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2003-09-24 Home Front

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Posted by Steve 2003-09-24 12:00:17 PM|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Here is something else you wont see on the Evening News.

Posted by CrazyFool 2003-9-24 12:22:09 PM|| 2003-9-24 12:22:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Gen. Clark's core value is basically "Gen. Clark". This is a characteristic of many politicians. It didn't stop Clinton from being President or Alexander from being a Governor to name one member of each party.

Posted by mhw 2003-9-24 12:59:58 PM|| 2003-9-24 12:59:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 I think there's plenty more things to find out about the general. Let's see who finds some of them and if they're ever broadcast or published for the benefit of the great unwashed.

Posted by tu3031 2003-9-24 1:09:37 PM|| 2003-9-24 1:09:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Gen. Shelton's role in running Clark out of the NATO command early is well known. The "integrity and character" piece is new, but I'm sure someone will be sharing soon enough. No need to imagine the coverup yet.

Posted by VAMark 2003-9-24 1:35:37 PM|| 2003-9-24 1:35:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Well, the integrity bit goes a way toward explaining why the Clintons like him so much.

"Hey, Wes, how do you feel about telling the truth?"

"The what?"

Posted by Matt 2003-9-24 2:27:45 PM|| 2003-9-24 2:27:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Favorite excerpt:
Three days after Shelton took office as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, his commitment to the integrity of the military was tested. When U.S. planes in the Iraq no-fly zone were attacked, a member of Congress suggested that perhaps "we" could fly a U-2 spy plane so low over Iraq that it could easily get hit. Then we'd have a reason "to kick Saddam out of Iraq." After Shelton responded that he would order that "just as soon as you are qualified to fly (it)," he was not asked again to compromise his office.

That's the kind of man who doesn't take his charges for granted.

Posted by Dar 2003-9-24 4:07:53 PM|| 2003-9-24 4:07:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 General Clark has a lot of baggage, dating back to Vietnam. I've been in the same general area as he was, and our accounts of the events of the time are very different. Guess it's the "other viewpoint" thing, rather than an outright lie. Let's just say that I won't donate money to the "cause", I won't campaign for him, and I sure as he$$ won't vote for him.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-9-24 5:31:21 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2003-9-24 5:31:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 The important Democrats eager to run retired Gen. Wesley Clark for president might exercise due diligence about a military career that was nearly terminated before he got his fourth star and then came to a premature end. The trouble with the general is pointed out by a bizarre incident in Bosnia nearly a decade ago.

Hattip to Drudgereport

Posted by cingold 2003-9-24 7:43:13 PM|| 2003-9-24 7:43:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Though a tad long, here's a comment on Gen. Wes Clark from someone who actually new and served with him during his Viet Nam days. Gives a different perspective on Wes, somewhat similar to that which Gen. Shelton alludes.

LVK
====================

Subject: GEN. Wesley Clark's Remarks on CNN Interview (Thurs., Mar. 20)
Date: March 03, 2003
Author: Mark Perrin Lowrey

Gentlemen:
I sense that it is time that I respond to your questions and comments about Wes Clark. I know him quite well. In terms of "raw intelligence" he has one of the two or three brightest and quickest minds of all the smart people that I have encountered during my 66 years on this planet. But, like some other brilliant people, his super high intelligence is accompanied by a strong dose of arrogance.

I first met Wes in the fall of 1969 when I was running the Big Red One Tactical Operations Center (TOC) at Lai Khe. Wes Clark was one of a group of very bright "high achievers" that the G-3, LTC Frederick Brown, had assembled to give the BRO [Big Red One - 1st Infantry Division] the world's best Operations Staff Section. Every officer that he had picked was an ex-instructor in the Department of Social Sciences at West Point--except for two: The Chief of Opns and The Deputy G-3. All of the section chiefs, except for myself and the Deputy, were men who had won impressive international scholarships and had spent several years of their careers as students at institute of higher learning. Clark was a Rhodes Scholar -- the cream of all scholarships -- the others were either Olmsted or Marshall Scholars. These were guys who were preparing themselves for great things later in life.

The two dumb asses that LTC Brown selected to work among the intellectual luminaries were picked for two fundamental reasons. He put me in charge of that element of the Division Headquarters that monitors the actions and activities across the entire Division Area of Operations and orchestrates the tactical and logistical response to whatever happens ASAP. For that job you need a guy with battlefield experience, down where we slugged it out with the enemy and the jungle. You need a person who can see what is developing on the ground from reading the messages that come in and watching the Map postings -- and then marshall the artillery support, tactical air support, airlift support, engineer support, commo support and the beans and bullets support to the maneuver units that he has also started in motion to respond to the situation. In that job it is important to have a guy whose previous experience enables him to analyze things and make decisions quickly -- and is not afraid to start things moving without asking permission of the people above him. You have to be willing to take full responsibility for your actions, but those actions had better have been the right ones! The main job of the other dumb ass in the G3 Section was to screen all the highly intellectual plans and papers prepared by the "brilliant guys" and make sure that the Division Chief of Staff could understand what they were saying and how it might help the BRO's war effort.

Wes Clark came to us almost directly from Oxford University in England. He had no experience whatever and was assigned to analyze body count data and other indicators designed to show us how well we were doing. He was very anxious to learn and spent a lot of time picking the brains (little though they were) of people like myself who had "been there, done that" and had lived to tell about it.

Some time around Christmas 1969 (I am a bit hazy on the exact time), Wes Clark was assigned to command a rifle company in the Mech Bn of the 16th Inf. (I can't recall whether it was the 1/16 or the 2/16). He didn't have command of the company very long, and was shot in the arm in the very first action that the unit had after he took command. That marked the end of his combat experience.

Wes went home and continued his climb up the ladder to the top of the Army's tree. Along the way he got quite a lot of experience at the battalion and brigade level, and worked for some of the army's very best combat commanders. One of those was Eddie Burba-who, in my opinion, is one of the great battlefield leaders of our era in American Military History. Those of you who know Bill Mullen ask him about Ed Burba.

But, to get back to Wes Clark, he wants to run for president and will run as a democrat. It has been said that if Liberman gets the nomination, Wes will be his VP running mate. Wes will never recant what he said [in the CNN interview] that was insulting to the men of the BRO in Viet Nam. He never really knew the soldiers that we marched among, and he is too arrogant to ever admit that he was wrong about anything.

Remember this: Wes Clark is one smart guy, and he is not an evil person. He is just toweringly ambitious and he "knows" that he is superior to all other human beings.

Mark Lowrey

Posted by LVK (C-1-18 1ID RVN) 2003-9-24 8:10:39 PM|| 2003-9-24 8:10:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Can't forget the dissing he got at his retirement party. He was stood up by the Joint Chiefs, and most of the other generals, too. Anybody who thinks he would have the respect of the armed forces in the unlikely chance he becomes president needs to change the air in his or her head.

Posted by Baba Yaga 2003-9-24 9:03:58 PM|| 2003-9-24 9:03:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I expect Field Marshal Kerry to kick his ass.

Fun Phact: Did you know the Field Marshall served in South East Asia?

Posted by Shipman 2003-9-24 9:39:48 PM|| 2003-9-24 9:39:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Hell, LVK if we're going back to 1969 GW was drunk, snorting coke and dodging the draft--kinda puts it in perspective huh?

Posted by Not Mike Moore 2003-9-25 12:16:28 AM|| 2003-9-25 12:16:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Hey, Not Mike:

Looks like most everyone who's still in the game save Wes has changed (aka "cleaned up") their act a bit since '69. Hard to stop being your own best friend. That last line in Mark Lowrey's piece kinda says it all - "...he "knows" that he is superior to all other human beings." That seems to be a constant theme running thru almost every commentary I've seen on Wes Clark so far.

By the way, dodging the draft don't mean flyin' F-4s. I have many friends who joined the Guard and Reserve to avoid RVN, but who ended up listening to hot metal fly fast thru the air near their heads. Also many friends who didn't get tagged to go as well - luck of the draw.

Posted by LVK (C-1-18 1ID RVN) 2003-9-25 9:06:40 PM|| 2003-9-25 9:06:40 PM|| Front Page Top

18:24 Sock Puppet of Doom
18:02 V is for Victory
21:06 LVK (C-1-18 1ID RVN)
02:28 Igs
00:20 Not Mike Moore
00:16 Not Mike Moore
00:13 Not Mike Moore
00:09 Not Mike Moore
00:01 Not Mike Moore
23:56 Not Mike Moore
23:55 Chris Smith
23:47 Ned
23:28 Old Patriot
22:47 tu3031
22:44 tu3031
22:35 tu3031
22:19 Super Hose
22:16 Super Hose
22:12 True German Ally
21:57 Shipman
21:52 Shipman
21:48 Shipman
21:43 Shipman
21:39 Shipman