Article

2004-12-07 Arabia

Saudi foreign job recruitment drops by 38 Percent

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Posted by Seafarious 2004-12-07 12:29:57 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Saudi's are the laziest bums. They won't work as a grocery clerk because it's insulting, they let the foreigners do it, even though they have very high unemployement.

Posted by Glique Ulavilet8516 2004-12-07 1:02:03 AM|| 2004-12-07 1:02:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 House o Saud? or House o Cards?

Posted by lex 2004-12-07 1:04:20 AM|| 2004-12-07 1:04:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Some fraction of this is probably part of Saudization, but I would guess most is not - and the work goes wanting. That doesn't mean they aren't hiring Saudis, heh, I said the work goes wanting.

The word I'm getting is a steady withdrawal of expats. Particularly everyone is sending their families back, with the men then hanging on as long as they dare or need, according to their plans. The Jeddah Consulate attack yesterday will prove that nothing is over and that no one is safe - at least outside Aramco's Dhahran Camp, which is undoubtedly better defended than any consulate. So the contractors who have to live outside will definitely continue to dwindle. The Aramcons inside the Camp will prolly become prisoners - and fall out as their finances allow.

Just a guess, but I suspect that Aramco is beginning to feel the effects of the intelligent Westerners withdrawing. There are, of course, Aramcon Employees who are financial slaves and even Stockholm-ish morons (recall Paul Johnson) who'll try to stick it out, but really - those people aren't the ones who make Aramco work. The Western Aramcon population has steadily dropped over the last decade or so - cuz the Saudis wanted the slots and to live in houses in "Little America". The real expertise bubble today is the contractors - and they're not renewing - they're leaving.

Cause has prolly begun to have its effect.

Posted by .com 2004-12-07 1:48:28 AM|| 2004-12-07 1:48:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 What's to stop technically competent Chinese, Indians, Turks, or even Iranians from replacing Westerners? I ask because I think is a massive shift underway in who will be the sponsors and protectors of the oil rich Persian gulf.

Posted by ed 2004-12-07 1:56:12 AM|| 2004-12-07 1:56:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Most foreign workers will be unskilled low skilled construction worker and maid types. What interesting here is a sharp reduction in the workers who do the grunge work. I'll assume if you can't get a Saudi to man a grocery checkout, you sure as hell won't get them to clean toilets or repair roads in 50 degree heat.

Tie this news in with yesterday's news that the increased oil revenues are not going into the banking system and yesterday's article's conclusion that the money is going into economic development (in SA) is clearly false (or otherwise more workers would be coming in).

So where is all that money going? Anyone else smell rats preparing to leave a sinking ship.

Posted by phil_b 2004-12-07 2:02:22 AM|| 2004-12-07 2:02:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 They'll hire them, no doubt, and these people will try to fill the holes, no doubt. And it won't be enough for several reasons - all of which sound arrogant, so I'd rather not elaborate much. You have no difficulty admiring the work of the US Military and seeing in them the best of the best. You think US expat contractors aren't similarly kick-ass - relative to anyone on the planet? Lol! We are.

Posted by .com 2004-12-07 2:15:47 AM|| 2004-12-07 2:15:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 It does indeed sound arrogant, .com, but no less true. In part because Americans bring their work ethic with them: when we were in Germany my husband was threatened with sanctions for going to the office on weekends (the girls were still babies, and home was not a good work environment), and for not taking his entire 8 weeks of vacation each year. The other part is that our culture teaches thinking beyond the defined requirements of the job, which can be a multiplying factor for the abilities of others (it can also drive them crazy, as they feel their turf is being trod upon, but that's another story).

Posted by trailing wife 2004-12-07 6:11:33 AM|| 2004-12-07 6:11:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Amen to that, trailing wife and .com. My brother was amazed overseas when he was considered a workaholic for putting in a 40 hour week.

Posted by Desert Blondie 2004-12-07 9:04:02 AM|| 2004-12-07 9:04:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 not only for arrogant reasons I suspect. Much of the non-hellhole third world has its own very considerable needs for technical expertise for development, resource production, etc. I cant imagine say China, with its huge infrastructure plans having many engineers to spare, and i suspect they absorb a good share of Japanese contractors as well. The only 3rd world country that has traditionally had lots of good university graduates to spare has been India, and even there the growth of the economy may finally be catching up to the excess numbers of University graduates.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-12-07 9:10:15 AM|| 2004-12-07 9:10:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 trailing wife and .com,
You are both absolutely right! My husband had an opportunity to work on a major project there and he was accused of thinking too much.

"....There are, of course, Aramcon Employees who are financial slaves and even Stockholm-ish morons (recall Paul Johnson) who'll try to stick it out, but really - those people aren't the ones who make Aramco work."
The above is a very sad statement but very true. There exists a number of westerners who, for the money, have compromised their professional ethics. They do not realized that once they come back to the real world, they are deemed unemployable because they have forgotten how to earn an honest day pay.

Posted by Anonymous4724 2004-12-07 10:25:26 AM|| 2004-12-07 10:25:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Lol! I was a Type A who thought 60+ hrs was a normal week, heh. You folks will recognize this "complaint":
"Slow down! You're making people look bad."

You can imagine the form of some of my replies - since I'm such a sensitive and diplomatic type - after I stopped laughing in their faces, that is, heh. I didn't want to learn how to coast along - I knew I wouldn't be there in LalaLand forever - and that's a bad habit if you know you're coming back to The World. I could say much much more...

One little allegory (proving how arrogant I am, in case Lh doesn't yet have indigestion over this, this, unseemly American honesty): anybody can crank out cookies if given the cutter and dough. But somebody has to design new cutters, new processes, new methods - and those people, in my 30 yrs as a no-shit keyboard-swinging programmer, don't grow on trees - and university degrees have nothing to do with it. It's a way of thinking which does not include conformity - it's individualistic, it's risk-taking, it's arrogance to go your own way, it's to fear failure less than you value success, and it's in-your-face when necessary because you often have to fight your own management to do anything useful. Hell, most of those wimps were mediocre techies who realized they couldn't keep up and started pandering and brown-nosing for a management position. Cheesedicks. Note, also, that the adventure-seekers commonly have most of these other traits - part of a "type", if you will. Think about it. Just for fun, now, tell me where you can find those traits bundled with fundamental technical skills and we'll agree on where the kick-ass people come from. Big Hint: it isn't phreakin' China. F**kin' Duh.

Posted by .com 2004-12-07 11:55:30 AM|| 2004-12-07 11:55:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Good point, LH. Then, too, in China at least the engineers belong to the State, as do all employees, and thus cannot choose to work abroad simply because the pay is [much!] better. As for India, the U.S. has long been the destination of choice for India's excess technical people -- the wives aren't treated like servants just because of their skin colour. (True story: American-born Indian friends of mine were sent for three years to the Phillipines, where both the locals and the expats treated her like crap. It took her the better part of 18 months to find friends who accepted her as American. She was very happy to come back home, poor dear.)

Spot on, Desert Blondie. Did your brother get the concerned speeches (not entirely untrue) about the need to find a better work/life balance?

Posted by trailing wife 2004-12-07 11:56:12 AM|| 2004-12-07 11:56:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 I had similar experiences when I was stationed in Germany in 1988. We had a big flap the Friday before New Year's. I'd let all my people go at 2:30 because things were unbelievably slow. Got a priority call at 4:10 for work that HAD to be done by Sunday, and delivered to three commands. By 6:00 I had a full crew working. We worked around the clock and met the deadline by 2 hours. We had to deliver one copy of the materials to Mons, to NATO headquarters. There was no one on duty that could accept it until Tuesday morning. By then, things had already been taken care of and the crisis resolved. Americans think and work differently than Europeans, and the Europeans are better than some Asians, most Africans and all the folks in the Middle East about working.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-12-07 2:39:57 PM|| [http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2004-12-07 2:39:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 I think its the pioneer mindset, OP: if I don't get it done correctly and on time, people will die -- no option to wait until later, or until the authorities take care of it. Oh yes, and its just me out here, so I'd better get moving.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-12-07 3:04:45 PM|| 2004-12-07 3:04:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Getting back to the thread, however, the work that is not getting done is setting the table for future exploration and expansion that will be needed in the years to come. Saudis appear to be the only ones with "excess capacity" that can be relyed on as a makket carrot or stick. Without developing new capacity, our interests are threatened when the market tightens and no one can be pressured to extract more.
More prices to be paid in a stagnant capacity market is nothing to take comfort in.

Posted by Capsu78 2004-12-07 3:18:15 PM|| 2004-12-07 3:18:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 .com: âtell me where you can find those traits bundled with fundamental technical skills and we'll agree on where the kick-ass people come from. Big Hint: it isn't phreakin' China.â

China values conformity over individualism and tradition over innovation. However China is rapidly changing. Take the Chinese out of the old Chinese culture and they can be very creative and productive. E.g., Hong Kong, Singapore, and the US. I follow scientific developments closely. Most science papers today have at least one Asian co-author.

trailing wife: âThen, too, in China at least the engineers belong to the State, as do all employeesâ

This is no longer true. State industry is closing down and laying off workers. Those workers have to find new jobs on their own. Unlike the US and Europe, there are few state support systems for those without work.

I donât believe it is difficult for Chinese to leave China today. (Iâve met many students from China who are studying in the US.) It may be difficult for Chinese to go to other countries because those countries impose visa and immigration restrictions.

Posted by Anonymous5032 2004-12-07 3:25:05 PM|| 2004-12-07 3:25:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Finding other foreigners to replace the Western expat is not the problem for the Magic Kingdom. It's finding Saudis who will accept working with 3rd world-looking people. An ethnic Chinese from Malaysia who replaced a Westerner just wouldn't fit in the eyes of most Saudi tea sippers. Some time soon the boys will be sitting around an office massaging their gums with sawak sticks and rueing the day when the "khawaja" meester Beel and meester Jeemes left to go back home.

Posted by chicago mike 2004-12-07 4:39:22 PM|| 2004-12-07 4:39:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 sawak sticks

Is that the Ramadan stick thing?

Posted by Shipman 2004-12-07 5:16:03 PM|| 2004-12-07 5:16:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 trailing wife, actually, no.....mainly because he's single, could drink them under the table, and took off each weekend to go exploring in the Central European heartland. His company paid for the rental car and the gas. Plus a per diem. Lucky little bast*rd! ;)

Posted by Desert Blondie 2004-12-07 9:44:46 PM|| 2004-12-07 9:44:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 OP: Americans think and work differently than Europeans, and the Europeans are better than some Asians, most Africans and all the folks in the Middle East about working.

Chinese work hours in the (private sector) textile, toy and electronics industries are as follows: 8 am to 7 pm, with a 1.5 hour lunch break in between. Most of East Asia work really long hours, and work half-days on Saturdays. No comparison with the US, let alone with Europe.

trailing wife: Then, too, in China at least the engineers belong to the State, as do all employees, and thus cannot choose to work abroad simply because the pay is [much!] better.

Actually, they wish they belonged to the state. China is trying to export as many college graduates as it can to ease the unemployment problem among new graduates. China's job market is laissez faire with the exception that connected folks (public or private sector) get the good jobs.

trailing wife: True story: American-born Indian friends of mine were sent for three years to the Phillipines, where both the locals and the expats treated her like crap. It took her the better part of 18 months to find friends who accepted her as American. She was very happy to come back home, poor dear.

True story - foreign-born Indian American friends of mine have been stationed in East Asia and been treated like any other American.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-12-07 9:59:04 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-12-07 9:59:04 PM|| Front Page Top

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