Article

2003-07-23 -Short Attention Span Theater-

War Gear Assessment: Small Arms and Individual Equipment Lessons Learned

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Posted by PD 2003-07-23 4:46:48 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Great article! No real surprises here. The 9mm proved ineffective in a combat enviroment (I still don't know what was wrong with the .45 ACP). I have to wonder if the directive only load 10 rounds into 15 round magazines was PC or stupidity. Complaints about the .223 ammo, which seems to shoot right through everything leaving a small hole and minor wound channel.

The stars of the combat load the m203 grenade launcher and the Barrett .50 sniper rifle - take out a vehicle with a rifle at over 1000 meters (do the math).

Posted by Douglas De Bono 2003-7-23 9:20:07 AM|| [http://www.DouglasDeBono.com] 2003-7-23 9:20:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I still don't know what was wrong with the .45 ACP
The only reason we switched to the 9mm was that it was the NATO standard round. In between wars, nobody thinks anyone is going to need a pistol, so they get short shrift. Only when the shooting starts and things get up close and personnel do you find out that you really need one. And time after time after time, the .38/9mm comes up short. The Brits found this out in India(?) and went to a .455 and the US did the same during the Phillipine occupation. Need to get our guys a new .45 ACP pistol, maybe a Glock.

Posted by Steve 2003-7-23 10:21:00 AM|| 2003-7-23 10:21:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 The .45 ACP is the best combat pistol in the world and we should have never changed. It is simple to maintain, it will operate if it is full of mud, blood, sand or goo.
I personally used it to shoot three NVA out of my hootch one night. I had a Platoon leader who used all of his .45 ammo and was taking it from others. I asked him why and he said they were so close that the M-16 was too clumsy to use.
The problems with the 9mm and the .38 are well known to police forces, that is why they went from the .38 special to the .357 mag back when. I haven't heard much complaining from my law enforcement friends about the 9 mm but I assure you the guys in the 3ID are probably wishing they had the .45 ACP.
The .45 ACP would stop a bus. It would knock a Vietnamese bad guy about ten feet up in the air on impact. If you want to stop someone running either at you or away from you, the .45 will definitely stop them.
I also think the Thompson would be a great weapon in Iraq.

Posted by SOG475 2003-7-23 10:45:53 AM|| 2003-7-23 10:45:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Can somebody explain what exactly is meant by the term "ballistic breacher" mentioned in the article in the "Shotgun" section ? Is it simply shooting down doors, or more than that ?

Posted by Carl in NH 2003-7-23 11:26:53 AM|| 2003-7-23 11:26:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Nope, that's it. Shoot the lock and the hinges, then kick.

Posted by Steve 2003-7-23 11:30:36 AM|| 2003-7-23 11:30:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 A ballistic breacher is just that, something to shoot down doors and clear out a bar during a bar fight.
I kinda like the idea of a buckshot round for the grenade launcher. That would be very effective in close combat.

Posted by SOG475 2003-7-23 11:32:08 AM|| 2003-7-23 11:32:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Tried to find a picture of the breaching too--battle axe---anybody know what it looks like?

Posted by raptor 2003-7-23 11:42:16 AM|| 2003-7-23 11:42:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 What amazed me about the piece is how often and how much these grossly underpaid put-it-all-on-the-line asskickers spend out of their own pockets to improve or correct deficiencies in the gear issued - for which we paid e-NORMOUS amounts of money to aquire.

The procurement system needs to be treated as a hostile adversary until it is responsive to these people. Period.

These men and women are no-shit heroes to every American patriot - and to discover that they have to pony up very scarce cash to try to stay alive makes me just slightly crazy.

Posted by PD 2003-7-23 11:43:00 AM|| 2003-7-23 11:43:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 "Soldiers had many positive comments about the battle ax."

Cheeze, war hasn't changed in the past thousand years as much as I thought...

Posted by Carl in NH 2003-7-23 11:53:16 AM|| 2003-7-23 11:53:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 A lot of guys in the last Gulf War brought their own. Unfortunately, the Army brass decided that personnel firearms had no place in a combat zone. (Huh? I know, I know go Army) They took whatever wasn't cleverly hidden in the Bradleys (Hey Sir they're not taped under the turret BWAHAHAHAHAHA) and locked them in the "armsroom".

I carried the 16/203 combo (best thing since beer!) and was only issued time delayed HE, smoke, and I think an illum round. No impact HE or Buckshot to be found. I had a buddy that had actually fired the buckshot rounds but only gave it a so-so rating. The VN vets were scratching their heads wondering why they ever got rid of the flecette round used in the M-79.
They too swore by the .45 ACP.

Posted by Paul 2003-7-23 1:39:42 PM|| 2003-7-23 1:39:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Yep, Scratching my head over the choice of some limp wristed euro pistol over the good old .45 ACP. Certified ass-kicker. I center punched a NVA type with the .45 and it took out about seven vertibrae on the exit wound.....which was about the size of a basketball, the impact blew him out of the door of my hootch and about fifteen feet beyond. A 9mm would not do that. Heck even with body armour a .45 would kick the target down the street.
I still think the old Thompson would be a better choice for clean up work than the Uzi or any of those other namby pamby 9mm things that people wave around and claim as weapons...they might be useful as a club in hand to hand but they have no effect on anyone with any sort of body armor.

Posted by SOG475 2003-7-23 3:42:32 PM|| 2003-7-23 3:42:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I guess we have to learn once each century that 9mm/.38 cal handguns don't stop bad guys. My Army time was the '70s, and I loved the old M1911A1 .45. An old Army buddy of mine has a .45 and a Baretta M-92. We spent the day firing together at a local range, and the .45 was much easier to hit with. I had to laugh about the 9mm magazine spring - the M-16A1's I trained with had the same problem, and we were told to only put 18 rounds in the standard 20 round magazines. Guess that's something else that hasn't changed. The comment about the lack of a buckshot round for the M203 surprised me too. I remember training with the M-79 Flechette round Paul mentions. Definitely a top-rank barroom clearer.

Posted by Dan 2003-7-23 3:42:55 PM|| 2003-7-23 3:42:55 PM|| Front Page Top

17:41 Paul
17:26 Paul
17:23 Paul
15:53 Douglas De Bono
09:27 Ptah
06:55 Anon1
06:22 Anon1
02:47 Dan Hartung
02:41 Dan Hartung
23:55 DANEgerus
23:54 DANEgerus
23:31 Rafael
22:54 Zhang Fei
22:41 Matt
22:28 Tokyo Taro
22:25 Rafael
22:18 Frank G
22:17 debbie
22:17 debbie
22:15 Frank G
22:13 Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)
22:12 Frank G
22:04 Frank G
22:03 stevey robinson