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2004-12-13 Home Front: Politix

McCain gives Rumsfeld 'no confidence' vote

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Posted by Frank G 2004-12-13 15:40|| || Front Page|| [11127 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 McCain finally comes in from the cold. Now we know who's been leading the push for Rumsfeld's resignation.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-12-13 3:50:57 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-12-13 3:50:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 I can now say for sure who ISN"T going to get my vote during the primaries.

Posted by Secret Master 2004-12-13 3:56:15 PM|| 2004-12-13 3:56:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 "If Bush is fer it, I'm agin it" - McCain

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-12-13 4:05:45 PM|| 2004-12-13 4:05:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 the ~~Manchurian~~ Egomaniacal Candidate

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-13 4:09:24 PM|| 2004-12-13 4:09:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Well, that settles it, doesn't it? Rummy gets no confidence from Johnny RINO.

Posted by Capt America 2004-12-13 4:15:09 PM|| 2004-12-13 4:15:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 This just in...under continued "no confidence" pressure from Senator McCain, Rummy has sworn off of steriods. McCain to restore confidence at 11:00 pm.

Posted by Capt America 2004-12-13 4:17:18 PM|| 2004-12-13 4:17:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 what an ass!

Posted by legolas 2004-12-13 4:48:56 PM|| 2004-12-13 4:48:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Somebody wanted Rummy's job, huh.

Posted by anonymous snark 2004-12-13 4:51:36 PM|| 2004-12-13 4:51:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Aside from the personality issues, some of which are not uncommon in politics (the ego/attention thing), McCain has actually often shown very limited savvy on military matters. He panicked quickly after the start of the Afghanistan operation. His harping on troop numbers here (and his bizarre suggestion that every relevant linguist, civil affairs, and special forces body hasn't long since been thrown into the Iraq fight) is basically another demonstration of incomprehension -- no matter how popular it has become as a mythological explanation of imperfection, er, I mean "quagmire". (A friend at Army intel agrees that the troop # issue has become the "dog ate my homework" excuse for some Army commanders who've failed to adapt effectively in Iraq)

Just because McCain typically avoids the jaw-dropping schtoopidity of most congressional and media figures on military matters shouldn't obscure just how mediocre his grasp seems to be. A real military hero he is, a military genius he shows no signs of being ....

Posted by Verlaine 2004-12-13 5:07:54 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:07:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 1. McCain is no RINO. His positions on health care, abortion, and a range of other issues put him outside the Dem party.
2. He is NOT stupid. He may have panicked briefly on Afghanistan, but by and large hes been pretty good.
3. Do you really think Iraq has managed optimally? I dont. And yes, I still dont see a clear explanation for why we didnt go in with more troops. You want to blame Turkey? We should have had a contingency plan for that. As far as I can see it was because Rummy decided that changing the way the Pentagon does business was more important than getting the best possible outcome in Iraq. But go ahead with Rummy can do no wrong, if you must.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-12-13 5:25:51 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:25:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Seems to me that Rumsfeld has done a far better job anticipating force requirements in Iraq than McCain did anticipating the effect of his horseshit Campaign Finance "Reform" bill.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-12-13 5:29:35 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:29:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 McCain's not necessarily a RINO, and I agree his judgment's no worse than your average Senator's. But that's the point: he's a mediocrity who's been inflated by the MSM into their favorite Republican Bushwhacker. I don't have anything against him, and there are a few things to like about him, but I don't particularly trust his judgment regarding Rumsfeld. I could be wrong but suspect it's heavily personal, as are most of his complaints with Bush.

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 5:31:26 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:31:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 What Dave said. Campaign Finance Reform is a lasting embarrassment, the most foolish and useless piece of legislation to come from the Hill in many years

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 5:33:07 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:33:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 No, it's not "Rummy can do no wrong", it's "Rummy's the best man for the job".

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-12-13 5:34:40 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:34:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I'm convinced CFR sprang from his moral vanity and his guilt as one of the Keating five - he had to be holier than thou, regardless of whether the law was good for America

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-13 5:35:20 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:35:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Lex i dontt think McCain is a mediocrity, and well, Bushies who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. I mean really.

DaveD - maybe so. Camp Finance reform can always be tweaked again. The opportunity to transform the middle east that Iraq presented, may not come again. The consequences are much greater here.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-12-13 5:36:07 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:36:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Tweaked? And you think Iraq's a screw up?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-13 5:37:08 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:37:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Depends on your definition. I think we will still probably beat the insurgency, ultimately, and i think the Shias and Kurds will make a democracy, of sorts. And it would be disaster to get out now, and its probably still worthwhile that we went in.

But we're sure as hell inhibited in doing anything else anywhere else that requires large numbers of troops. We dont have a model that anyone else in the region is particularly interested in following, in particular Sunni Arabs, who make up most of the region. Maybe we can get things to the point where its OK in 4 or 6 years. But we've wasted a hell of a lot of time - IF we had gone in with sufficient force, we might have been able to head off much of the insurgency - wed certainly have been able to get reconstruction started faster and better - and been able to hold Iraqi elections now in better circumstances. Things could be much better than they are now. That things are not much worse has more to do with the valor and competence of our troops, and the real commitment and courage of ordinary Iraqis, than it does to Rummy.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-12-13 5:44:35 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:44:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 LH, I'll be the first to admit that Rummy's arrogant and that we probably should have had more troops, but you and the MSM hyenas are vastly overestimating the impact that more troops would have had on Iraqi stability. The fact is that most of the military/security difficulties we face now are due not to Rumsfeld's strategic our failures but to his successes, specifically, the unanticipated wwiftness of our overwhelming victory last April over the Iraqi forces that forced the Ba'athist hardliners underground.

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 6:02:58 PM|| 2004-12-13 6:02:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Turkey's action WAS the problem because it delayed the combat in Fallujah by 18 months during which time the terrs made the place a hell hole and centere for metstasizing thier insurrection.

How many troops should have been sent to Iraq when, LH?

It took three years to get elections in Afghanistan, two in Iraq. So Afghanistan must be 50% more screwed up than Iraq?

As to being inhibited from doing anything anywhere else, I agre the Clinton administration reduced the Army by at least 2 divisions too many. I expect that eror to be rectified shortly.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-13 6:13:15 PM|| 2004-12-13 6:13:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 One thing I see, again and again, is that people who think Iraq is going badly for us seem to think that establishing a peaceful democracy there is our **ONLY** objective. It is not: it is a highly desireable outcome, one well worth fighting for; but there are many, many other reasons why we are over there. And chief among those reasons is to obtain something we've never had before, something absolutely indispensable for moving forward with the war on Islamist terrorism: a land base adjacent to Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

A larger list of likely reasons for our going into Iraq is here.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-12-13 6:37:40 PM|| 2004-12-13 6:37:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 1. McCain is no RINO. His positions on health care, abortion, and a range of other issues put him outside the Dem party.

McCain's biggest constituency is McCain. As for him not being a RINO, it was interesting that a few years back, after a recall petition (which he initially dismissed) began gaining traction, he quickly tacked rightward.

McCain ran unopposed in the primary. Frankly, I wish someone had run against him. If the Libertarian candidate hadn't been a Harry Browne clone, I'd have voted for him instead.

Posted by Pappy 2004-12-13 7:10:01 PM|| 2004-12-13 7:10:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 McCain is the poster boy for what defines a RINO. In 2001, the Club for Growth gave him the RINO of the Year award stating:

"Senator McCain wins for voting against final passage of the Bush tax cut and for a key anti-tax cut amendment by Democratic Leader Tom Daschle; for offering his own amendment that would have gutted the Bush tax cut; for teaming up with Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) to push massive new health care regulations; and for becoming the chief Republican Senate sponsor of the bill to make all federal airport screeners federal employees."

It's maneuvering for the 2008 Presidential Run plain and simple.

If the war goes well, he's on record as being strong on defense. If it goes badly, he's on record as having been one of the few Repubs to have criticized the current administration.

Come on folks - it couldn't be any clearer.

When Hillary echos his comments, that will signal the official start of the 2008 campaign.

Posted by Curious1 2004-12-13 8:44:53 PM|| 2004-12-13 8:44:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 IF we had gone in with sufficient force, we might have been able to head off much of the insurgency

You know this, how, exactly? Do you have a palantir that lets you see into alternate realities?

Do you know what other limits on troop availability were?

Do you know what the limits in supplying troops were?

How would more troops have stopped a pre-planned, pre-supplied campaign of terrorism?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-12-13 8:47:25 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-12-13 8:47:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 McCain is probably panicking that Rudy seems already to have the "moderate, independent straight-talker" niche in the next primary sewn up. Unlike Rudy, of course, he has no idea how to discipline and market himself to actually win this primary.

Posted by someone 2004-12-13 9:04:47 PM|| 2004-12-13 9:04:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Mrs D - Amen on #20.

I just have one question: Who's better at his job, McCain or Rummy?

If one thinks the answer is McCain, then the job of a Senator is to be primarily self-serving, self-aggrandizing, and self-promoting - and not much else. *slaps forehead* Duh! No wonder he & Skeery were such good buds! And Skeery & Teddy - bigger Duh! And Harkin! And Feinstein! And Boxer! And Leahy! And Rockefeller! Sheesh! And all this time I was thinking they were supposed to be something special...

Okay, now I get it. McCain's a friggin Senate Star, alright.

Posted by .com 2004-12-13 9:08:17 PM|| 2004-12-13 9:08:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 The criterion for Election to the Senate is that one's shit don't stink. That's why they're all such good buddies.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-13 9:26:47 PM|| 2004-12-13 9:26:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 McCain is rightly honored for something he did/was many years ago, a POW War Hero with dignity and valor. He is not infallible, altruistic, and humble, as he has proved many times since. If he switched places with Zell Miller he be labeled a phony, corrupt, hypocrite. The fact he tweaks his nominal party, to the delight of the MSM, is what makes him a star. What has he done lately? I hear tell he and Kerry sold out possible POW/MIA's in VN. Was that ever looked at, or was it too radioactive? McCain should NEVER be allowed to gain the reigns of power in any governmental position

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-13 9:32:38 PM|| 2004-12-13 9:32:38 PM|| Front Page Top