle
14:44 Gentle
13:40 Gentle
13:40 Gentle
01:28 Not Mike Moore
22:48 Anonymous
20:18 Zenster
18:51 Aris Katsaris
15:38 B
14:25 Frank G
13:58 Aris Katsaris
11:51 Aris Katsaris
11:22 B
10:28 Liberalhawk
10:26 Aris Katsaris
10:23 Aris Katsaris
10:15 Liberalhawk
07:49 Phil B
07:42 anona
07:35 B