Article

2005-12-11 Science & Technology

M1 Abrams finally gets its canister round

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-12-11 12:20|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Why tungsten? While heavy and brittle, with a high melting point, it's also expensive, hence the $3,000 price tag. What's wrong with steel? Not as good of a kill range? Lead? Too messy for the gun and too environmentally unfriendly (does that matter to the Army?)?

Will someone explain this to me?

Posted by ArmChair in Sin">ArmChair in Sin 2005-12-11 13:24|| 2005-12-11 13:24|| Front Page Top

#2 Rust?

I suspect these balls are not shot out like a shot gun, but in some sort of jacket that opens upon leaving the barrel to dsiperse the shot in a horizontal rather than a conical pattern. The chemicals in the charge are also probably pretty expensive as they have to have a shelf life of decades. Finally, it's hard to make money on spares and service parts for ammo:-)

Posted by Grearong Ulinegum9149 2005-12-11 13:36|| 2005-12-11 13:36|| Front Page Top

#3 Lead is indeed messy for the gun and environmentally an issue, if only for the millions of rounds of all sorts of ammo expended in training. Congress has mandated significant environmental cleanup / prevention for military training areas.

Steel is okay for ducks and geese, to save the environment, maybe not ideal for military use? Others here would know more than I on that one ...

Posted by lotp 2005-12-11 13:45|| 2005-12-11 13:45|| Front Page Top

#4 Tungsten alloys are known for their impressive hardness. I suspect that would translate into pentrating power where lead would fail, such as concrete block.

If the "horizontal" supposition is correct, then the munition would probably also have an adjustable distance fuse, which would be very expensive. Impressive results, however. With 1100 1cm balls penetrating everything in the blast area, it would be a serious drag to be downrange.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-12-11 16:35|| 2005-12-11 16:35|| Front Page Top

#5 Same reason the military uses tungsten in shotguns. It's heavy, it's /harder/ than lead and it retains more energy at range than lead does.

Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick 2005-12-11 16:59|| 2005-12-11 16:59|| Front Page Top

#6 As a taxpayer, I'm good with more expensive munitions and fewer jihadis. $3K a piece seems like great value for the outcome and the fact it allows our guys to deal death from a distance.

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2005-12-11 18:28|| 2005-12-11 18:28|| Front Page Top

#7 No problem with bang for the buck on this end. Rust isn't a problem when in a canister (a little oil goes a long way), and lead is very toxic in quantity. Steel doesn't seem that bad for the price, though. I understand the power of tungsten when propelled from a cannon, but that encompasses anything that's heavy and not soft (no lead).

C'mon, let's here from some material science/ordinance geeks...I'm not satisfied. Plus, I don't see anything about tungsten alloys, just tungsten. Then again, this isn't my field; I'm a physical anthropologist turned bartender, and my roommate is a tenured physical chemist at a UC. We'll eventually figure this out or find someone on campus who can really put down some knowledge, but we know someone out there has the quick answer (plus, I hate campus-- thus, my bartending); otherwise, my first instinct is follow the money...

Posted by ArmChair in Sin">ArmChair in Sin 2005-12-11 19:53|| 2005-12-11 19:53|| Front Page Top

#8 You ARE aware that tungsten has replaced lead in other US army ammo, right? A while ago???

Posted by lotp 2005-12-11 20:03|| 2005-12-11 20:03|| Front Page Top

#9 It's called canister because the 1100 tungsten balls are held in a canister until the round clears the barrel. It was very dealy when used during the Civil War. The Abrams can fire it because the Abrams has a 120mm smoothbore cannon, therefore the round doesn't rotate. It does indeed act like a big shotgun.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2005-12-11 20:11|| 2005-12-11 20:11|| Front Page Top

#10 DAMNIT! Three times now I've sent some nice economic, supply availability, and price links for tungsten v. steel. Every time I've ended up at roadsideamerica.com. Is this a hint? SCREW IT!!!!

(Tungsten makes sense, and I'd just like to pass on the info-- unless you're lotp and already know...;)).

Posted by ArmChair in Sin">ArmChair in Sin 2005-12-11 21:25|| 2005-12-11 21:25|| Front Page Top

#11 Sounds like your cookie is messed up. That's odd, though, since you could post that last comment. Try putting a link or two in a comment here and let's see if that works.

Posted by lotp 2005-12-11 22:31|| 2005-12-11 22:31|| Front Page Top

00:03 trailing wife
23:45 2b
23:39 Doitnow
23:36 C-Low
23:29 Frank G
23:27 .com
23:26 Rory B. Bellows
23:23 trailing wife
23:18 Oldspook
23:16 trailing wife
23:10 Frank G
23:09 Frank G
23:07 Oldspook
23:05 3dc
23:04 Frank G
22:46 Rory B. Bellows
22:42 Mahou Sensei Negi-bozu
22:39 3dc
22:39 Ember
22:38 Red Dog
22:37 Sgt. Mom
22:31 lotp
22:26 lotp
22:22 Glenmore