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2007-12-05 Home Front: Culture Wars
Enviro group calls on Muslims to stop flying to Mecca for Hajj
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Posted by Seafarious 2007-12-05 00:42|| || Front Page|| [5 views ]  Top

#1 If an estimated one million Israeli households light for eight days, they said, it would do significant damage to the atmosphere.

Oh, brother. That would be like, what, about 10 seconds worth of output from Algore's private jet? These "founders" must have some really serious mental health "issues."
Posted by PBMcL 2007-12-05 01:16||   2007-12-05 01:16|| Front Page Top

#2 Human beings are contaminants to the pristine environment of Earth. We must rid the world of this scourge to restore Gaia to her natural state of perfection.

We should all do the heroic thing like this woman.
Posted by Snarong B. Hayes8239 2007-12-05 05:02||   2007-12-05 05:02|| Front Page Top

#3 THeir pot-smoking produces a lot more CO2 than Hanouka candles.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2007-12-05 06:51||   2007-12-05 06:51|| Front Page Top

#4 They're fussing about Hanukkah (Channukka, Hanouka (a charming French spelling)) candles? The ones that are the size of a largish birthday candle, and burn only a little longer? The "Total Quality" problem solving process used by the Japanese and later American companies, taught by Peter Drucker, recommended first fixing the few things that caused the most problems. It seems to me that getting China off coal cakes as a heating/cooking fuel, stopping slash & burn agriculture in Latin America and the wooded parts of Asia, or requiring environmental committee meetings to take place by video conference instead of flying to Bali, would significantly reduce pollution and CO2 production, not to mention wasted time. Addressing wasteful water practices would be another big item.

Reducing the lighting of one birthday-type candle out of

(9!-1 candles)*(18 million Jews world wide)/(4 Jews per household, perhaps a quarter of whom don't light anything, and another quarter use oil lamps in the pre-candle tradition)

seems like misplaced enthusiasm to me. But then, I'm no environmental expert.
Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife  2007-12-05 07:50||   2007-12-05 07:50|| Front Page Top

#5 In a campaign that has spread like wildfire across the Internet, a group of Israeli environmentalists is encouraging Jews around the world to light at least one less candle this Hanukka to help the environment.

Somebody's parents threw out the baby and raised the bath water.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2007-12-05 07:56||   2007-12-05 07:56|| Front Page Top

#6 Don't sell yourself short TW. From your post it sounds like you're a better environmental expert than the idiots behind this campaign. Typical leftist BS: make a silly gesture, claim success, and ignore the real problem.
Posted by Spot">Spot  2007-12-05 08:12||   2007-12-05 08:12|| Front Page Top

#7 I've written to PETA before about the mass slaughter of animals during the Mecca run. Needless to say they didn't give a shit about the hundreds of thousands of goat, camels etc. killed.

Asking the Jews to light one less candle is purely an act of anti-western mindless hate. One telling clue is Tom Wegner's political affiliation.

A junk solution for junked debunked wankers.

Spit.
Posted by Icerigger">Icerigger  2007-12-05 08:17||   2007-12-05 08:17|| Front Page Top

#8 TW,

That's the wrong formula. 9! = 1 × 2 × 3 … × 8 × 9 = 362,880. A Jewish household lights 2 +3 + 4 +…+8+9 = (9 × 10)/2 − 1 = 44 candles during the holiday.
Posted by Eric Jablow">Eric Jablow  2007-12-05 08:58||   2007-12-05 08:58|| Front Page Top

#9 Maybe somebody should jump on a Gulfstream and fly down to Bali and spread the word about this at the Global Warming Conference. Maybe two Gulfstreams, in case one crashes...
Posted by tu3031 2007-12-05 10:00||   2007-12-05 10:00|| Front Page Top

#10 Big uncle Ted is coming over for the holiday. Better get a candle for the bathroom. Got him trained to light a candle in there after he gets through with business. This one will be water mellon scented.
Posted by Victor Emmanuel Whusoque4891 2007-12-05 10:20||   2007-12-05 10:20|| Front Page Top

#11 Some excellent comments on this at the Volokh Conspiracy blog:

As Joan Rivers would say, "Oy, don't get me started here."

Are Jews who light Hannuka candles contributing disproportionately to global warming when compared to other religious groups, e.g., Catholics lighting votive candles in churches around the world?

. . .

I think the minimizing benefits and maximizing costs is sort of the point here: environmentalism is trying, quite explicitly, to be a substitute for religion, and this is the sort of shared, viral, and possibly ostentatious sacrifice that characterizes many religious observances. (Says the strict Catholic, who most definately does not care what the carbon footprint of a votive candle is.)

. . .

I think the proper response is to calculate what the carbon savings would be from all of those non-religious environmentalists refraining from driving or using electricity in their homes for one day a week all year (i.e., the Sabbath). I strongly suspect that the savings would be much much more than any putative savings from not lighting candles on Hanuka.

. . .

I don't know about the environmentalism as a religion issue or the anti-semitic angle (I mean, it does seem a little selective, but oh well) but to me this strikes me as the kind of intentional publicity seeking we see from this element of the left. How many times, for instance, has PETA stirred up a stupid controversy because of a stupid suggestion they have made? Like drink beer not milk, for instance...

So they try to tell people to ignore what their faith says because it is not eco-friendly. Its silly and bound to invite controversy, and thus you have to think that the controversy is the point.

But it is inherently suspicious when people are selective like this, when it happens against jews. There is a history. Indeed, clearly anti-semitic selectivity is also a present reality, though that might not be at work here. But still you have to think we could save alot more carbon if Al Gore took one less private jet flight, if John Edwards owned one less SUV, or the potheads (who are so often environmentalists) smoked one less joint.

. . .

Why do I think that environmentalism is attempting to substitute itself for religion? Glad you asked. The Global Warming alarmists have appropriated the myth of the fall from grace of Adam and Eve. If only we could have left well enough alone and not started burning coal, we would not be cast from Camelot like Adam and Eve were from the Garden and the loving arms of God.

You remember Camelot? Were "Winter exits March the 2nd on the dot."

It is also reminiscent of destroying the Golden Calf to regain God's love. If we just renounce Capitalism and consumerism, Gaia will love us again.

All of this would just be coincidence if the evidence for AGW were stronger.
Posted by Mike 2007-12-05 10:31||   2007-12-05 10:31|| Front Page Top

#12 Fatwah for their death in 5...4...3...
Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader  2007-12-05 11:41||   2007-12-05 11:41|| Front Page Top

#13 And lo! The oil that was to burn for eight days was exhausted after one, thus saving the environment. Gore be praised!

Look, can't Jews just get a group carbon offset from the Orthodox, who don't use electricity (or cars) on the Sabbath?
Posted by Angie Schultz 2007-12-05 13:38||   2007-12-05 13:38|| Front Page Top

#14 That's the wrong formula. 9! = 1 × 2 × 3 … × 8 × 9 = 362,880. A Jewish household lights 2 +3 + 4 +…+8+9 = (9 × 10)/2 − 1 = 44 candles during the holiday.

You're right, Eric, darn it! But it was exciting for a moment, using a factorial -- it's been so long. :-( You see, I'm sure, why I never went on to get that math degree. Oh, well. I'm so glad you caught it so quickly -- it would have been truly mortifying if anybody'd quoted that egregious error.

Spot, given the caliber of so many who call themselves experts in the environmental field, I'd much rather think of myself as an enthusiastic amateur, even a dilettante (which is actually the truest description of my approach to a great many things). ;-)

What a clever idea, Angie!
Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife  2007-12-05 15:19||   2007-12-05 15:19|| Front Page Top

#15 There's something more important at stake here than burning candles: the reason WHY candles are being burned. Up until now, that reason was considered more important than the time and money to buy the candles, set up, light, and put out the candles. It's part of a religious observance, and deliberately has a small footprint so that even the poor can be able to celebrate.

If a religion tells you to do something, and someone else tells you not to do it, and you not do it, then that someone else is more important than religion. If God tells you to do something, and someone else tells you not to do it, or doing it sacrifices something else, and you don't do it, then that someone or something is more important than God.

It is a matter of priorities, and it is clear that, to these environmentalists, their cause is more important than the Jewish Religion. There is no way around it: it is simple logic and the way power and authority relationships work.

It does not matter how small the request is: I doubt that a Jew would obtain an indulgence for pleading with God to spare him the charge of idolatry because the idol he worshipped was micromechanically carved from of a single grain of rice. They need you to give in once, in principle, just as the soviet dissidents learned that the soviet torturers needed them to utter one lie to start the erosion process.

If you believe your cause is more important than religion, you cause has just become a religion.
Posted by Ptah">Ptah  2007-12-05 15:30|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]  2007-12-05 15:30|| Front Page Top

#16 I've got a much better way to reduce global warming. We'll set up a big mulcher and tell all the enviro's to queue up to save the planet. Then it's 1, 2, 3, HEAVE and into the mulcher they go.

Just think of how well the plants will grow with all this nutrient rich fertilizer.
Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick  2007-12-05 15:32||   2007-12-05 15:32|| Front Page Top

#17 Hmm, well...if you burn soy candles, with lead free wicks, made by some oppressed non-white minority group doing their damnedest to preserve their ancient traditions in the face of encroaching globalization, scented with sustainably-forested materials according to fair trade practices....will they finally quit their bitching???
Posted by Swamp Blondie 2007-12-05 16:18||   2007-12-05 16:18|| Front Page Top

#18 The enviros could have said, "please don't drive on the sabbath or drive minimally" - that would arguably have saved more energy.

I think the candle suggestion was simply their way of being in-your-face.

Notwithstanding this, the actual halacha (per both the Shulhan Orech and the Rama) is satisfied, although minimally, if only one candle is lit each night in each household.
Posted by mhw">mhw  2007-12-05 17:10|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]  2007-12-05 17:10|| Front Page Top

#19 It's only a matter of time before the Gaia worshipers reintroduce the concept of shutting everything down one day a week [other then essential emergency medical and security services]. Watch as the enviros reintroduce Blue Laws create laws to enforce it. They can even call it a day of Sabbath Reflection.
Posted by Procopius2k 2007-12-05 18:02||   2007-12-05 18:02|| Front Page Top

#20 The "green" religion is idolatry. They worship rocks, trees, the moon, the sun, the stars. Been around thousands of years. And yes, they are going to tell all the religions, their god, Mother Earth, trumps God.

Well, I reckon, if God wants to warm up the earth, it might be to get the many, many idol worshippers used to something a bit hotter that is waiting for their butts.
Posted by Victor Emmanuel Whusoque4891 2007-12-05 18:48||   2007-12-05 18:48|| Front Page Top

#21 I would say that we grab Rosie, do a thorough liposuction (using hand-powered pumps), render the harvested fat and make candles. Carbon neutral scheme. And if Rosie continues her rotund eating habits, we will harvest more in a couple of years. What say you one? What say you all?
Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul  2007-12-05 22:07||   2007-12-05 22:07|| Front Page Top

23:56 JosephMendiola
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22:21 Old Patriot
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20:37 Eric Jablow









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