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2004-03-10 
Any other ideas?
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Posted by Fred 2004-03-10 4:30:47 PM|| || Front Page|| [11135 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Be vewy, vewy, quiet. I am hunting twolls.
Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh.
Posted by whitecollar redneck 2004-3-10 4:40:41 PM||   2004-3-10 4:40:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 more hot chicks!
Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-3-10 4:49:50 PM||   2004-3-10 4:49:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Leave the latest couple (three ?) comments on the main page with each article. Then you can just scroll down the page and check for new snarky comments without having to check each comment page individually.
Posted by NonnyNonnyNoo 2004-3-10 5:02:56 PM||   2004-3-10 5:02:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Good idea N3. I've also noticed that torque is seriously dropping off after 3800 rpm, you may need to do something about the compression.
Posted by Shipman 2004-3-10 5:20:35 PM||   2004-3-10 5:20:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 I'm not the most active guest poster, but I like having the ability to post text and smartassery commentary--and greatly appreciate the opportunity to do so. I hope you're not planning to limit the guest poster's options.

After I wrote that, I finally realized that OP is proposing a separate "guest poster lite" section, and not a "downsizing" of the current guest function.

As for topicality and such concerns, Fred, if I'm using your bandwidth in ways you don't intend, just let me know and I will modify my behavior appropriately. I believe in being a polite houseguest.
Posted by Mike  2004-3-10 5:32:41 PM||   2004-3-10 5:32:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 How about a Rantburg After Hours page, where we can beat up on the trolls or each other, or post responses to older comments, etc.

I'm also in favour of N3's suggestion.
Posted by Rafael 2004-3-10 5:33:31 PM||   2004-3-10 5:33:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Two words -- tail fins.
Posted by Tibor 2004-3-10 5:53:40 PM||   2004-3-10 5:53:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Fred - In the article list at the top of the page, I suggest reordering the fields - and I THINK (don't know for certain) this should be a semi-trivial edit:

perma-link symbol,comment count, time of last comment, article title

Something like this... using Table elements to handle alignment instead of my leading zeros...

link    042    00:15    Kerry Confesses - On Soros Payroll; Skandal Breaks
link    217    06:20    Ketchup-Girl Recounts Childhood - Never Had A Pony
link    033    14:50    Feds FINALLY Stop Soros Soft Money - MoveOn Moves On
link    974    20:00    Rantburg: #1 Interactive Newspaper
link    288    15:32    Soft Money Confiscated; Awarded to RB for Fisking First
link    734    16:06    Fred Retires to Libyan Beach Resort; Wheelus Rocks

It would be easier to scan for latest comments than the current style of putting the count & time at the end of a ragged-right format.
Tanx for your consideration!!! 8^)
Posted by .com 2004-3-10 5:57:15 PM||   2004-3-10 5:57:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 How about the following changes to the "File Under" dropdown list when adding an article:
Add Russia
Add China
Add Israel/Paleos
Replace Terror Networks with WoT
Replace Europe with and East and West Europe
Cut all the Africas down to just Africa

I've had an idea for a while for different pages with their own catagories - ie pages just for Military, Politics, Weapon Systems, etc. It might cut down the time shifting through all the line items.

Hope some of these are useful.
Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-3-10 5:57:17 PM||   2004-3-10 5:57:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 YS - Don't you mean Old Europe and New Europe? Heh... ;-)
Posted by .com 2004-3-10 6:00:48 PM||   2004-3-10 6:00:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I'm thinking... I have _way_ more capacity at my home 'blog site, including the possibility of multiple 'blogs, than I'll ever really need. I could set up two "sub-blogs," one sort-of a "guest poster lite" type site, and one a "rantburg backup" that would just be a place for Fred to post updates in case the main site gets disabled by rabid tasteless hackers of some sort. Of course, there's the problem that with both sites, the users would be stuck with using typepad. Typepad is nice, but I've come to appreciate Fred's easy-to-use smartass comment hilite macro. (Of course, if I knew more html, I'd probably find replicating it myself easier.) I'll have to experiment with typepad's options, see what I can come up with... and I'm not sure the various functionalities will map one-to-one. If you have any suggestions, I can be reached at pgf (at) cox (dash) internet (dot) com .
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-3-10 6:00:49 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-3-10 6:00:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I've posted my first naked headline. It seemed to work okay. I can see the possibility of getting very lazy in my posting habits. I can also see joint posts, where one person posts the headline and somebody else pulls in the body to fill it out as it got more important...

Hmmm...
Posted by Fred  2004-3-10 6:13:23 PM||   2004-3-10 6:13:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Fred - on the naked headline idea I have 2 comments:

1) IF I'm getting this right - I'm sure gonna miss the in-line commentary, both the poster's and the editor's - I consider these as defining hallmarks of what makes Rantbug special -- and enjoyable.

2) All headline links should open in a new window

I'll shaddaup, now...
Posted by .com 2004-3-10 6:27:39 PM||   2004-3-10 6:27:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 How 'bout "Murats corner", where we could just consign all spittle filled trolling style authors.
Posted by Frank Martin  2004-3-10 6:32:23 PM||   2004-3-10 6:32:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Just checked out the NewsLink feature . . . sweeeeet.
Posted by Mike  2004-3-10 6:42:13 PM||   2004-3-10 6:42:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I'd like "muck4doo" filter where I can screen certain, er, people's comments out to save my time, blood pressure level and troll-response-click-carpal-tunnel-syndrome pain
Posted by Frank G  2004-3-10 6:46:51 PM||   2004-3-10 6:46:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 
#13
Naked headlines are for stuff you want to pull in but might be to long to post, or too far off topic but interesting -- Old Pat used the example of a Walter Williams opinion column. They'll still be open for commentary.

You're right about the new window. Lemme fix...
Posted by Fred  2004-3-10 7:34:26 PM||   2004-3-10 7:34:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Ah, okay - gotcha now. I would've protested till my keybd turned blue if you were gonna stop posting your in-line comments! Thx!

BTW - didya like my articles list in the reformatting suggestion? So, are you gonna run the Wheelus O-Club or the E-Club?
Posted by .com 2004-3-10 7:38:21 PM||   2004-3-10 7:38:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Fred, Rantburg works where many other sites have been overwhelmed by abusive trolls or the agendas of the site owners have driven people away (which they are perfectly entitled to do BTW).

I am concerned that RB will become a victim of its own success and is already close to 'too much to follow' even for me. This is a new medium and no one knows where it is going, so I encourage you to experiment and see what works. I've been in the SW biz a long time and many things I thought were sure fire winners sank without trace while other things I thought were candidates for the world's dumbest ideas went on to be hugely successful. So as my mother used to say 'Suck it and see!'
Posted by Phil B  2004-3-10 7:41:45 PM||   2004-3-10 7:41:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 
#19
Phil, my problem lately has been quantity. With 30 or 40 articles, I can read every one line by line. We've got 65 articles and 365 comments as I write this. If I quit my day job I'll be able to keep up with them all, at least until I starve to death.

The answer's got to be either filtering or cloning -- breaking Rantburg down into Page One and Page Two. I tried only displaying one category at a time and I didn't like it. (I hope everybody else didn't love it, 'cuz I didn't ask before I dumped it...) I tried putting very long articles on a separate blog once, and didn't like that, either. Right now I'm thinking in terms of headlines and WoT on Page One, everything else on Page Two, but I'm not happy with that idea, either.
Posted by Fred  2004-3-10 8:42:26 PM||   2004-3-10 8:42:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 It just occured to me that the sort of software abstraction necessary to produce "Rantburg Page One" and "Rantburg Page Two" might also be helpful for producing enough abstraction to "commercialize" the Rantburg Engine and maybe license it to a hosting company.
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-3-10 9:21:12 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-3-10 9:21:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 New look is great. Only addition I would suggest is adding the name of the poster.
Posted by Mr. Davis  2004-3-10 9:21:43 PM||   2004-3-10 9:21:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 I spoke too soom. Comments and Latest are better on the left, especiall if one has a wide screen
Posted by Mr. Davis  2004-3-10 9:23:16 PM||   2004-3-10 9:23:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 I spoke too soon. Comments and Latest are better on the left, especially if one has a wide screen
Posted by Mr. Davis  2004-3-10 9:23:45 PM||   2004-3-10 9:23:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 I dunno. I had 'em on the left first, but the right looks better to me. You're right that it's easier association - the look makes me want to stripe it, which'll make it too busy. Maybe if I combine the time/comments...?
Posted by Fred  2004-3-10 9:28:54 PM||   2004-3-10 9:28:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Fred, one idea that I like and which is being tried at a technical blog I participate in (www.featuredrivendevelopment.com) is voting/rating on articles. Whilst FDD.com does not do this you could use this to determine what gets on page one and what gets relegated to page two. Of course its up to you who gets to vote.

I personally would prefer a WoT page and the rest page. With non-WoT stuff I generally read just the comments.

regards
Posted by Phil B  2004-3-10 9:33:41 PM||   2004-3-10 9:33:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Gorgeous!

I think the Front Page vs Back Page (which also helps drive home the interactive newspaper paradigm!) could be an option (checkbox) in the article post page... Of course this would require some measure of honesty by the poster - and the ability to easily override when the trolls come calling -- but it makes sense as a means of keeping the article count in a manageable range.

You surprise and surpass me every time you pull out the tools and roll up your sleeves - whatever you prefer will be awesome, I'm sure!

Fred Akbar!!!
Posted by .com 2004-3-10 9:47:23 PM||   2004-3-10 9:47:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 BTW - can we hear from people on dial-up connections (identifying themselves as such) to make sure they are getting reasonable response? Fred correctly wondered / worried about this yesterday - and I haven't heard any feedback from RBers who are connection-challenged.

Speak up!
Posted by .com 2004-3-10 9:50:31 PM||   2004-3-10 9:50:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 I like the new ".com" look! Good idea! Good implementation!
Posted by Mike  2004-3-10 9:51:28 PM||   2004-3-10 9:51:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 
21
Phil, I doubt anybody would buy it. For one thing, I'd be ashamed to sell it. It's chock full of dead code and less than elegant solutions. And a lot of stuff is hard-coded that shouldn't be. I don't know of any other blogs that run on Windows systems. Hey! Maybe Microsoft would like to sponsor us! But they'd probably want me to switch databases to SQL Server...

.com, thanks. I'm blushing. The "back page" idea wouldn't be that hard to implement. I did the Hardcore page mostly over lunch today at work. Once I worked out how to keep track of which page was "main" it came together.

It's occurred to me that we carry more articles on WoT than any newspaper I know of, and more on international affairs than most. We've got the comix, with Day by Day. Now we need a Page 3 girl, an editorial page, and want ads...
Posted by Fred  2004-3-10 10:09:45 PM||   2004-3-10 10:09:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Mike - I'm just twiddling simple shit - Fred wrote an awesome system comprised of thousands of lines of code -- that is the marvel here! RB is unique and Fred is the man!
Posted by .com 2004-3-10 10:10:00 PM||   2004-3-10 10:10:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Oops! Overlapped with you, Fred. So it's ASP? Ooooo! Can I help??!!! I'm free - in both respects!

I reiterate something I said the other day. Slow and easy, a meticulous include-driven rethink. You could EASILY sell this system. Hell, you have RB as the sales pitch ready to prove your point!

Okay, all systems need cleanup after they've matured - just as in battle, no plan survives contact intact! You have something truly sexy and unique. Doing the rewrite (I know - easy for me to say!) would make adding on the awesome ideas you mentioned so much easier, too.

I would LOVE to get a postcard from you, say a year or so from now, as you loll about your beachfront villa, surrounded by the Ex-Playboy MotorChix & GunChix Club (Hey, that's just my dream - insert yours!) - in Bermuda!
Posted by .com 2004-3-10 10:19:39 PM||   2004-3-10 10:19:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Hate to admit it, but I do the dialup thing, .com. I can live with the response.
Posted by tu3031 2004-3-10 10:30:53 PM||   2004-3-10 10:30:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 For one thing, I'd be ashamed to sell it. It's chock full of dead code and less than elegant solutions. And a lot of stuff is hard-coded that shouldn't be.

Believe it or not but its now in fashion to write software this way. Its called being Agile and progressive rewriting is called refactoring. I kid you not.
Posted by Phil B  2004-3-10 10:31:40 PM||   2004-3-10 10:31:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Don't forget your overseas readers. I have broadband, but it still takes several seconds (today perhaps 4) for the main page to load for me.
Posted by Phil B  2004-3-10 10:34:18 PM||   2004-3-10 10:34:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 That's a definite fantasy, alright. Somehow I doubt I'll ever see it. You can have the greatest ideas in the world, and without a salesman you're just a guy on the bus.

Seafarious suggested a "chat room" - suggested name is "Wheelus O-Club". (Rafael suggests Rantburg After Hours above.) Opinions on that? I was thinking that, or a grafitti wall, comments not tied to articles. I'm afraid it might take away from Page 1, though...
Posted by Fred  2004-3-10 10:35:09 PM||   2004-3-10 10:35:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Sometimes I see that images have been added, but I don't know how that's done. Maybe you could provide a simple, clear procedure.
Posted by Mike Sylwester  2004-3-10 10:36:27 PM||   2004-3-10 10:36:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 tu3031 - Great news! On avg - how many seconds?

Phil_B - Broadband is a wide range - more specific?

4 pieces contribute to total refresh time:

1) The server load is where most of the action occurs. In most shared-server hosting environs, RB competes with other hosted sites for CPU & I/O. On main page the app hits the DB from a few times to several hundred or a thousand times -- it certainly does exercise the server near the end of the day...

2) The network path - how many hops (routers) to reach RB from your locale? How congested ARE THEY at any given instant?

3) The speed of the user's connection. Big page with complex formatting takes longer to receive over garden hose connection.

4) The speed of user's PC - how fast & how busy is it - determines display time of formatted page once received. Are you running other stuff at the same time? You may be surprised that your PC is a big part of your response time.

I have a 3MB connection - so in a perfect world I would see click-boom on everything. It takes about 2-4 seconds for avg RB main-page refresh... definitely an acceptable response time.

Truth is, folks, we need to hit the tip jar so Fred can go to a dedicated or co-hosted server if we want to reduce the biggie, server load, and have RB sizzle!!!

Fred - Understand what you said, but the software's advantage is that RB is your salesman - and it rocks. Nothing comes close or even attempts to enter the RB genre, currently, that I know of. I believe you have a winner! Ok, shutting up now!
Posted by .com 2004-3-10 11:00:16 PM||   2004-3-10 11:00:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 .com I have a 1.5MB link in Singapore. Just timed the main page load. It took 6 seconds. I also suspect I am hitting a cached page somewhere. I just have a few IE windows open on this machine and half a gig of ram. So paging should be limited.
Posted by Phil B  2004-3-10 11:11:19 PM||   2004-3-10 11:11:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 .com. On a 50K connection through Earthlink, 31 seconds to load the current page.
Posted by tu3031 2004-3-10 11:21:29 PM||   2004-3-10 11:21:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 That's the main page.
Posted by tu3031 2004-3-10 11:23:36 PM||   2004-3-10 11:23:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 I have a suggestion to clean up the table with dates times and comments...

Since the permalink is a picture use the alt= tag to put the time of the last comment.

So when you hold the mouse over the permalink for just a second a "tool tip" type box will pop up saying "Last comment posted at HH:MM"

Would streamline that right up while still giving easy access to the time of the last comment ;)

If you don't get what I mean. Hold the moust over your rantburg logo for just a second and you'll see the a "tool tip" come up saying "rantburg"

You could also do something similar using javascript and the actual link. Though this would be slightly trickier. I think the alt= tag would be a quite elegant and invisible solution...
Posted by sonic 2004-3-10 11:58:22 PM|| [http://sonicpuke.blogspot.com/]  2004-3-10 11:58:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 PS Just realized. You could both the number of comments AND the last posted into the alt= tag of the permalink and REALLY clean things up while also giving easy access to this information...
Posted by sonic 2004-3-11 12:02:46 AM|| [http://sonicpuke.blogspot.com/]  2004-3-11 12:02:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#44 tu3031 - Wow - that's slow. I used to have Earthlink, too - Dec 31 - Feb 6. Sucked worse than Donks on a screed campaign. I tried copper.net and it was better, but still slow. There's no cure for mucho content - IIRC, I used to see 20 sec+ from LA hotel and then later from Las Vegas hotels.

Phil_B - that's prolly about right - you're going through several more hops - being on the other side of the world. Cached pages - if you believe this is happening and you're not seeing the freshest view of RB, you can do this to force it in IE:
Tools / Internet Options / General tab / center section: Settings / Every Visit to the Page

I have a tool that was written by Lucent - back before they went down the tubes. Runs on all flavors of Windows I've used it on - 98/2K/XP. Verrrrrrry cool connection monitor. It was free and is now unsupported, but it is awesome. It shows how much time is being spent on client, network, and remotes server. Works great - but is actually an unfinished product that they dropped. It's called MyVitalAgent. I can offer it for anyone who wants to try it out. TU3031 - you DEFINITELY want this, if you don't have something better. Even HS-BB connections benefit from it.
I will upload it and you can snarf it up here - use right-click 'Save As' with IE. Offered 'as is'.
Posted by .com 2004-3-11 12:21:48 AM||   2004-3-11 12:21:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#45 Fred, under the new format how about being able to click through to the comments-inclusive article page from the appropriate part of the contents list?
Posted by someone 2004-3-11 2:24:37 AM||   2004-3-11 2:24:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#46 Corrected download link for MyVitalAgent.
Posted by .com 2004-3-11 4:34:42 AM||   2004-3-11 4:34:42 AM|| Front Page Top

23:57 Lucky
23:52 Lucky
23:12 Frank G
22:51 Jarhead
22:43 Frank G
22:39 Jarhead
21:14 cingold
21:05 Frank G
21:04 Alexis Marks
16:34 Sandline
23:12 Aakash
19:19 Aris Katsaris
12:56 11A5S
09:14 Raptor
07:28 Super Hose
05:59 rkb
04:34 .com
02:24 someone
01:31 Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo)
00:37 .com
00:33 .com
00:21 .com
00:17 Mr. Davis
00:16 cingold









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