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2004-03-15 Europe

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Posted by tipper 2004-03-15 4:06:07 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Many years ago, 1974 to be exact, I was in college in Texas listening to an LLL prof hold forth on the evils of the Spanish Conquistadores.

He detailed their atrocities, their arrogance, their treachery.
He declared that they were guilty of one of the "worst acts of naked aggression in human history."
(It is just possible that the Aztecs' subject peoples, thousands of whom were skinned alive or had their hearts ripped out every year in the overlords' human sacrifice rituals, would not have agreed, but I digress)

The Spaniard-demonizer then asked if anyone had anything good to say about Cortez, Pizarro and company.

A big character in jeans and a western shirt put his hand up from the back of the room and was duly recognized.
He drawled, "Well, sir, you say 600 of 'em conquered millions o' Aztecs and less than that whupped the Incas?"
"'fewer than that' but yes, that's approximately correct."
"Well then, they was some of the toughest sons-of-bitches that ever lived."

Indeed they were, and their valor, daring and martial skill were the direct legacy of the long, bitter centuries it took to expel the Mohammedans from Spain.
They must be spinning in their graves today.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-3-15 4:43:35 AM|| 2004-3-15 4:43:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 meh as I recall they didn exactly do it solo, correct me if I'm wrong.. buh they took advantage of local politics and religion, they had locals fighting on their side.. funny what people will do if they think yer their white god

Posted by Dcreeper 2004-3-15 5:40:52 AM|| 2004-3-15 5:40:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Indeed, Dc, that's what the reference to the Aztecs' subject peoples was about, they were the ones who joined the Spanish.
The white god scam didn't last long, but the non-Aztecs continued to see the Spanish as heaven-sent deliverers.
You can get people on your side in a hurry if you aren't tearing their hearts out and your enemies are.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-3-15 5:52:56 AM|| 2004-3-15 5:52:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 good point :-p

Posted by Dcreeper 2004-3-15 5:59:04 AM|| 2004-3-15 5:59:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 A few points on the conquest of Mexico.

1) Even at that time it was clear in Spain that forced conversions were invalid and should not be tried. However nobody told conquistadores to tolerate religions who endorsed human sacrifice and canibalism: their natural reaction was to destroy them

2) No matter the firepower you cannot control a territory the size of Mexico with 1 thousand men so Cortez needed local allies but Tlaxcatecls had never been able or even close to conquer the Aztecs. Even if decisevely defeated (a thing who didn't happen) the Aztecs would just withdraw to the lake of Mexico and from there raid the rearguard of a besieging army. In addition the tribes of Mexico didn't knew the wheel or beasts of burden so a besieging army had an enormous logistical inferiority over the Aztecs and their fleet of canoes. It was the Spaniards who broke
the invulnearbility of Tenochtitlan.

3) Even if the Spaniards needed local allies it is evident when considering Otumba and other battles that it was them who provided the main fighting power of the combined army.

4) Cortez had to battle expeditions from Spanish rivals, quell revolts instigated by those rivals alll while battling the Aztecs

5) So great was the hate aginst the Aztecs than Cortez had to disciplinate Tlaxcaltecls who wanted to kill and eat prisoners/non combatants. The fact is that Aztecs were universally hated and the only people who admire them are the a...s of the LLL and the people of "La Raza"

PS: One of the LLL wrote a book "Aztec" where the hero mentions that Aztec priests never washed in their lives, add the stench of old dried blood. However he doesn't mention their odor: he talks of the poor hygiene and the repellent odor of the Spaniards not about the priests.

Posted by JFM 2004-3-15 8:42:54 AM|| 2004-3-15 8:42:54 AM|| Front Page Top

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