Article

2003-09-22 Europe

Turk troop deployment in Iraq not tied to UN resolution

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Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-09-22 00:34|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Hello Fred, first my compliments for your changed attitude, you donât delete postings you donât like anymore, I appreciate that, thanx.

Latest reports show that the US and Turkey must have agreed in a far stadium, some concrete steps taken are showing that Turkish troop deployment will soon going to happen. Today the general command released a news that a group of 4 coordination and communication officers where dispatched to the central US headquarters in Baghdad as preliminary to deployment.

Posted by Murat 2003-9-22 5:17:27 AM|| 2003-9-22 5:17:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 this is in addition to the special ops forces Turkey had surreptitiously slipped in earlier, and were caught, right? Turkey is not our friend, and the back stabbing won't be forgotten. This is a small gesture now that they know the EU and France played them for suckers. And what was this:"Latest reports show that the US and Turkey must have agreed in a far stadium, some concrete steps taken are showing that Turkish troop deployment will soon going to happen" ? Nice

Posted by Frank G 2003-9-22 7:27:51 AM|| 2003-9-22 7:27:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Frank G.

To my big displeasure I have to stay objective, all the signs points towards an agreement between the Turkish government and the US, 4 officers have been dispatched to the US headquarters in Baghdad for coordination. So that makes me believe that a Turkish troop deployment wonât take long anymore, unless the parliament I hope reject the motion.

You are a typical American thinker mumbling about EU and France, who cares a shit about them. And about Turkish American friendship LOL, does America have friends, does any nation have, I donât believe in friendship between nations, I believe in mutual interests.

Posted by Murat 2003-9-22 7:40:28 AM|| 2003-9-22 7:40:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 mumbling? lol
If you don't believe there are friendships, you haven't paid attention. America's relationship with Britain and Australia? With Israel? These are beyond mutual interest treaties. They are shared histories and cultural ties

Posted by Frank G 2003-9-22 7:48:06 AM|| 2003-9-22 7:48:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Frank G >> Why knock Murat about the EU. At least he's got the attitude of "If you've got lemons, then make lemonade."

Yeah, the EU did play Turkey like a sucker. (Which initially I felt bad for.) But so too did Turkey play the US for one as well. (Sympathy gone.)

Even after the US was there for Turkey fighting to support it's defense with Patriot missle systems at NATO while damn near the rest of NATO said to hell with Turkey. Then, of course, they stabbed us in the back. If that's how they treat allies, then they deserve the shit they get shoveled. Bon Apetite Turkey!

I knew our "former" allies were gone once the Islamics took control of the government. Our last hope was for their military leaders to step in which they didn't.

I say to hell with the shitbags. I say we support a Kurdish state and then build bases. What would Turkey do then? Die in droves or hate us. Then Murat would even get a chance to fight the infidels. (Or more likely, don a dress and wait out the war.) Who cares. Nobody else loves Turkey either. Maybe the French would come to their rescue. LMAO.

Posted by Paul 2003-9-22 8:24:46 AM|| 2003-9-22 8:24:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Ya 'think that 8.7Bill in loans(bribes)had any thing to do with it.
Murat,would you prefer we pulled our troops head North,set-up an independant Kurdistan and allow the South to descend into civil war between the Sunnis and Shias.

That would be my preference too,let them kill each other off.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-9-22 8:34:35 AM|| 2003-9-22 8:34:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 French rescuing Turkey? Bwahahahaha

they have nothing the French want - it's all about the ooiiillll, as they say

Posted by Frank G 2003-9-22 8:37:07 AM|| 2003-9-22 8:37:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 That's right on Anonymous, Turkey is like a cheap whore. First time around we just didn't offer enough cash. But then when your economy is in the shithole, anything for some Yankee Dollars, right? Question is what are we getting for our 8.7 billion?

Posted by Swiggles 2003-9-22 8:43:32 AM|| 2003-9-22 8:43:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Turkey has the potential to control water flows in major parts of the Middle East. That is one value of her to the creation of a prosperous, moderate set of countries in that region.

Don't count the generals out, either. I am very glad they did not have to intervene, but I suspect that if the Islamacists go overboard, that possibility remains. The demagogues who are playing games around Turkey's positions re: the US know that very well.

Posted by rkb 2003-9-22 8:54:29 AM|| 2003-9-22 8:54:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Swiggles,

OK I won't blame you for not being an economy prof., fact is that the Turkish economy has recovered from the 2001 crisis. At the moment there is no need for Yankee dollars (at least no immediate need), better keep those dolars for the record deficite the US is facing.

I believe the motive to sent troops is more because the Americans leave shit behind when they can't handle the situation anymore. Someone has to clean up the dirt a son of a bitch leaves behind.

Posted by Murat 2003-9-22 9:04:59 AM|| 2003-9-22 9:04:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 "Someone has to clean up the dirt a son of a bitch leaves behind."

Screw you,Urat bastard!Hope you have fun danceing with the PKK.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-9-22 9:38:06 AM|| 2003-9-22 9:38:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Mow, Murat, did you have to sink to that? You were maintaining so nicely too..*shakes head*

Posted by Frank G 2003-9-22 9:46:48 AM|| 2003-9-22 9:46:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 I'm with Murat on this one: I'd be happy to keep the 8.7 Billion. Word is out that the Iraqis are pissed off that few other Arab/Islamic nations helped liberate them from Saddam. No friends, only national interests.

And I don't believe in friendships at the international level either. Just national interests. Any other way of thinking just stuffs your head up your ass, and you only end up getting screwed in the nose.

(Hmm, maybe with the exception of the Anglosphere: The aussies got on board when they had their own 9/11 in Bali. Britain's in with us all the way, despite trying to lay the eurowhore. NZ and Ireland are too small to play. And Canada's suffering from a bad head cold quebecois/francaise. Here's hoping the Canucks join the next party...)

Posted by Ptah 2003-9-22 9:53:15 AM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2003-9-22 9:53:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Frank, Murat simply *hates* America and Americans. Somedays he controls it, somedays he doesn't.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-9-22 9:53:19 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-9-22 9:53:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Murat

Don't go overboard on the Machiavellian side. Countries have interests and states are the "coldest of the cold monsters" but in democracies you have to keep public opinions in mind. If you support a country your nationals find unpalatable you could end losing elections. Even in dictatorships you have to keep in mind that soldiers sent to unpopular wars fight poorly and will cause you major embarassment if they are defeated. Not to mention the disctator has to keep in mind possibility of a military coup (cd the fall of Salazar) if Army has to fight an unpopular war.

And that is why while states have no friends, nations have them and leaders would be better to keep that in mind. Compare your own reaction to the two following sentences: "Turkish army is sent to protect the Tutsis against genocide in Rwanda" and "Turkish army is sent to protect Azeris against genocide at the hands of Armenians"

Posted by JFM 2003-9-22 10:10:38 AM|| 2003-9-22 10:10:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Murat

No need for Yankee dollars? Then don't ask for them, close the bases (who spend money in the Turkish economy) and look where your economy goes.

Posted by JFM 2003-9-22 10:17:01 AM|| 2003-9-22 10:17:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 JFM,

Nobody asked for the Yankee dollars, if so we would have made some horse trading and accepted those American troops in may.

Anyway this may interest you: The true reason why the US needs Turkish troops

Posted by Murat 2003-9-22 10:54:52 AM|| 2003-9-22 10:54:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Facts:
1. Turkey needs U.S. dollar
2. U.S. needs Turkish troops in Iraq
3. They agreed to give each other what they need

That's good enough for me.

Posted by . 2003-9-22 12:21:51 PM|| 2003-9-22 12:21:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 I do have to agree with Murat. The US fucked itself during the Clinton years when it downsized (just as it historically always has after major conflicts) and Clinton's sorry ass under funded it for eight long years. I know, I was there.

The US does need to gain back some of those divisions to counter the threat of terrorism, providing flexibility of movement/deployment and rotation of units. We can see how easily our two front war theory has "exposed our flanks". With 1,000 well trained guerillas, they can tie up more than ten times their numbers.

The other problem is that our way of thinking needs to change. This "Are we done yet?" mantra the 24 hour news cycle repeats every 30 seconds have to go. Currently the American public's attention span lasts about as long as a TV commercial. We as a people have to think of it as a long term goal. THe media treats it as a baseball game. One day we're winning the next we're losing. You can win almost every battle and still lose the war.
As for Turkish troops. They are not a necessity and never have been. We need troops merely to free up our own for other missions until we build up more divisions. Turks will do for now, but not preferred. Bush is scrambling on this one. After all (in reference to lack of troops), piss poor planning prevents proper performance.

Posted by Paul 2003-9-22 12:29:12 PM|| 2003-9-22 12:29:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Murat

I will be cynical and I will tell you why the US needs Turkish troops. First: Because in case there is a need to do some cleansings at Tikrit or Falujah the American troops are far too soft hearted for doing the job real well. An Armenian friend told me yours aren't.

Second: Because my experience with the the Muslim world is that they scream bloody murder if an American or Israeli soldier dares to pull a hair from a Muslim but will keep a deafening silence when Muslims slaughter other Muslims. See Algeria, the fate of Hazars under Taliban rule
or of Iraquis under Saddam.

That is why Turks would be really useful.

Posted by JFM 2003-9-22 12:47:56 PM|| 2003-9-22 12:47:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 I sort of agree with JFM here. The Turks are known as good 'interogators' and the quality of their soldiers is as good as, if not better than, any country in Europe except England (which like our soldiers are good at using technical equipment that the Turks don't have). Furthermore, because they ruled much of the Arab world fairly efficiently for several centuries a while back, there is some reason to believe they could do so effectively now. The key will be to keep the Turks from causing a problem in the Kurdish area where ethnic issues might arise or in the Shiite areas where religious issues might arise.

Posted by mhw 2003-9-22 1:00:58 PM|| 2003-9-22 1:00:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 No, no, NO! We do NOT want Turkish troops in Iraq. The only locals who will welcome them will be the Turkomen minority. The rest have an opinion of the Turks that is in the range of hate <---> spite.

When the Turks ruled that region, insurrection and unrest were common. The Arabs seethed the last century of Ottoman rule, and there's no reason to think things have changed. The Arabs would NOT remain quiet if fellow Muslims killed their brethen, if said fellow Muslim was a Turk.

This is a bad move in a lot of ways. Let the Turks stay home and simply remind them, again and again, that France will never allow them into the EU.

Posted by Steve White 2003-9-22 2:09:08 PM|| 2003-9-22 2:09:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 I believe that the $8 billion is the approximate amount that Turkey got hosed as a result of the first Gulf War. Remember when we decided to go back to our domestic issues and leave a giant mess in the place we bailed out of.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-9-22 2:24:28 PM|| 2003-9-22 2:24:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Steve White:

I was joking. I think the Turks can handle Arabs (when was the last time the Arabs have defeated the Turks without Western assistance? Hmm, never?) but they have problems with Kurds and an Islamist government: that is two reasons for them trying to sabotage Iraq's reconstruction.

Posted by JFM 2003-9-22 2:34:00 PM|| 2003-9-22 2:34:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Super Hose >> That's true too. We did screw Turkey after the last war. Just like we left the Afghans to rot as soon as the Soviets left.

mhw >> You're right in the fact that they're good warriors and that some of their tactics do raise eyebrows.

Steve White >> In the end considering everything said, Steve's points trumps it all. The Turks want to go because of the Turkomen minority and to harass the Kurds. A Turkish deployment will be like pulling the grenade and throwing the pin. That is, of course, unless they are placed down south near Basra, which I doubt.

Time is what's killing us now. All we need is 6-8 more months before the Iraqi police and military can start coming into play. The Turks, and French we don't need. However, we do need money and more troops. As long as the Iraqi oil pipes aren't producing than the US taxpayer is footing the bill. That isn't going to play well next year for the elections.

Posted by Paul 2003-9-22 4:59:56 PM|| 2003-9-22 4:59:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 To recap after the last war, we left Turkey with a big problem because the Saudi's said it would be OK. Our transit request through Turkey was interpretted by many folks in Turkey as the US yelling BOHICA at the top of our lungs.

We seem to be doing a little bit better this time around, which is one reason why we seem to be gaining some support in Turkey.

Murat's perception is that we sandbagged the Turks in Korea, then the Saratoga shot their flagship during an excersise, then we conned them into supporting our coalition in Desert Storm before we bailed on them leaving refuges and unrest.

It has actually worked out better this time because we didn't cut a bunch of deals to get coalition members. Can you imagine what it would have been like if we had Jaques Strap along for the ride on the is one. 9-11 has made the US more serious about our dealings with the world. That's a good thing.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-9-22 7:35:50 PM|| 2003-9-22 7:35:50 PM|| Front Page Top

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