Archived material Access restricted Article
Rantburg

Today's Front Page   View All of Sat 11/08/2003 View Fri 11/07/2003 View Thu 11/06/2003 View Wed 11/05/2003 View Tue 11/04/2003 View Mon 11/03/2003 View Sun 11/02/2003
1
2003-11-08 Middle East
Israel behind Bush's drive
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-11-08 15:52|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Had an XO on my fist ship that had a sign in his stateroom that read," you can lead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink... but you can drown the fucker." Words to live by.
Posted by Super Hose  2003-11-8 4:33:50 PM||   2003-11-8 4:33:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 There's a great quote in Lloyd Biggle's, "The World Menders":
Democracy imposed from without is the sheerest form of tyranny."

I've thought about that a lot, and have to agree. However, I believe most people long to be free, and will embrace democratic government(in one of its myriad forms) if given the chance. That's what scares the bejeebers out of the asshats that rule in most of the countries of the ME.
Posted by Old Patriot  2003-11-8 4:42:05 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]  2003-11-8 4:42:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Can you really blame him for trying, Fred? I know, I've got my doubts too, and they're severe; but the alternative, if Bush's "Middle East Democracy Project" doesn't succeed, is to just push the damn button and incinerate a third of a billion people in a nuclear fireball.

Make no mistake: were it to come to pass that pressing that button is the only alternative to having our children live under sharia, I'd press it in a heartbeat- but I can understand Bush's desire to try something less drastic first.
Posted by Dave D. 2003-11-8 6:42:46 PM||   2003-11-8 6:42:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 I don't blame him for trying. I admire him for it. We're probably lucky if there's a 1:100 chance of success -- but who knows? We might hit the lotto, too.

We're actually already showing success in the Gulf States. They're not American-style democracies, but neither are they autocracies anymore. Kuwait had a lot more citizen involvement before Gulf War I.

Pan-Arabism and its accompanying fascist ideology is dead, except in Syria. Libya is becoming African instead of Arab, Morocco's cleaning house, Mauritania has relations with Israel and at least the pretense of elections, and Tunisia hasn't been nutty since the PLO departed. Jordan was actually on our side, almost openly, during the war.

That leaves Iran, with a tottering theocracy; Soddy Arabia, with its besieged princes and its doddering king; and Pakland with its mad maulvis and its Islamic nukes as the core of Islamic lunacy, plus the satellite states like Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Chechnya and Indonesia. Bush has actually accomplished a lot in the past two years.

I think that Egypt, with its hereditary quasi-democracy and its goofy religious establishment will be one of the last Islamic dominoes to fall. I think it will someday, though probably after I'm dead -- and I'm not that old.

I just sometimes despair over the stupidity and the virulence of the enemy...
Posted by Fred  2003-11-8 7:27:42 PM||   2003-11-8 7:27:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Fred, I think you underestimate the power of "President of the United States" as a speaking platform. It is the only position in the world that can communicate strategy and tactics to the advocates of Democracy all over the world. People are, of course, free to reject what the President suggests. That in no way diminishes the power of the suggestion.
One particular tactical suggestion I noted was "use instant messaging".

I think Mubarak recognizes "the beef" in Bush's speech. I think it scares him. Good.
Posted by Dishman  2003-11-8 8:38:09 PM||   2003-11-8 8:38:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 What I find interesting is how they never take the US at its word. Even when the check clears the bank, there's some moronic conspiracy crap afoot that it is a Jooo plot. They are so accustomed to lying to each other that they are incapable of accepting the truth - even after they've spent the money. Sad / pathetic.

O/T: I worked for a woman at E-Systems many many years ago, a very avant garde woman (and sexy, too) and she had a sign on the office wall directly behind her chair that read:

"Sexual harassment is not only tolerated here, it is encouraged. Grades will be posted in a timely manner."

Does that count?
Posted by .com (RoPMA) 2003-11-8 9:22:05 PM||   2003-11-8 9:22:05 PM|| Front Page Top

02:59 Jen
02:06 Anonymous4781
22:28 Brian
02:37 Ron
00:34 Damn_Proud_American
00:19 Anonymous
23:46 Jarhead
23:41 Jarhead
23:34 Pappy
23:28 Jarhead
23:17 SteveS
23:01 VAMark
22:52 Ed Becerra
22:47 Alaska Paul
22:28 Alaska Paul
22:21 Alaska Paul
22:15 Super Hose
22:13 .com (RoPMA)
22:07 .com (RoPMA)
21:58 Frank G
21:58 .com (RoPMA)
21:57 Super Hose
21:50 .com (RoPMA)
21:46 Shipman









Paypal:
Google
Search WWW Search rantburg.com