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2003-11-07 Africa: North

"Egypt the Motherland": give up Arabization

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Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-11-07 00:01|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 If the Egyptians aren't Arabs, then neither are the Syrians, or the Iraqis, or the Moroccans. In fact there wouldn't be any Arabs outside of Arabia.
Hmm, I like the sound of this, although there are plenty of Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Indonesians that would happily Arabize themselves.

Posted by Paul Moloney 2003-11-7 12:13:47 AM|| 2003-11-7 12:13:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 If this great traction then it is great news: people who consider themselves as Egyptians first will sooner or later conclude that they owe nothing to Arabians (Islamic teaching is that Egypt was in darkness and was civilized by Islam), that they have been cheated during all their history (no examples for Egypt but Spain was conquered by an Army who was 98% Berber, however it was ruled by Arabs, all the Berber got was to have to mount guard by minus 15 C in Castilia) and see Islam as a tool of subjugation to the Arabians. I expect Saudis to fund movements fighting these guys just as they fund the anti-Berbers in Algeria.

Posted by JFM 2003-11-7 1:36:59 AM|| 2003-11-7 1:36:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Another blogger linked to an article by 4 Egyptian (Islamic?) historians earlier this year that they really didn't think Mohammed's 12-night journey took him to Israel, but Medina.

It was published in a prominent Egyptian paper and the blogger supposed that since the government allowed it, it was kind of like tossing over the Palis claim to fame, since the ME looks up to Egypt.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-11-7 1:42:38 AM|| 2003-11-7 1:42:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 If the Egyptians aren't Arabs, then neither are the Syrians, or the Iraqis, or the Moroccans.

Ethnic identity is a somewhat more fluid concept than that. Right now, I'd say that IMO Egyptians are pretty indistinguishable culturally from other Arabs... atleast in my eyes. But, hey, if they want to change that, reviving their old identity, it may soon be that they will no longer be such. It's not so much what they "are", but what they'll turn themselves into.

And nations have changed their ethnic groupings before -- Bulgarians were originally a Mongolic tribe; they *became* Slavs... And ofcourse Egyptians were once a "race" apart and they then became Arabs; I do wish them luck if they want to change themselves back.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-11-7 6:05:18 AM|| 2003-11-7 6:05:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 i think aris is closer on this than Paul - while of course Arab by definition means arabic speaker (well except for Arabic speaking Jews?), not inhabitant of Arabia, my impression is that the arab states differ considerably in how much they value mainly the Arab identity, and how much they assert a distinctive national identity. IIUC Egypt, has the strongest non-Arab identity of any major arab state. Nasser emphasized the arab identity cause he wanted to LEAD the arab world. Sadat emphasized the Egyptian identity. Mubarak, as in so many things, went partway back from Sadats position.

Ive also heard that Iraq is perhaps second to Egypt in having national identity apart from being Arab, just as in the case of Egypt, have a pre-Islamic (and thus pre_arab) civ. In the case of Iraq this is magnified by several decaded of suffering under a militantly Arab nationalist regime, as well as popular hostility to Arab neighbors that supported that regime.

I think right now Iraq, not Egypt is the best candidate in the arab world for affirming a non-Arab identity. Right now Iraqi nationalism is NOT our enemy - its our natural ally against residual Baathist arab nationalism, and Islamism

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-11-7 9:53:50 AM|| 2003-11-7 9:53:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Quadaffi has been distancing himself from the Arabs as well. Very interesting. If you are not Arab there is less reason for your people to be upset at the Arab Palestinian issue.

There is still the religious componant to the problem but its a start.

Posted by Yank 2003-11-7 10:47:17 AM|| 2003-11-7 10:47:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Sounds good to me. Get back to your roots, teach the kids the ancient language of their ancestors. Cherish your fine history and be proud. Stand up to the islam-o-nuts who are so insecure w/their own short-comings they want to keep you frome educating your people about their past history.

Posted by Jarhead 2003-11-7 1:34:24 PM|| 2003-11-7 1:34:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Imagine an Egypt where a strong King will be able to unite the upper kingdom with the lower kingdom. It would be a time of great monuments and Fair Roe would be his name. The people will shout, "Oh great Fair Roe, we bow to thee, we are Egyptions again, gather the stones and burn the mosques"! And the moderates did tremble in the land of Fair Roe.

Posted by Lucky 2003-11-7 2:35:56 PM|| 2003-11-7 2:35:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Fair Roe
Hmmm... Mullet Run!

Posted by Shipman 2003-11-7 3:31:24 PM|| 2003-11-7 3:31:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 A few months back I read about a renewed intrest in Zarostrianism in Iran. Some of the Mullahs were concerned that if the Theocracy falls the backlash could be against Islam in general and not just the religious leadership.

V.S Naipaul has a few good books on how outside of Arabia (where the previous culture was wiped out entirely or blended into Islam) Islam is basically an imperialist culture atop of ancient cultures that the regions have fought to maintain. Wahhabists hate previous cultures competing with Islam so things have gotten a bit heated in areas as the two sides grind out their differences.

Posted by Yank 2003-11-7 7:58:45 PM|| 2003-11-7 7:58:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 As a Christian of Egyptian descent, I think this is a good idea. Egypt has become too Arabized, and if it becoems "Egyptian" again it would culturally surpass its neighbors by far. It's patriotic Arab identity is actually holding it back. However, it could be said that Arabs originated from Egyptians and Iraqis and thus they truly are all related. Also, Egypt has built itself up to become the most powerful "Arab" state, the most influential "Arab" state. It is where decisions for the Arab world are made. I just hope it wont lose its title as the top dog in the Near East. However, nothing bad is coming out of this party and I think its ideas are excellent. It is a way to have down and out unemployed young Egyptians with the potentail to join fundamental islam be proud of themselves and their ancestors. It would reaffirm an Egyptian identity that is nearly gone. However, EGypt's main problem right now is the economy and I don't see what differece that would make. To get to the point, I agree with Mohsin Lutfi. Although Arabs, Iraqis and Egyptians are both Hamito-Semitic Caucasians who share a common language and culture , they have separate identities that they should individually pursue.

Posted by Patrick 2003-11-11 7:40:41 PM|| 2003-11-11 7:40:41 PM|| Front Page Top

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