Article

2004-12-19 Africa: North

Attacking Iran would be 'catastrophic': Mubarak

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Posted by Fred 2004-12-19 12:56:19 AM|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 ...for Iran.

Posted by Capt America 2004-12-19 1:00:41 AM|| 2004-12-19 1:00:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 And I say that if the US does not attack
Iran, that would be a mistake of catastrophic proportions.

Posted by Elder of Zion 2004-12-19 1:19:23 AM|| 2004-12-19 1:19:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Iran itself is a mistake of catastrophic proportions. Attacking it could not possibly worsen anything.

Posted by Zenster 2004-12-19 1:58:08 AM|| 2004-12-19 1:58:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Der Spiegl? Enough said. One of the main hate America first propaganda organs of our former friend Germany. Not saying we don't have German citizens who are our friends we certainly do. However many who lead the government view Bader-Meinhof as heros and the iron curtain and cold war the fault of the US people. The chants that have been going on for over 25 years of "Death to America" do not translate from Farsi to German. The German government wants Iran as their ally apperently and not the US. Anything that Der Spiegel publishes is to be taken with a grain of salt. But the average German gets whatever it says regurgitated as the message passed along in the rest of the popular press.

If the Islamic world and Mubarak want and to see Iran left alone they better convince them to get smart. At some point we will take the MMs out. It's a matter of self preservation. Mubarak needs to watch his own ass as I am sure there are Saudi and Iranian agents and surrogates in his own counrty plotting against him and his ruling clique.

The US has no more allies. We are fools to think the anglosphere well stick together. Look at the popular press in the anglosphere and tell me we are united? Where is the Anglosphere on Iran?

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-12-19 2:01:23 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-12-19 2:01:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Dear old Husni, so predictable

Posted by gromgorru 2004-12-19 8:13:04 AM|| 2004-12-19 8:13:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 âIf the United States were really to attack Iran, that would be a mistake of catastrophic proportions,â

The attack will create 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000 Bin Laden's.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-19 9:39:08 AM|| 2004-12-19 9:39:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 I think the big argument now is, "attack" Iran or "invade" Iran. Many of the same arguments apply as to Iraq prior to Gulf War I.

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-12-19 9:42:47 AM|| 2004-12-19 9:42:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Okay, that was really hurtful formatting-wise, Poison Reverse.

Fred, to prevent this from happening again, may I suggest automatically breaking up words that contain more than 50 or so characters? It shouldn't be too difficult to code.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-19 9:44:48 AM|| 2004-12-19 9:44:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 PR was just expressing himself, unwisely it turns out.

Posted by Shipman 2004-12-19 9:56:22 AM|| 2004-12-19 9:56:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Aris,

The last thing I need is some eeeeeeEUCrat, anti-American, sissy boy telling people how to run their web servers. Why don't you go and do what you Eurosissies do best, hand out free needles in Amsterdam, become anti-Christian, and make friends with jihadi's? I thought Frank, .com, Old Spook, lex and I tore you a new one yesterday? Go back to your EUroHole. You are nothing but a liberal PIG.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-19 10:09:16 AM|| 2004-12-19 10:09:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Thank you very much, Poison Reverse. It's as always an honour to be insulted by the fascists for being too much of a liberty-lover.

A person like you *would* treat the word "liberal" as if it was an insult.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-19 10:22:08 AM|| 2004-12-19 10:22:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 And as a sidenote, the true miracle of Christmas is that I have NOT become anti-American, even after meeting so many people like you. Cheers.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-19 10:29:06 AM|| 2004-12-19 10:29:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Guess you haven't noticed,Aris,but around these parts Liberial is an insult.

Posted by raptor 2004-12-19 10:35:27 AM|| 2004-12-19 10:35:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 raptor> "Guess you haven't noticed,Aris,but around these parts Liberial is an insult."

I doubt that liberalhawk sees it as such. So, nope, it's only *some* people around these parts that treat "liberal" as an insult. And I have contempt for all of them. So there you go.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-19 10:38:42 AM|| 2004-12-19 10:38:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 I can't think of a single element at Rantburg, outside of Aris and LiberalHawk, who would consider the moniker 'liberal' to be anything other than fighting words.

Posted by badanov 2004-12-19 10:40:50 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2004-12-19 10:40:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 "Iran insists that it is only pursuing a peaceful nuclear energy programme."

No, No, surely Not!!! I promise by the Great Allllan, that we are not producing the dangerous Plutonium bombs, but reserve the right to produce the very very very innocent and harmless Uranium bombs.
It is long over due, for the destruction of these nuclear factories that threaten Israel. There is no reason to invade. All we need to do is attack. The Iranian public will take care of the rest. Unlike the ungrateful Iraqi public.

"Mubarak also asked the US to push forward the stalled Israeli-Palestinian peace process."

I wish these Mooselimbs would take some responsibility for themselves and stop tying global warming to constipation, on the Paleo-Israeli roadkill process.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-19 10:49:59 AM|| 2004-12-19 10:49:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Thank you Jimmy Carter for the gift that keeps on giving!

Posted by Glereper Craviter7929 2004-12-19 10:51:14 AM|| 2004-12-19 10:51:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Aris,

Liberalhawk is NOT as liberal as you think he is. Hence, the word "hawk". May I suggest www.dictionary.com. Good try though, to ~~drag~~ bring in LH to take your side. But, not good enough.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-19 10:55:50 AM|| 2004-12-19 10:55:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Aris, Liberalhawk is NOT as liberal as you think he is. Hence, the word "hawk".

So you now think you know how much of a liberal I believe Liberalhawk to be?

Yeah, hence the word "hawk". Which could just as easily apply to me, since I've also been hawkish in relation to Afghanistan, Syria, Iran and Sudan. But whatever, clueless boy. Keep on with your prejudices, false assumptions and whatever else pleases you.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-19 11:11:21 AM|| 2004-12-19 11:11:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Thinking in the middle, it will be safer for the West in the long term, but there's going to be a hell of a fight. Iran is a large country, very rocky, unlike flat and smooth Iraq. Iran has alot of money too.

Tehran is one of the most densely populated cities in the world, has a fresh functional army as well many more suicidal volunteers. They also heavily support some Palestinian groups, so expect something from them as well.

I really hate Iranian leadership and they shouldn't have a nukes, period, but I think we need to be preparing very well because this is the mother wasp nest.

Here's an interesting but mythic story, a shite kuwati female friend told me that one of the shite prophecies from long ago, there is to be a evil leader who hides behind govt leaders, who through others, preeched hate and falsehoods and war, but never seen for years and hiding in Afghanistan or Iranian caves for years. He was the real leader while others were just his public puppets, he was barely seen but ruled a nation of a false religion. Anyway he's supposed to be the 3rd anti-christ. Interesting Muslims have a story about an anti-christ. Not sure if he's Mullah Omar, or someone not known. Anyway it goes on to say the new war with the west last about 22 years but they will be defeated. Grain of Salt.

Posted by Clavinter Angealing2544 2004-12-19 11:18:16 AM|| 2004-12-19 11:18:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 CA,

You are right, it will be a HELL of a fight. But, it will be a fight the U.S. Military and Israel can win. Everyone knows that Iran is the kingpin of terrorism for over 30 years now. There is no choice, we have to take away their threat. We cannot allow a nuclear or terrorist Iran. As GW have already stated, we have to take the fight to them. I don't want to walk on pins and needles for years to come. That does NOT mean, we have to attack every rogue country that possess nuclear weapons. Just the ones that immediately danger our and Israel's sovereignty.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-19 11:39:58 AM|| 2004-12-19 11:39:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Just the ones that immediately danger our and Israel's sovereignty
Since when did Israel become our 51st state? If we begin fighting pre-emptive wars against every country that hates Israel, we can be fighting wars on Israel's behalf from now until eternity.

Posted by joeblow 2004-12-19 12:09:52 PM|| 2004-12-19 12:09:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 When the Islamic regime of Iran falls apart, then the rest of it collapses in on itself. Iran is the lynchpin. Remove it, and the whole rotten terrorist structure comes tumbling down.

Then, Israel and that whole region can get down to talks to settling these disputes with those willing to abide by their agreements and statements.

Iran is the key. The mullahs must go.

Posted by badanov 2004-12-19 12:20:21 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2004-12-19 12:20:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Gents, I do not think liberal is necessarily an insult. On other sites I have referred to myself as a liberal hawk and as a Scoop Jackson Democrat, deeply disappointed -- nay angered -- in the direction the party has chosen, especially after 9/11. But across the pond, as I understand it, liberal is used as Americans use libertarian. This in distinct contrast to the socialists/communists who want a strong government intruding on the lives of the citizenry as it redistributes the nation's wealth to what were once known as the lower classes, and the conservatives who want to return to rule by King & Aristocracy, and a strong government intruding on the lives of the citizenry as it redistributes the nation's wealth from what they call the lower classes, those who do the actual work. Meditate a moment on the difficulties caused by the British vs. American meanings of the term "fag" (cigarette vs. male homosexual), as a similar example. Not correct vs. incorrect, but two peoples divided by a common language.

Aris has in the past expressed admiration and appreciation for America, and supported her actions prosecuting the War on Terror. But please don't forget the many benefits Greece has received from joining the EU, beyond large inflows of money.

Left to its own devices, Greece would no doubt be an almost lawless battleground fought over by Communists and Conservatives both overtly and covertly. Greek income in most part comes from tourism (which wouldn't exist under such circumstances), and traditional export crops such as olives and olive oil. Without the imposed requirements for membership in the EU, which mandate rule by a democratically elected government, rule of law not strongman (however minutia-obsessed those laws might be), Greece might well look a lot like the current former Yugoslavia...or worse. From the Greek perspective, the EU has indeed been an instrument for good.

This contrasts with the harm EU meddling and corruption does to a historical and strong democracy like Great Britain, or how intolerable EU rule by elite would be here in America. So please, listen to Aris as Rantburg's correspondant from the heart of the region that needs what the EU provides, and don't take it all so personally. Not everyone fits the American, or the Rantburg mold, but that doesn't mean a priori that these others are evil intentioned monsters intent on dragging America into the abyss.

And quit calling people Nazis and such. As the child of Holocaust survivors, I find such language completely unacceptable for someone like Aris. There are others to whom such language does apply, but the Moderators ban them pretty quickly after a short stretch in the purgatory of the Sink Trap.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-12-19 12:25:08 PM|| 2004-12-19 12:25:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Okay, trailing wife. I'm in.

Shutting up :o)

Posted by badanov 2004-12-19 12:41:31 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2004-12-19 12:41:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Re liberal, tw, It's not just a question of semantics. At least in the UK, the word has been going through something of a transition phase and at present you can hear it used in many different ways. Increasingly you will hear it used by those who to Americans would be liberals to describe themselves as such - effectively hijacking the word which they do not necessarily wish to apply to traditionally liberal opinions. That's one reason why we also have libertarians (you'll never hear the Samizdatistas referring to themselves as liberals). Things may be different in Greece.

I wonder whether Aris will find your description of Greeks a little condescending. Left to its own devices, Greece would no doubt be an almost lawless battleground... Aris certainly believes that of other countries in Eastern Europe, but I don't know that he thinks Greece is incapable of civilising itself.

Posted by Bulldog 2004-12-19 12:57:04 PM|| 2004-12-19 12:57:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 obviously calling Aris a EU Nazi yesterday was wrong, and I admitted as such. It was a slip, albeit an unacceptable one. I'll stick to EUstatist future bureaucrat - possibly Minister of Silly Walks

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-19 1:23:35 PM|| 2004-12-19 1:23:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#28
The last thing I need is some eeeeeeEUCrat, anti-American, sissy boy telling people how to run their web servers. Why don't you go and do what you Eurosissies do best, hand out free needles in Amsterdam, become anti-Christian, and make friends with jihadi's? I thought Frank, .com, Old Spook, lex and I tore you a new one yesterday? Go back to your EUroHole. You are nothing but a liberal PIG.

There was a time that I remember when Poison Reverse had not yet begun to "participate" in this website. I miss that time. He is dragging it down all by himself.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-12-19 2:01:05 PM|| 2004-12-19 2:01:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Me too.

Posted by Kojo 2004-12-19 2:10:55 PM|| 2004-12-19 2:10:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Kojo, don't stand so close to me.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-12-19 2:16:54 PM|| 2004-12-19 2:16:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Left to its own devices, Greece would no doubt be an almost lawless battleground... Aris certainly believes that of other countries in Eastern Europe, but I don't know that he thinks Greece is incapable of civilising itself.

I'm sure that eventually we would be capable of civilising ourselves. We did civilise ourselves well enough to be capable of EU membership after all.

I also know however that the EU has quite likely been the main reason that we didn't fall even closer in line in the early 90s with a barbarous Serbophile axis of Orthodox countries, reaching down from Russia. I'm sure that EU is probably one of the reasons of why the bullying embargo against FYRO Macedonia lasted only a little while.

I know that the free market in Greece would be even less free had it not been for the EU, and were it not for the fact that Greece is forced to allow the free movement of capital and services *because* of the EU.

In short I recognize the EU as a positive force.

As for "liberal" I'm a liberal according to both the European and the American senses. Which makes me socially left-wing in both continents (gay rights, separation of church-state, so forth), but fiscally right-wing in Europe and fiscally left-wing in America.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-19 2:30:42 PM|| 2004-12-19 2:30:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 hmmmmmm...... ranbutan?

Posted by Shipman 2004-12-19 2:48:44 PM|| 2004-12-19 2:48:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 why doesnt someone nuke jew york instead?

Posted by Do you dig Aushwitz 2004-12-19 2:49:50 PM|| 2004-12-19 2:49:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 cute

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-19 2:56:24 PM|| 2004-12-19 2:56:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Mike,

Just great, another left-winger trolling in the middle of the thread, blathering to oblivion. It's so nice of you to take time away from your ~~super diplodick~~ anti-American role in the U.N./Foggy Bottom, to spew your meaningless chatter. With the threads that I have been reading with your left-wing and pro-U.N. opinion, it seems that you're the one that's dragging it down. Do us all a favor and go sniff the behind's of ABCNBCCBSCNNMSNBCCNBCNEWYORKTIMES'S of the world, where you belong and take that Grecian formula (Aris) with you.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-19 3:11:45 PM|| 2004-12-19 3:11:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 My first thought exactly, #1 Capt. America.

Great minds....

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2004-12-19 3:15:59 PM|| 2004-12-19 3:15:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 PR,
locking Zionist Death Ray on Troll in Isle 9...
Fumigation may also be in order.

Posted by Elder of Zion 2004-12-19 3:17:13 PM|| 2004-12-19 3:17:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 "Liberal" does have a different meaning in Germany as well, mostly describing the politics of the relatively small FDP (free democrats), a party that cherishes market economy with as little state interference as possible, less taxes, no subsidies, but at the same time also calls for less state interference in the private affairs of citizens as well.

In the U.S., at least for the Republican side, "liberal" has become sort of a bad word for leftist and all kinds of moonbat "do-gooders" without a clue.

In the UK, liberal seems to have another meaning as well.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-19 3:37:38 PM|| 2004-12-19 3:37:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Preach it, trailing wife!

Posted by James 2004-12-19 4:11:13 PM|| [http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com] 2004-12-19 4:11:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Okay, PoisonReverse, as a moderator I've been really tolerant.

Fair warning: you're getting close to the line. Really close. We at Rantburg are really snarky, but only to those who deserve it. Aris is not the enemy.

I have a Zionist death ray, and I'm not afraid to use it.

Posted by Steve White 2004-12-19 6:32:11 PM|| 2004-12-19 6:32:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 A minor point for TGA. The modern "liberals" arrogated the term to themselves in the 60s. Left-wing extremist Michael Harrington openly said that he was calling himself and his kind "liberals" so that true liberals would be called "centrist" or "conservative," thus dragging the "center" of political discourse to the left. It worked, too.

The kind of people who used to be called "liberals" before 1968 are now called...

neo-cons.

Posted by jackal 2004-12-19 6:32:11 PM|| [http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2004-12-19 6:32:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 If the only thing we can ever remember NAZIs for is killing Jews, then we have COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT!
NAZIs took many things to extremes, including totalitarian fascism, militant socialism, a perverse (and perhaps uniquely German) bent toward ethnocentrism, and they nearly perfected xenophobia.
I'm sorry I don't agree. If we limit our comparison with Nazism to only groups that attempt another holocaust, we're losing the greater part of what was learned through the trials of WWII.
There are too many groups and movements that bear close resemblance to Nazism today---if we avoid identifying the comparison we'll just end up looking so damned surprised again when the bastards are repeated in history.

Posted by Asedwich 2004-12-19 7:02:25 PM|| 2004-12-19 7:02:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Another thread totally hijacked by Aris and PR.
Thank you very much, for burying my comment in the noise.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-12-19 7:06:43 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-12-19 7:06:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#44
Here's Aris's comment that hijacked another thread:

Fred, to prevent this from happening again, may I suggest automatically breaking up words that contain more than 50 or so characters? It shouldn't be too difficult to code.

That was followed by this from Poison Reverse:

Aris, The last thing I need is some eeeeeeEUCrat, anti-American, sissy boy telling people how to run their web servers. Why don't you go and do what you Eurosissies do best, hand out free needles in Amsterdam, become anti-Christian, and make friends with jihadi's? I thought Frank, .com, Old Spook, lex and I tore you a new one yesterday? Go back to your EUroHole. You are nothing but a liberal PIG.

That led to everything else. I would not blame Aris for this hijacking.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-12-19 8:20:46 PM|| 2004-12-19 8:20:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 hijacking? I ee a controlled landing, no problem

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-19 8:24:33 PM|| 2004-12-19 8:24:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 how about "see"? PIMF

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-19 8:25:54 PM|| 2004-12-19 8:25:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#47
In #43, Sock Puppet of Doom expressed his dissatisfaction that the thread was hijacked and his comment #4 was buried in the noise.

The original posting is primiarily about Egyptian President Mubarak's opinion about a US attack on Iran.

The interview appeared in an article in Spiegel, a German magazine. The main thrust of SPoD's comment #4 is that he doesn't like Germany. From there, SPoD went on to wonder about where the "Anglosphere" is.

It seems to me that the first person who hijacked the thread was Sock Puppet of Doom himself.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-12-19 9:21:15 PM|| 2004-12-19 9:21:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 Frank,
Thanks.

Mike,
"It seems to me that the first person who hijacked the thread was Sock Puppet of Doom himself.."

Either that's an apology for your previous false accusation or you are flip flopping, like sKerry.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-19 9:55:31 PM|| 2004-12-19 9:55:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 My two cents....

1. Mike S summarized the thread-hijacking thing fairly and accurately in #44.

2. Although I often disagree with Aris, I think his contributions to this forum are consistently intelligent. And because he takes a different tack from most of us on some issues, very welcome.

3. Though I am no longer a standard issue liberal, I do not consider "liberal" a dirty word. I lament the fact that that noble term has been to a large degree hi-jacked by leftists and pacificists in the U.S. But you know what? Even leftists and pacifists have intelligent things to say from time to time, and people who close their minds to them and insist that the rest of us do likewise are.... well, I want to avoid such potentially controversial terms as "proto-fascists". Will the term "jerks" do?

4. And in case anyone might be tempted to misread me on the point, I am not saying that Aris is either a pacifist or a leftist. Based on his contributions to this forum, I see him as guy who leans a bit more to the left than I do on some issues, but whose instincts are basically *liberal* in the good, old-fashioned sense of that term. And he is certainly not a pacifist.

Good night and God bless!

Posted by Wuzzalib 2004-12-19 10:18:10 PM|| 2004-12-19 10:18:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 Mike You better re read what I posted.
It was on topic with an aditional commment.
Yes you and Aris threadjacked this whole thread .

I forgot your opinon is the most important one to be heard here, excuse me.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-12-19 10:44:26 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-12-19 10:44:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#51
The first eight sentences were about your dislike of Germany. The next four sentences were related to the posting. The last three sentences were your wondering about the "Anglosphere".

You introduced the topic of Germany based only on the fact that the interview was published in a German magazine. You would have been quite happy, I think, if other people would have elaborated on your dislike of Germany and if a long thread had ensued on that topic.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-12-19 10:59:08 PM|| 2004-12-19 10:59:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 "It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas......."

Posted by RWV 2004-12-19 11:17:04 PM|| 2004-12-19 11:17:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 Mike can count! Doesn't try to understand anything that disagrees with his self importance but he can count.

Yes you and Aris are thread jackers and you are doing it again. I can'tr see anything they you posted that even in the remotest touches on the topic of the article. I did.

Mike have a nice life. I am sure you will make some nice guy a wonderful wife.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-12-19 11:36:47 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-12-19 11:36:47 PM|| Front Page Top

23:49 Phil Fraering
23:47 Phil Fraering
23:36 Sock Puppet of Doom
23:28 RWV
23:25 RWV
23:17 RWV
22:59 Mike Sylwester
22:47 Mike Sylwester
22:45 Capt America
22:44 Sock Puppet of Doom
22:38 Capt America
22:34 Robert Crawford
22:20 Sock Puppet of Doom
22:18 Wuzzalib
22:17 Bulldog
22:06 Alaska Paul
22:03 Alaska Paul
21:59 Ol_Dirty_American
21:55 Poison Reverse
21:33 2b
21:21 Mike Sylwester
21:13 Mike Sylwester
21:11 gromky
21:06 gromky