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2009-12-06 Afghanistan

Most French against troop surge in Afghanistan

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Posted by Fred 2009-12-06 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views ] Top

#1 how long did it take for France too fall to the Nazis?? Or in some cases such as the Vichy just turn sides

Posted by chris">chris 2009-12-06 11:44|| 2009-12-06 11:44|| Front Page Top

#2 how long did it take for France too fall to the Nazis??
45 days and 100 000 dead in the french army. Say, the brit army basically turned tail and ran away, fleeing back to the UK while the french fought the germans. In restrospect, they did the right thing, but how comes they're not stuck with that "surrender" thing? Brits fled, french stood their ground and got their collective ass handed to them.

Or in some cases such as the Vichy just turn sides
Vichy never turned sides, you must be thinking of WWI Italy; it began as a provisional gvt headed by a WWI marechal, a very popular man who had the utmost respect from the WWI vets, put in power by a quasi-unanimously vote by the (leftist) congress, who had authority only over the southern half of France, was seen as the legitimate representative of France by the Allied and actually tried to further french interests against germans bent on "taking revenge" for the Versailles treaty - ignoring that the german plan for post-WWI victory was to break France up and loot it beyond all the supposed "heavy-handedness" of Versailles (I can't remember right now, but I think that in something like two years the Vichy gvt had 300??? german spies court-martialed and executed)... all the while continuing the then one century and a half french civil war, and trying to drive a stake throught he heart of the Republic, with not a lot of success (Vichy was a "soft" dictatorship, but absolutely not a totalitarian nightmare).

In 1942, the free zone was military invaded by the germans, the WWI war hero was sidelined (and for all purpose scapegoated after the war, as the gaullist-communist alliance wanted to legitimate themselves), and the Vichistes invested thremselves actively into collaboration - so, the Etat français never turned sides, quite the contrary, ideology prevailed, and it involved itself deeper and deeper into the german side as it was more and more evident it was losing the war, up to the tragicomedy so brilliantly written by the great french writer Céline, about the absurdity of the french collaborators fleeing in Germany while being still mired in their intercecine rivalries and backbiting and delusions about winning

As a funny note, about 2/3rd of the collaborating establishment was... from the left, soc9alists & disgruntled commies, while historically, the "interior" resistance mvts were started by stay-behinds from the french army led by rightwingers.

Posted by anonymous5089 2009-12-06 13:05|| 2009-12-06 13:05|| Front Page Top

#3 Bambi does not want to win. You can't blame the French, or anyone, for not wanting to die on behalf of a cause the other guy isn't willing to pay the price to win.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2009-12-06 13:10|| 2009-12-06 13:10|| Front Page Top

#4 Btw, GB civilian losses were 70K, from the german bombings. French civilian losses were 270K, a very great chunk of it from ALLIED bombings.
Can you see why the Vichy propaganda about the anglo-americans was so easy.

And for people who think that french are subject to the "France liberated itself alone" delusion, they are DEAD wrong, this was the narrative from the gaullist era, but, nowadays, the narrative is "the french are an abject people of collaborators, Vichy is " The Darkest Hours Of Our History" against which everything is compared (hell, the swiss minaret ban is a throwback to TDHOOH), french are by nature antisemite, backward, reactionary, racists, "frenchy", IE "the moldy France"..., and besides, colonial troops fought on our behalf, in WWI, in WWII, muslim troops liberated France, post-war, they rebuilt France, during the independence wars, they kicked the racist french imperialists out (whose only actions were rapes & tortures),... this is what it's all about, this is the dogma of the national education, the Chattering Class, the Enlightned Elites, the entertainement complex,...

Again, WWII is a trap, it's a neurosis, it's the lock that held the whole 'new left' worldview together.

Posted by anonymous5089 2009-12-06 13:18|| 2009-12-06 13:18|| Front Page Top

#5 amen, Kevin

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2009-12-06 13:53|| 2009-12-06 13:53|| Front Page Top

#6 You have it right, a5089.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2009-12-06 17:51|| 2009-12-06 17:51|| Front Page Top

#7 I'd like to ditto(x6) what DB said

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2009-12-06 18:04|| 2009-12-06 18:04|| Front Page Top

#8 You have it right, a5089.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2009-12-06 18:06|| 2009-12-06 18:06|| Front Page Top

#9 a5089 has it right.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2009-12-06 18:09|| 2009-12-06 18:09|| Front Page Top

#10 At Deacon's request I swept up his enthusiastic extras. ;-)

Posted by lotp 2009-12-06 18:41|| 2009-12-06 18:41|| Front Page Top

#11 There is an anecdote from D-Day that one house in Caen had a sign up that said, "Bomb us, there are Germans here". Unfortunately, most Americans get their impression of the French from Paris. There are some tremendous things to see in Paris, but I wouldn't want to spend as much time as it would take to see them in the city. The people in the countryside have the same feeling about Paris as I do, which places them highly in my esteem.

"President" O'Bumble has destroyed the cohesion and partnership between the US and NATO that was needed to succeed in Afghanistan. He's now beginning to reap the "rewards" of his behavior.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2009-12-06 18:46|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2009-12-06 18:46|| Front Page Top

#12 OP, come on. W destroyed all our alliances with his cowboy go-it-alone unilateralism. That is why we are the only country fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. O singlehandedly restored our alliances, made friends with our enemies, apologized for all our wrong doing, and now everyone in the world loves us. Right?
/sarcasm

Posted by Rambler in Virginia">Rambler in Virginia 2009-12-06 19:30|| 2009-12-06 19:30|| Front Page Top

#13 Sarc off/
If you a Pol, of any kind, WP and any kind of outlawed/prohibited anything can get you.

Posted by Rhodesiafever 2009-12-06 19:46|| 2009-12-06 19:46|| Front Page Top

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