Article

2004-12-07 Europe

Germany Seeks to End EU's China Arms Ban

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Posted by JerseyMike 2004-12-07 7:44:37 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Boy, those hippocritical Germans. They HATE to kill people, but boy do they LOVE to sell weapons so that others can.

Posted by 98zulu 2004-12-07 9:05:55 AM|| 2004-12-07 9:05:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 pretty obviously NO bases are needed in Germany, eh?

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-07 9:38:17 AM|| 2004-12-07 9:38:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 This shows that Schroeder wasn't just posturing when he attacked the US - as an electioneering tactic - during German elections some years back.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-12-07 10:03:58 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-12-07 10:03:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Frank, I draw the opposite conclusion. We need to keep those bases now, more than ever. If we're gone and the Germans spend all their time talking to frogs, they'll go bonkers again. No Rhineland redux.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-07 10:08:11 AM|| 2004-12-07 10:08:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 ? So our bases are there to also keep the German peace? You and I are clearly seeing things different today. OK....

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-07 10:11:33 AM|| 2004-12-07 10:11:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 The Germans down, the Russians out and the Americans in. The problem with taking NATO out of theater is that it weakens each of these goals. I have no reason to believe the Europeans have really fundamentaly changed in the last sixty years. Their behaviour since the fall of the Soviet Union has only reinforced my opinion. Better to leave our troops there than to have to send them over one more time. To get Europe permanently fixed will take at least 100 more years.

It is good to discuss differences with someone you respect. Makes one test ideas and think.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-07 10:18:53 AM|| 2004-12-07 10:18:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Well, removing them would certainly put to the test the international community's notion that force must never be used. Then, once again, those stupid brutish Americans would have to go in and save all the Euro geniuses from their own deadly illusions. Or would we?

No deal is too smarmy for business there (which is why they have no problem buying hostages back).

Posted by Jules 187 2004-12-07 10:19:29 AM|| 2004-12-07 10:19:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 and whaddaya know, China announces a big Airbus and Siemens order this morning.

http://www.chinaonline.com/topstories/cs-protected/041206/01.asp

The Germans, like the French, are not above putting their principles aside when it comes to closing a big deal. Hypocritical bastards is an understatement.

Posted by jeff 2004-12-07 10:38:46 AM|| 2004-12-07 10:38:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 The Germans, like the French, are not above putting their principles aside when it comes to closing a big deal

Heh heh - some Americans aren't either:
Former president Bill Clinton on Monday helped launch a new Internet search company backed by the Chinese government which says its technology uses artificial intelligence to produce better results than Google Inc.

"I hope you all make lots of money," Clinton told executives at the launch of Accoona Corp., which donated an undisclosed amount to the William J. Clinton Foundation.

The Chinese government, one of several large backers, has granted Accoona a 20-year exclusive partnership with the China Daily Information Co., the government agency that runs an official Chinese and English Web site.

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-07 10:45:37 AM|| 2004-12-07 10:45:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I bet that it does great searches, but you're not allowed to see the results.

Posted by Shipman 2004-12-07 11:26:12 AM|| 2004-12-07 11:26:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 If we're gone and the Germans spend all their time talking to frogs, they'll go bonkers again.

If they end up going at it with each other, I don't see why that's a bad thing....

Better to leave our troops there than to have to send them over one more time.

Why send them over at all? Twice is enough; the third time there's a problem, they can either fix it among themselves or kill each other in the process. Too much American blood has been spilled over there already. Enough is enough.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-12-07 11:49:54 AM|| 2004-12-07 11:49:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 "Call me paranoid, but the EU is doing everything it possibly can to undermine the U.S."

Really?

Then tell me: if the EU wasn't around, what would have prevented Chirac and Shroeder from lifting their own nations' embargo without needing to convince anyone else on the matter?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-07 12:10:50 PM|| 2004-12-07 12:10:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Aris, that's apples and oranges. France and Germany managed to lift their own nations' embargo against Saddam Hussein's Iraq without convincing anyone else...although it must be admitted that after they had acted unilaterally, they did attempt -- without success -- to convince the UN Security Council to lift that embargo. Convincing others answers their purpose of poking the U.S. in the eye, not enabling change of their own private policies.

Oh, and you previously mentioned you'd finished your studies. Congratulations! What's in the future for our Greek correspondent?

Posted by trailing wife 2004-12-07 1:28:31 PM|| 2004-12-07 1:28:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 What difference does that make Aris?

Posted by JerseyMike 2004-12-07 2:03:00 PM|| 2004-12-07 2:03:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 #9 Just goes to show you with the Clinton's, EVERYTHING is for sale. The Lincoln bedroon, himself etc. I bet the Chinese were laughing their asses off. Look at the former US President,
he really is a cheap whore! lol

Posted by 98zulu 2004-12-07 2:04:13 PM|| 2004-12-07 2:04:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 My questions to Herr Schroeder is how far will he go in selling military equipment to the Chicoms? One issue would be the sale of German diesel submarine technology to the Chicoms. They won't sell diesel boats to the Taiwanese. Will they sell 'em to the Chicoms?

If they sell Airbuses to the Chicoms, that's one thing. The Chicoms can always get them refit for dual use. I am interested in the real mil stuff.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-12-07 2:45:51 PM|| 2004-12-07 2:45:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 JerseyMike> What difference does that make Aris?

Well, your reading of the story was that the EU was "doing everything it possibly could to undermine the US", including arming China.

My reading of the story, however, was that the EU is one of the forces that prevented France and Germany from lifting the embargo against China.

So, I'd say it's the difference between black and white.

trailing wife> What's in the future for our Greek correspondent?

A couple months or so of doing various paying projects, then a year or so at the army. Then we'll see.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-07 4:24:35 PM|| 2004-12-07 4:24:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 98Z, What makes you think this is the first deal the ChiComs have done with Clinton? Remember Loral?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-07 4:51:35 PM|| 2004-12-07 4:51:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Buddhist temples? "No controlling legal authority"? Johnny Chung?.....

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-07 5:01:55 PM|| 2004-12-07 5:01:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Aris, perhaps the problem is mine. When I see France and Germany together, I automatically think EU. They do act as if they own it.

Posted by JerseyMike 2004-12-07 7:46:58 PM|| 2004-12-07 7:46:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 JerseyMike> When I see France and Germany together, I automatically think EU. They do act as if they own it.

But as you can see through this example (and other ones also), they clearly don't.

The Franco-German axis is a quite different thing than the EU. Make sure to know where you point your arrows before hurling them.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-07 8:01:29 PM|| 2004-12-07 8:01:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 France clearly does act as if it owns the EU, even though it doesn't. We'll see what happens after the Dec. 17 summit, Aris. If the ban is lifted, JerseyMike's perspective may be better than yours.

Posted by Tom 2004-12-07 8:18:18 PM|| 2004-12-07 8:18:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Europe's fixation with moderating America's super-power status at any cost is simply insane. China has yet to show significant improvement of its human rights track record or any substantial abatement of the rampant corruption and graft within their borders.

How anyone in Europe can possibly pretend that China is ripe for anything but a melt-down or civil war is beyond me. Should it become necessary to blockade the Persian gulf, China will be one of the first to be hurt, as they continue to rely upon Iranian oil.

All we need is a well-armed China to contest the much needed actions against Iran that are almost guaranteed to come. While Europe manages to blind itself to how emperiled they are by Iran's openly hostile arms development, America cannot possibly afford to disregard the huge danger of enabling any capability for Middle East intervention by the Chinese.

Europe must be confronted with some sort of excruciating price tag should they continue to envision arming the Chinese. Their blinding greed must not be allowed to steer them into a catastrophic head-on collision with America's security needs.

Posted by Zenster 2004-12-07 10:36:56 PM|| 2004-12-07 10:36:56 PM|| Front Page Top

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