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2004-11-15 Home Front: Politix
Breaking News: Sec State Colin Powell Resigns
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Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:07|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Mods, please adjust link when the actual article gets posted. For now they just have a banner, so I liked to the main page.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:08:30 AM||   2004-11-15 10:08:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 err... "linked to", not "liked" - Powell bailing out bothers me a bit - we need a bit more stability in the Bush Cabinet until after the Iraqi elections, and this doesn't help.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:10:13 AM||   2004-11-15 10:10:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 This will give GWB a chance to purge the State Department of liberal holdovers from the Clinton administration.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-11-15 10:11:56 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-11-15 10:11:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Powell was never with the program to begin with. The most feckless Sec State in many years.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:12:02 AM||   2004-11-15 10:12:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 How about Lieberman? Wd show bipartisanship while giving fits to State's arabists and assorted cookie-pushers.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:12:56 AM||   2004-11-15 10:12:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 How about Lieberman?

That would go over well with the A-rab nations, wouldn't it?

I say go for it.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-11-15 10:14:34 AM||   2004-11-15 10:14:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138572,00.html

State needs a good purge, so I guess Powell's departure marks the time to give Condi Rice the fire hose and a ticket to Foggy Bottom.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:15:41 AM||   2004-11-15 10:15:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Lieberman?

Fantastic!

Or how about Chuck Hagel? Get him out of the senate, and put him in the hot seat?
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:16:51 AM||   2004-11-15 10:16:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 McCain?
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:17:37 AM||   2004-11-15 10:17:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Ag sec Ann M. Veneman resigns
Energy Sec Abrams has resigned
Educ Sec Ron Page is 4th.

Odds are Danforth or Condi for sec state
Posted by 3dc 2004-11-15 10:18:46 AM||   2004-11-15 10:18:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Actually Danforth would be suberb. Consummate senate pro and a solid individual in every respect. Not tainted by State. Direct experience with Christian-muslim conflict resolution in Sudan.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:20:52 AM||   2004-11-15 10:20:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Condi would be a grest choice but let me throw out Rudy Guiliani. Otherwise I am with Old Spook.
Posted by Cyber Sarge  2004-11-15 10:21:04 AM||   2004-11-15 10:21:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Cleanse State of the worst arabists and put the remainder on notice.

And raze CIA to the ground. Start over, this time with lots of brilliant young asian-americans who actually know the region, without any academy-induced bogus sentimentalism, and who speak pashto or farsi or mandarin. Enough of the J Leverett "Buzzy" Saltonstall mediocrities.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:24:33 AM||   2004-11-15 10:24:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Putting in a Dummycrat for a Bush cabinet position makes much sense as Oslo, RoadMap, Land for Peace, etc..
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-11-15 10:25:24 AM||   2004-11-15 10:25:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Id like Joe, on principle BUT

A. Dems still cant lose a Senator- whos Gov of Conn now?
B. He hasnt run a bureaucracy bigger than the Conn dept of Justice - not sure if he can take on State.
C. Interesting to see if the admin would appoint a Dem to that position
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-15 10:28:48 AM||   2004-11-15 10:28:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 I'd bet on Danforth. Loyal, experienced, direct experience of the region, no taint of association with State.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:30:12 AM||   2004-11-15 10:30:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 And raze CIA to the ground

seems to be what Goss is doing, but perhaps a tad too fast? See events at Langley the last couple of days. Is it possible to this in a more "nuanced" way. Got to win, but not scorched earth.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-15 10:31:13 AM||   2004-11-15 10:31:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 I'll defer to Old Spook on this, LH. Your thoughts, OS?
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:32:24 AM||   2004-11-15 10:32:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Actually Danforth would be suberb. Perhaps. He seems like a decent fellow. But pause for a second and think about how he would play in the public eye. His weak point from a marketing point of view is that he is as boring as Kerry is to listen to. The droning voice and slow meter will be a liability.
Posted by Jules 187 2004-11-15 10:38:15 AM||   2004-11-15 10:38:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Got to win, but not scorched earth.

That depends on whether any members of the old guard that are worth keeping have been notified and sheltered against the coming storm. If so, then it's time to flush everything else and rebuild.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-11-15 10:39:23 AM||   2004-11-15 10:39:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Good point, Jules. If Danforth is selected it may indicate that Bush is more interested in calming the foreign policy waters than in doing anything bold or creative in his second term.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:41:10 AM||   2004-11-15 10:41:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Senator Joe is a really nice man, and he does get it, but he doesn't seem to have the focussed energy or, honestly, the smarts to clean up the uppity smart boys and girls at State. In a place like that, seeming is as important as being.

I vote Condi Rice. McCain's temper is inflammable, and he is liable to go off in unexpected directions if his feelings get hurt. I want Giuliani at Homeland Security - he can draw up an effective illegal alien plan, and ram it through; Condi doesn't have that kind of experience. But a Black female telling all those male chauvinist pigs that they are SOL? Priceless.
Posted by trailing wife 2004-11-15 10:41:24 AM||   2004-11-15 10:41:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 Some of those folks at Langley only understand tha hard way LH. And those are the ones usually dug in tight. So... tearing the agency down and starting with the new national intelligence agency is the best, albeit most painful, way to go.

Barring that, ripping apart Ops and getting the risk aversepeople, and the political people who have been fighting the Commander In Chief to the point of insubordination? Seems like a good idea to me. Just be sure to call in good people to rebuild so there is no gap - and promote some of the younger field hands, the ones who have done a good job these last 3 years. By now they know who knows theri stuff and who doesnt - and who is likely to leak instead of just getting the job done.

Sure, it going to hit the effectiveness of the CIA, but over-all, the CIA has become ineffective, so there cost to the nation is small in terms of loss of effectiveness - there was damned little effectiveness to begin with where these desk-bound empire builders were working.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:42:24 AM||   2004-11-15 10:42:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 Condi doesn't have the vision or the steel in her spine. She's been out of sight and relatively uninfluential in her first four years. More a courtier than anything else, methinks.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:43:06 AM||   2004-11-15 10:43:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 For those wanting to iuncrease the Republican majority - find states with Republican Governors and Democrat senators.

That is, of course, excluding California - Fineswine and Boxhead are the 2 least qualified people ever to serve in the senate (Other than Carol Mosely Braun) - they are both stupid. I dont know - maybe put one at Sec Agriculture if they'll take it, heh.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:46:29 AM||   2004-11-15 10:46:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 Fox has an article up:

Secretary of State Colin Powell announced his resignation to his staff during their Monday morning meeting, a State Department source told FOX News.

President Bush is expected to make the official announcement. The source suggested that Powell is likely to stay in place until a replacement is confirmed.

Several people have been named as a replacement, including Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice. FOX News contributor and former ambassador Mark Ginsberg said Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz may also want the job, but could face trouble getting confirmed because of the troubles in Iraq that he takes the blame for. Sen. Richard Lugar, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, is also a darkhorse for the job, Ginsberg said.

The news comes as Reuters reports that Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham is also leaving his department, and will stay in place until his replacement is decided.
Posted by trailing wife 2004-11-15 10:47:12 AM||   2004-11-15 10:47:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 Armitage wouldn't be a bad choice. Did a superb job defusing the India-Pak blow-up a couple of years ago.
Also, the man physically resembles an ICBM, so the Euros should be under no illusions about any departure from hawkishness.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:49:43 AM||   2004-11-15 10:49:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 Condi doesn't have the vision or the steel in her spine. She's been out of sight and relatively uninfluential in her first four years. More a courtier than anything else, methinks.

Wrong. Watching her as Ben-Veniste tried to rattle Ms. Rice during the 911 'hearings' and Ms. Rice sitting there, not taking it, yet being polite and firm in her views. That's a tough lady. Ms. Rice would be an outstanding choice for State.
Posted by badanov  2004-11-15 10:52:48 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-11-15 10:52:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 Didn't see that, badanov. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see evidence that she offered much in the way of leadership during the Iraq war inhouse fight between Powell and Rummy. A rather quiet NSA. But perhaps we don't have enough info to judge on that basis alone, so maybe you're right.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 10:55:33 AM||   2004-11-15 10:55:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#30 It was a sight to see. This seasoned political hack (Ben-Veniste) trying to rattle Ms. Rice and Ms. Rice sitting there calm, pleasantly responding to questions that were asked, essentially making Ben-Veniste look like the pencil d*ck blowhard he really is. It colored my view of a person Washignton needs. Her arrival in 2001 was a good thing for the USA. We are lucky to have her running the NSC.

I just think Ms. Rice is a tough warrior. But all that you mentioned I haven't seen either so you may be right yourself.
Posted by badanov  2004-11-15 11:04:08 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-11-15 11:04:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#31 Another interpretation of her low profile in the runup to the Iraq War could be cunning. Avoid being burned by the fire, then step in and kick a** once Powell quits and Rumsfeld's star's been tarnished.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 11:06:09 AM||   2004-11-15 11:06:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#32 Thank you Sec. Powell for your service to your country.
Posted by 2b 2004-11-15 11:11:06 AM||   2004-11-15 11:11:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#33 Get Zell Miller to take the job for a year (he wants to retire so asking for 4 years might be a bit much). His mission is to clean house so the next guy taking over won't have the stigma of being the hatchet man. Zell comes from the left but takes foriegn policy seriously and would have no problem ringing necks. Let Armitage handle the shuttling around between countries to get him in position to take over after a year.

Oh, and give all Visa clearance approval to the Homeland Security Department.
Posted by rjschwarz  2004-11-15 11:19:51 AM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com]  2004-11-15 11:19:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#34 Condi Rice gets my vote as well. She can personable or hostile...and can switch gears between those two positions in milliseconds. She is both brilliant and tough, and seems to have very little "give" in her...perfect for the world situation today!
Posted by Justrand 2004-11-15 11:28:09 AM||   2004-11-15 11:28:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#35 My understanding is that Armitage is very tight with Powell - he would be more of the same.

As for Rice in the pre-war, I hold her personally responsible for much of what went wrong. the lack of a plan for post-war, to begin with. Wolfie and DoD wanted exiles in fast, State and CIA vetoed, IIUC. State and CIA wanted the Baathist army, DoD vetoed. Army wanted more troops, Rummy vetoed. Well its NSA's job to make them agree on SOME plan, not a wish and a prayer, which is what happened (and no, its not Turkeys fault, they should have known there was a chance Turkey wouldnt have come through, and that would only have been one more division anyway)
And for the inability to properly sell the war on its strategic grounds - Wolfie said they sold it on WMD cause it was the only rationale they could all agree on - geez, its the NSAs job to get everyone to agree.

Im sorry, I dont see whats so great about Condi. Shes sharp on TV, great. So is Bill Clinton.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-15 11:30:41 AM||   2004-11-15 11:30:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#36 lex: Condi came out of academia, academic administration. As those of us who survived the experience will tell you, there's no place in the world where the infighting and backbiting is worse. She may, indeed, be the fiercest warrior in the Bush arsenal. Ask Richard Clarke, or, dare I say it, Joe Wilson...
Posted by Chuck Simmins  2004-11-15 11:31:01 AM|| [http://blog.simmins.org]  2004-11-15 11:31:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#37 Zell Miller left? Excuse me, he was always a centrist Dem.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-15 11:32:01 AM||   2004-11-15 11:32:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#38 Condi, Rummy, Rudy, yes, all great people to have on his team-all great leaders with few negatives. This DoS question is way beyond my ken, but I would say don't ignore the negatives in candidate selection for anyone on the Bush team. Experience, ability, intelligence, integrity should all be priorities, but don't ignore perception. Negative public reaction can land you in deep water all by itself sometimes (as ridiculous a reason as it is).
Posted by Jules 187 2004-11-15 11:45:21 AM||   2004-11-15 11:45:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#39 Ok the state department is our diplomatic branch... so I know you're all gonna kill me for this but I don't think Lieberman would be a good choice. He would be starting at a negative with the arab countries when we want to pressure them to do something. Guliani isn't diplomatic enough, he tells it like it is. Condi would be good.
Posted by Damn_Proud_American  2004-11-15 11:48:17 AM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com]  2004-11-15 11:48:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#40 Kissinger did well enough with the arabs. The point about Lieberman is that Bush needs to either signal that he's serious about democracy promotion in the middle east or else go back to the old Kissinger-Scowcroft-Baker realpolitik ways. Colin Powell's commitment to democracy promotion was always half-hearted. Before he was Sec State he was a strong opponent of intervention against fascism in the balkans and visibly reluctant about regime change in Iraq. Perhaps there's some value in good cop (State) bad cop (DoD) but it was far outweighed by the costs of confusion and infighting, esp re the postwar planning.

This is a turning point in US foreign policy, and we need some clarity.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 12:03:19 PM||   2004-11-15 12:03:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 I like Powell, he was too cautious though. His decision making was forged by the lessons he learned in vietnam. It made him completely uncomfortable with any military engagement that couldn't be won in short order. While conceptually I think this is smart (overwhelming force and all) in our current position we don't have the lattitude to pick and choose which conflicts we want. This one's for the whole civilization and we must fight for it.
Posted by Damn_Proud_American  2004-11-15 12:14:42 PM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com]  2004-11-15 12:14:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Fineswine and Boxhead are the 2 least qualified people ever to serve in the senate (Other than Carol Mosely Braun) - they are both stupid.

Throw in Representative Nancy Pelosi and you have a stupidity threesome, California style.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-11-15 12:20:38 PM||   2004-11-15 12:20:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Either Joe Lieberman, Condi Rice or Rudy would all be fine picks. All have deep insight into the true nature of the enemy.
Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-11-15 12:32:43 PM||   2004-11-15 12:32:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Regardless of how good they would be, domestic political reasons are against Lieberman or McCain. Both are from states with the Governor of the opposite party. That may not be a problem with Lieberman, as there would be pressure in all the MSM to appoint a Democrat, but it would mitigate against McCain, for whom there would be no such pressure.

I like Condi right where she is. I think she'd be good as SecDef, but would miss Rummy, so it's a wash. I still want Rudy for DHS.

I can't really think of who I'd want for SoS. 15 years ago, I would have said Kirkpatrick. But now? I don't know anything about Danforth. Luger might work (the new Gov is an R, right?)
Posted by jackal  2004-11-15 3:03:44 PM|| [http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2004-11-15 3:03:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 I'm tired of the not-so-smart people who keep complaining that "there was no post-war plan" -- yes LH, that includes you.

There was "no post-war plan" for Germany, Italy, Japan, etc. etc. There never CAN BE, because no such plan would survive even 5 minutes after meeting with the enemy. Who could have told of what was to happen? who could have told of who would help? I am delighted by how far we have gone in Afghanistan and Iraq after liberating both countries. People who keep complaining have no useful alternative to offer, just their whining.

The American genius is and has been to observe, act, adapt, fix, act, etc. and the European-leftist devil has been to refuse to act until a PLAN was in hand that WOULD deal with ALL that is unforeseen (see Yugoslavia, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, NoKorea, Nazi Germany, etc. for the consequences of that idiotic attitude, and that's what Kerry was bringing to the table btw).
Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2004-11-15 3:12:16 PM|| [http://radio.weblogs.com/0103811/categories/currentEvents/]  2004-11-15 3:12:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#46  Make no mistake, we will not see a Hawk circling above careerists carcasses in the Foggy Bottom.
It would be nice for State and Defense to get together and make like a team from time to time, but It's not going to happen.
States job is to build good relations with other Nations. DoD's job is to be prepared to destroy those same Nations.
They should not, and will not be similar in leadership under W.
That's not say they never will however. A more liberal President might have a Defense Secretary that's also well suited for Sate, just not W.
OTH, I could be wrong, and Condi could end up at State. I believe she could do some very good things there, and be seen as on the same page with the Pentagon. And, when the time comes to put pressure on our psuedo allies, it may pay dividends.
A Hawk at State is a bad political move for W.
I know he can't run for a third term, but Republicans can. Pray for Condi, but don't hold your breath. Condi is as Hawkish as can be hoped for.

Posted by Mike 2004-11-15 4:22:52 PM||   2004-11-15 4:22:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 Chuck Lugar is a panty waste'; Paul Wolf has too many enemies; Lieberman, A-rabs don't believe in diversity; Zell Miller (BYOS bring your own spitballs). Condi takes it; Miller takes NSC (Rudy doesn't want it).

The downside on Powell is that many in the military love the guy -- and for good reason.


Posted by Capt America  2004-11-15 4:25:05 PM||   2004-11-15 4:25:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 KF - it was NO surprise that you need a lot of poople on the ground to occupy a country the size of Iraq. I dont think anyone thought otherwise. So you need the resources to do it. That DOESNT mean you know EXACTLY what you will do with those resources, and it doesnt mean shit isnt still gonna happen. But you need the resources to deal with it. And they werent there. And afaict it was cause the army wanted lots of troops on the ground, State and CIA wanted their friends in the (old)Iraqi army to take charge, and Rummy, Wolfie and Feith wanted the exile and Kurdish militias, supplemented by more trained outside Iraq, to play a dominant role. And EVERYONE vetoed everyone elses plan. NOBODY really wanted to have none of the above, but thats what happened.


Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-15 4:34:44 PM||   2004-11-15 4:34:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 Quit the whining, LH.

How many more troops should the US have had before liberating Iraq? 100,000? one million? ten? where would you have gotten them from? with a draft? and how EXACTLY do you KNOW that more troops would have made the liberation SO MUCH better?

Franks and Rummy and Condi and everyone involved in liberating Afghanistan and Iraq should be PRAISED for what they have achieved so quickly and with so few losses to grieve. That there were disagreement between factions in the government is an integral part of the American spirit and system. The plan Bush accepted has proven sound and the subsequent events will go down in history as great and decisive for liberty.
Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2004-11-15 4:52:38 PM|| [http://radio.weblogs.com/0103811/categories/currentEvents/]  2004-11-15 4:52:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 Lots of interesting comments. I have no dog in this fight. I say Colin Powell for UN Sec General. He would be well sutied for this job.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-11-15 4:56:34 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-11-15 4:56:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 As an Aussie, I go for Zed Miller. As for Richard Armitage, wasn't he the genius who called Iran a "democracy". Also he is Powell's best friend, so you would only get more of the same nonsense, that foggy bottom makes foreign policy instead of carrying out the President's policy.
Posted by tipper 2004-11-15 4:57:04 PM||   2004-11-15 4:57:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 Liberalhawk, you are correct Zell is not of the left and I didn't actually mean to imply that, substitute Democrat Party for 'left'.
Posted by rjschwarz  2004-11-15 5:15:39 PM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com]  2004-11-15 5:15:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 Giuliani would be ideal, but John Bolton should get a look.
Posted by someone 2004-11-15 5:22:31 PM||   2004-11-15 5:22:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 I keep hearing the same names in different mixes. Though the people are, indeed, capable - don't be surprised if Bush & Co have a totally different view and lay some interesting surprises on us.

I have no problems with Giuliani, Rice, Rummy, Wolfie, or Miller in any way, shape, or form -- they all "get it" in spades. The politics? That's for the Minutia Men to play with.

I've read some silly-assed shit in the MSM about:
Lugar - RINO dick who should shoot himself for the good of the country, IMO.
McCain - Loose cannon of self-promotion and purest USDA BS.
Leiberman - I like Joe alot, but this sounds silly when said aloud.

That said, when watching the Talking Head Shows, there are 2 particular individuals (who we all know) who I stop what I'm doing to listen to. They have common sense, heads screwed on straight, no apologies for being hardasses, and few (if any) illusions about the world, WoT, Islam, etc.:
James Woolsey
Laurence Eagleberger

Who do you stop what you're doing to listen to?
Posted by .com 2004-11-15 5:23:45 PM||   2004-11-15 5:23:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 ah, Cardinal Woolsey - veddy interesting. Could be an excellent choice. Tough advocate of pre-emption, no BS, plenty of longstanding ties abroad. Knows Washington inside and out; can bust heads at Foggy Bottom.

Eagleburger's part of the realpolitiker problem. Fine if you want to go back to 9/10, but IMO Bush is on the right track with democracy promotion and needs to accelerate. Woolsey or Giuliani would be superb.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 5:33:53 PM||   2004-11-15 5:33:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#56 Separated from Baker & Co, Eagleberger is pretty interesting to listen to - especially when whacking NorK and Iran. I don't see him as captive to that crowd's philosophy, but I could be wrong.

Woolsey's awesome, lol!
Posted by .com 2004-11-15 5:41:46 PM||   2004-11-15 5:41:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#57 Wouldn't it be a thrill if Rice takes State, then, with about 1 1/2 years left in his term, Dick Cheney decides to resign. Vice President Rice.
Posted by Anonymoose 2004-11-15 5:43:37 PM||   2004-11-15 5:43:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#58 The Presidential Cabinet Rotisserie League! Who's the commisioner?
Posted by sefarius undercover 2004-11-15 5:47:09 PM||   2004-11-15 5:47:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#59 States job is to build good relations with other Nations.

Part of the problem is that this is what DOS believes its job to be but they're wrong. Their real job is to represent the best interests of the United States in the diplomatic arena. Trying to build and maintain good relations with everyone in the world is a very very different and very unproductive mission.
Posted by AzCat 2004-11-15 5:49:49 PM||   2004-11-15 5:49:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#60 Azcat nails the current problem with State - and that clearly indicates where we should be going when replacing the mid-level and upper-level cabal. Use OS's recommendation for young hard-chargers and season with seasoned people who know who the hell they work for.
Posted by .com 2004-11-15 5:54:10 PM||   2004-11-15 5:54:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#61 FOX is announcing it's Condi.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-11-15 5:58:40 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-11-15 5:58:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#62 Kalle - how many more? Probably about 100,000 more around the fall of Baghdad would have done the trick of reducing the looting, and establishing order faster, which would have stopped a lot of bad stuff from snowballing. Where would they have come from - well since my favorite faction in the admin is the neocons, i'll go with the Rummy-wolfie solution, which was to train up very large numbers of Iraqi exiles to go in and run things. Which was apparently vetoed by the nice folks at State and CIA.

How do i know that more troops would help - well i dont know for certain, but months of following the situation, from sources like here, not just the MSM, following what troops have to say, etc, leads me to that opinion.

A victory for liberty - i hope so, but largely because of the perseverence of the Iraqi and American peoples, and the excellence of our troops, and not particularly because of the brilliance of Condi Rice in managing national security policy.


Does our system encourage different opinions - yup it does. But in foreign policy its necessary that a decision be made and enforced at some point, by the Pres with the help of the NSA, or, when Pres leadership is weak, by a strong NSA. And Condi as NSA has failed to do that.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-15 6:03:39 PM||   2004-11-15 6:03:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#63 AzCat, good point. The problem is, without a good relationship, nobody will help you unless it's very good for them. Especially if they'll get political pressure for working with the U.S. when they have a poor relationship with us. A good relationship is a two-way street. I know, I build them for a living. You cannot expect a Country to help you against their best interest, unless we are willing to do the same.
Now, I would prefer to see Kissinger, but I'd be more than happy with Condi.
Posted by Mike 2004-11-15 6:04:48 PM||   2004-11-15 6:04:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#64 LH, what the heck do you mean it's not Turkey's fault? "And that would have been only one division anyway" ... right. Only the most modernly equipped of the divisions, the one taksed to take care of the Sunni triangle, and the "anvil" for the "hammer" coming from the south to hit. Their presence could have prevented the majority, if not all, of the problems we're having in Iraq right now. You usually have well-reasoned input, whether I agree with it or not, but that was beyond the pale.

On the SecState question, what about Bremer? Just tossing it out there for feedback ... I admit to knowing nothing about political power struggles at that level, but he seems a strong candidate.
Posted by docob 2004-11-15 6:11:16 PM||   2004-11-15 6:11:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#65 ABC says Condi.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-15 6:19:21 PM||   2004-11-15 6:19:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#66 Mrs Davis - The "Iron Maiden" takes no prisoners...

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a 1 on 1 between Dr. Rice and any "Old Europe" Foreign minister...

Snicker..snicker...
Posted by BigEd 2004-11-15 6:27:24 PM||   2004-11-15 6:27:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#67 Mike, at the nation-state level there is nothing but self-interest. We have a very severe problem in that portions of our own government don't seem capable of fulfilling that role.

While there's certainly a lot of value to be realized in the DOS/DOD good cop/bad cop routine it's even more important that both the good cop and the bad cop realize that at the end of the day it is the interests of the American people that they represent and ONLY the interests of the American people. From the outside looking in it appears that DOS has long been severly infected with the sort of elitist liberal group think that doesn't recognize their own duty to act in the best interests of their own nation.

Further, if the mission of the DOS is to ensure that we're well-liked they've failed miserably. We likely wouldn't do much worse if we completely disbanded our diplomatic corps and communicated with the world via press releases from the oval office.
Posted by AzCat 2004-11-15 6:40:16 PM||   2004-11-15 6:40:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#68 I seriously doubt that Chirac and Schroeder and Bambi et al would be so heavily dissing Bush if they were not receiving winks and nudges from our preofessional diplomats in Europe. At a minimum they have failed to speak out on behalf of democracy promotion and the overthrow of fascists like Saddam. Jeff Gedmin of the Aspen Institute in Berlin has been more visible and vocal than our Berlin-based Foreign Service staff. Shameful. This has to change.
Posted by lex 2004-11-15 7:27:00 PM||   2004-11-15 7:27:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#69 And here I thought Condi wanted to be the NFL Commish. She'll do well. I would have loved to have heard the uproar from Foggy Bottom had Rummy taken over, though.
Posted by eLarson 2004-11-15 9:26:14 PM||   2004-11-15 9:26:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#70 Mods, please adjust link when the actual article gets posted. For now they just have a banner, so I liked to the main page.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:08:30 AM||   2004-11-15 10:08:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#71 err... "linked to", not "liked" - Powell bailing out bothers me a bit - we need a bit more stability in the Bush Cabinet until after the Iraqi elections, and this doesn't help.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:10:13 AM||   2004-11-15 10:10:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#72 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138572,00.html

State needs a good purge, so I guess Powell's departure marks the time to give Condi Rice the fire hose and a ticket to Foggy Bottom.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:15:41 AM||   2004-11-15 10:15:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#73 Lieberman?

Fantastic!

Or how about Chuck Hagel? Get him out of the senate, and put him in the hot seat?
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:16:51 AM||   2004-11-15 10:16:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#74 Some of those folks at Langley only understand tha hard way LH. And those are the ones usually dug in tight. So... tearing the agency down and starting with the new national intelligence agency is the best, albeit most painful, way to go.

Barring that, ripping apart Ops and getting the risk aversepeople, and the political people who have been fighting the Commander In Chief to the point of insubordination? Seems like a good idea to me. Just be sure to call in good people to rebuild so there is no gap - and promote some of the younger field hands, the ones who have done a good job these last 3 years. By now they know who knows theri stuff and who doesnt - and who is likely to leak instead of just getting the job done.

Sure, it going to hit the effectiveness of the CIA, but over-all, the CIA has become ineffective, so there cost to the nation is small in terms of loss of effectiveness - there was damned little effectiveness to begin with where these desk-bound empire builders were working.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:42:24 AM||   2004-11-15 10:42:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#75 For those wanting to iuncrease the Republican majority - find states with Republican Governors and Democrat senators.

That is, of course, excluding California - Fineswine and Boxhead are the 2 least qualified people ever to serve in the senate (Other than Carol Mosely Braun) - they are both stupid. I dont know - maybe put one at Sec Agriculture if they'll take it, heh.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:46:29 AM||   2004-11-15 10:46:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#76 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:08:30 AM||   2004-11-15 10:08:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#77 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:10:13 AM||   2004-11-15 10:10:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#78 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:15:41 AM||   2004-11-15 10:15:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#79 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:16:51 AM||   2004-11-15 10:16:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#80 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:42:24 AM||   2004-11-15 10:42:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#81 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by OldSpook 2004-11-15 10:46:29 AM||   2004-11-15 10:46:29 AM|| Front Page Top

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