Article

2003-11-18 Central Asia

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Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-11-18 00:09|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The Amnesty international report does not mention who those people are who were executed. Though agreeing that execution is not very humane it is not essentially much different from the American executions. From Uzbekistan I know that they have a lot of trouble with radical Taliban like extremists from neighbouring Tajikistan, if the executed are terrorists it is not bad at all.

Posted by Murat 2003-11-18 4:46:29 AM|| 2003-11-18 4:46:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 âwhere torture is systematic, corruption is unchecked at every stage ... and where courts apply the death penalty without the guidance of objective and publicly accessible sentencing criteria".

That's the US system all right.
Thanks Murat.

Posted by Shipman 2003-11-18 7:40:49 AM|| 2003-11-18 7:40:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 What court do you have on Guantanomo, do the captives even if they are Taliban have a personal lawyer.

Posted by Murat 2003-11-18 8:06:44 AM|| 2003-11-18 8:06:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Gitmo detainees are not in the criminal system, at least not yet. Nor are they being executed unless by their own hand. [sarcasm] Perfect parallel otherwise, though [/sarcasm]

Posted by VAMark 2003-11-18 8:20:26 AM|| 2003-11-18 8:20:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Re: Gitmo, we should have just followed the Geneva Conventions with respect to illegal combatants. That is we should have executed them on the spot. Oh that's right, lefty's conveniently forget that aspect of the GC. Oh well, and Murat, how many of the Gitmo prisoner's have been executed? Yeah, that's what I thought. So, how about you just keep your stinkhole shut until you have a f&cking clue what you are talking about. Some friends of yours being held in Gitmo?

Posted by Swiggles 2003-11-18 8:39:17 AM|| 2003-11-18 8:39:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 So that's your defence no executions in Gitmo? What's your prove? Besides what gives the US the right to use Gitmo as a place free of law?

Posted by Murat 2003-11-18 9:09:45 AM|| 2003-11-18 9:09:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 to get back on topic, and surprise, to go to the left of Murat (unless he was just setting up his gitmo attack)

from what ive read Karimov has NOT only killed terrorists, but also political opponents. He runs an authoritarian state, at least as much so as Egypt and in some ways as bad as Saudi. While we may need him for now, cause of Afghanistan, if the WOT is truely going to be a war for freedom, as Bush said recently, we need to keep our distance from Karimov, and prepare for the day we break with him.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-11-18 9:10:33 AM|| 2003-11-18 9:10:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 that's fine LH - Murat was only trying to emulate AI - it's all our fault. When AI goes after the honor killings in Muslim society I'll start listening, until then they should STFU

Posted by Frank G 2003-11-18 9:13:38 AM|| 2003-11-18 9:13:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 "agreeing that execution is not very humane it is not essentially much different from the American executions."

-Yeah, right. Except for the fact that our criminals get lawyers, trials that can last for months, and about a dozen appeals (& that's being conservative) of the conviction. You want to see some good death penalty cases - check out China. I believe its the first Tuesday of the next month after your convicted you get shot in the public square & your family is billed the 27 cents it took to make the bullet they used to kill you with. Sounds good to me.

Posted by Jarhead 2003-11-18 9:33:54 AM|| 2003-11-18 9:33:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Murat was only trying to emulate AI

I couldn't tell (until I cut & pasted it) whether the last letter was an "L(ell)" or an "I(eye)". The sentence actually makes more sense if it's the latter...

Posted by snellenr 2003-11-18 10:05:29 AM|| 2003-11-18 10:05:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Though agreeing that execution is not very humane it is not essentially much different from the American executions.

Who says it has to be humane? It is usually the most vilest of criminals that are put to death in the U.S., and as such, they generally deserve it. The only thing inhumane about it is that it tends to take so long to carry out (esp. here in CA).

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2003-11-18 10:39:34 AM|| 2003-11-18 10:39:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 what gives the US the right to use Gitmo as a place free of law?

Because Gitmo is not American soil. It is on lease from Cuba. The Supreme Court is considering the case of the detainees at Gitmo, with a decision expected in July, although interestingly they will not consider the fate or status of the detainees, but rather the status of the base itself. If it rules that Gitmo is indeed American soil, then the courts also have jurisdiction over Gitmo, and you can argue that each detainee is entitled to a lawyer. However don't hold your breath for the Supreme Court to decide whether the detainees are POWs or illegal combatants; that's for the executive branch to decide and they're not going to interfere with the president.
(BTW, does somebody know what the legal status of Gitmo really is?)

Posted by Rafael 2003-11-18 10:46:18 AM|| 2003-11-18 10:46:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 does somebody know what the legal status of Gitmo really is?

Nevermind. It was a 1903 lease agreement, extended in 1934 in perpetuity (for a yearly fee of $2000 worth of gold, lol).

Posted by Rafael 2003-11-18 11:07:56 AM|| 2003-11-18 11:07:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 In February 1903, the United States agreed to lease 45 square miles of land and water at Guantanamo Bay for use as a coaling station. The treaty was finalized and the document was ratified by both governments and signed in Havana in December of that year. A 1934 treaty reaffirming the lease granted Cuba and her trading partners free access through the bay, modified the lease payment from $2,000 in gold coins per year, to the 1934 equivalent value of $4,085 U.S. Treasury Dollars, and added a requirement that termination of the lease requires the consent of both the U.S. and Cuba governments, or the abandonment of the base property by the U.S.

I'm told that the U.S. Treasury mails a check every year to Cuba, which has never cashed them (since Castro took over).

Posted by Seafarious 2003-11-18 11:42:51 AM|| 2003-11-18 11:42:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Two things need clarifying, and I doubt if AI would answer either point truthfully:

1. What is the definition of "Justice"?
2. How is that definition NOT being implemented in Uzbekistan?

It's not up to AI to impose a system of Justice on any nation, nor to demand that any SOVEREIGN STATE obey the laws or accept the definition of justice of other nations. My personal definition of JUSTICE is the evaluation of a clash between two or more free men to determine:
a) if any personal rights were violated;
b) if so, by what degree;
c) by whom;
and d) what should be done to rectify the situation?

Killing someone is the ultimate violation of their personal rights. Executing a killer is not retribution, but an insurance against anyone else losing their life because of this uncontrolled $$#%#@$#@. "Law" is the imposition of punishment based on the violation of the rights of individuals, and is an attempt to impose controls on those who either refuse to or cannot control themselves.

Anything else is tyranny. The gravest tyranny against free men is the tyranny of uncontrolled law.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-11-18 2:23:40 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2003-11-18 2:23:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 MuRat - Do you really think you should comment on this one? Especially with your countries history on capital punishment? If your a Kurd there is no due process.

Posted by Dan 2003-11-18 2:37:00 PM|| 2003-11-18 2:37:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 As I said yesterday, could Murat some slack. Of course as anyone who has had too much leftist indoctrination he couldn't help himself in making a snide anti-US remark but notice that he also told that is was a good thing to execute Taliban.

Posted by JFM 2003-11-18 3:29:17 PM|| 2003-11-18 3:29:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Sorry JFM.

Are we rewarding by approximation?
If so.

Murat yes! Good to execute Taliban after full (Western) review. Sorry to snap at ya!

Posted by Shipman 2003-11-18 5:42:38 PM|| 2003-11-18 5:42:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 yes, Karimov is trying to be independent, like Yugoslav's Tito, of the Khazak/Khyrgyz axis with Russia- but I believe he has also executed some by boiling them alive. That is a bit hard to stomach.
Central Asia is set to become the new Middle East in the 80 year old resource war.
Let Murat speak- or this will become an echo room.
I know what "we" think, I want to know what the other side thinks!

Posted by alzaebo 2003-11-18 11:18:53 PM|| 2003-11-18 11:18:53 PM|| Front Page Top

03:36 jimmytheclaw
02:54 Igs
01:24 Lucky
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00:41 LeftEnd
00:30 ISLAM SUCKS
00:26 alzaebo
00:23 Atomic Conspiracy
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00:13 VAMark
23:50 Anonymous
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23:30 Aris Katsaris
23:18 alzaebo
23:11 PBMcL
23:06 alzaebo
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22:58 Anonymous
22:48 Daniel King
22:16 Mark
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21:40 Steve White