Article

2004-10-20 Iraq-Jordan

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Posted by ed 2004-10-20 6:05:15 AM|| || Front Page|| [11127 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Syrian guards, eh? I hope people are writing this down for future reference...

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-10-20 10:25:34 AM|| 2004-10-20 10:25:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Instructions were given that the murder should be filmed and presented to resemble as closely as possible the beheadings of Bigleyâs American companions, Eugene Armstrong and Jack Hensley, who had been abducted with him in Baghdad three weeks earlier

I find that to be a very interesting detail. Not sure exactly what it means. Did they want to make it look like Zarqawi was there...or that he oversaw it? I remember that the Jihadi's went to excessive lengths to assure us that Zarqawi had ordered it, blessed it and personally overseen the beheading. Just so there wasn't any doubt or anything.

Or could it mean that this is all BS and that he was actually killed earlier on than they want us to believe?

Regardless..it's an interesting and odd detail in an odd story.

Posted by 2b 2004-10-20 11:05:58 AM|| 2004-10-20 11:05:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 that mosque should be leveled. It's place as a house of religion is done. Kill It

Posted by Frank G 2004-10-20 11:31:34 AM|| 2004-10-20 11:31:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Syrian intel agents following orders from Assad?

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2004-10-20 12:13:16 PM|| [http://blog.simmins.org] 2004-10-20 12:13:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 When Iraqis tire of al-Zarqawi? Is there a great precedent in Islamia for having had enough of any terrorists? I haven't seen too many people taking to the streets of Palestine or Iraq demanding Islamicists stop their murderous rampages.

I do think the numbers of jihadi recruits would increase enormously were mosques attacked, but OTOH perhaps Muslims would understand what the price is for their tolerating "heroic jihadi" crimes if we did so. They certainly need a little fire under their rears for motivation. Whatever tactic we use, we should employ the strategy of hurting the things they value.

Posted by Jules 187 2004-10-20 12:25:03 PM|| 2004-10-20 12:25:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Hmmmm.... wasn't it Abu Nidal's group that was destroyed from the inside by his increasing paranoia? He was led to see turncoats and informers at every turn, which led him to conduct purges which eventually rendered his group next to non-existant and ineffective. Dare we hope that some clever-cogs in intelligence are encouraging Zarqawi down the same path?

Posted by Sgt. Mom 2004-10-20 1:19:22 PM|| [http://www.sgtstryker.com] 2004-10-20 1:19:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 I haven't seen too many people taking to the streets of Palestine or Iraq demanding Islamicists stop their murderous rampages.

there was a demo against Sadr in Najaf a couple of months ago. I suggest you check Healing Iraq, Messopotamian, and other Iraqi bloggers. These things dont get much publicity. Also realize that demoing against terrorists in Iraq means taking your life in your hands, since terrs are still going around killing.

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-10-20 1:48:10 PM|| 2004-10-20 1:48:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 I didn't say there weren't any-I said there weren't many, at least that we've heard of. Of course you are right, they would be taking their lives in their hands. The question they should be asking themselves is:
are we taking our lives in our hands by risking bombing and continued war from America while we protect Islamic martyrs
or
are we taking our lives in our hands by enraging jihadis while we work to be in control of our own lives, for the first time in decades?

I don't mean to be flippant, LH, but one some level, those are the choices they are faced with.

Posted by Jules 187 2004-10-20 2:02:19 PM|| 2004-10-20 2:02:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 The Najaf guys wanted to get their shrine businesses open, again. Tater and the US cost them money.

Posted by .com 2004-10-20 2:03:56 PM|| 2004-10-20 2:03:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 jules asked if theres precedent for muslims having had enough of terrorists (I presume on ANY grounds, financial or otherwise) I think there is abundant precedent, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and in Algeria. For the most part this isnt expressed through demonstrations (though sometimes it is - and when it is, its not well reported)but through day to day actions in support of the regimes doing battle with the terrorists. For the most part demonstrations in that part of the world i either manipulated by govts, or stirred by demagogues - theyre not part of ordinary democratic political discourse. That, among other things, is what we are trying to change. But they certainly dont NOW have a political culture like ours.

Every week the jihadis kill Iraqi police and national guards, or people lining up to join the IP and ING. With what result? People CONTINUE to line up to join the IP and ING. That says it all, i think. Even if many of those are doing so mainly for money. Theyre risking their lives. To DO something, not merely to say something.

"In the beginning was the deed" - Goethe.

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-10-20 2:36:23 PM|| 2004-10-20 2:36:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I've seen the long version of the Bigley beheading video. There were 2 things that seemed very odd, when compared to previous beheadings by Zarqawi's group. First, all 6 masked terrorists, standing behind Bigley, were wearing street clothes. Khaki pants, bright colored button down shirts, vests, it seemed they were rushed to do this. The second diffrence was it was shot with 2 cameras. The first camera was straight on, while the 2nd shot appeared to come from Bigley's immediate left. The camera shots seemed to transition seamlessly. IMO, if we are to find Zarqawi, I think detaining all Al-Jazeera employees in Iraq for questioning, would be a good start. Someone is definately helping on the production end of these videos.

Posted by Destro 2004-10-20 2:54:00 PM|| 2004-10-20 2:54:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Fallujah delenda est.

Posted by lex 2004-10-20 3:00:20 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:00:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 LH-That they are doing so mainly for money is worrying. If their reason for signing up morphs into the chance to fight for their own people's freedom from tyranny, we'll all breathe a sigh of relief.

Destro-I like your Al Jazeera idea. If they're so comfortable with watching a decapitation and not moving an inch to save someone's life, maybe they can be next in line.

Posted by Jules 187 2004-10-20 3:01:53 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:01:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Destro, interesting. Jules... so true!

Posted by 2b 2004-10-20 3:04:44 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:04:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I will not kneel before these terrorists. If I don't join the army, who is going to defend the country from the terrorists?" - an Iraqi recruit, after yet another hideous terrorist assault on an Iraqi National Guard building.

from the New York Times, via Andrew Sullivan.

Not a demonstator. Not a blogger. A soldier. In the beginning was the deed.

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-10-20 3:14:22 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:14:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 That they are doing so mainly for money is worrying

I daresay many american soldiers enter for career reasons. Motives are rarely pure, in any human endeavour.

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-10-20 3:15:40 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:15:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 That they are doing so mainly for money is worrying

I daresay many american soldiers enter for career reasons. Motives are rarely pure, in any human endeavour.

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-10-20 3:15:45 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:15:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 LH-Do you think that was true of Revolutionary War soldiers, too?

Posted by Jules 187 2004-10-20 3:17:18 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:17:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 I will not kneel before these terrorists. If I don't join the army, who is going to defend the country from the terrorists?" - an Iraqi recruit, after yet another hideous terrorist assault on an Iraqi National Guard building.

A true Iraqi hero. Wonder if his story will go down in history (as it should) as one of the founding fathers of the new deomcratic Iraq.

Posted by Jules 187 2004-10-20 3:18:56 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:18:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 LH-Do you think that was true of Revolutionary War soldiers, too

I dont know. Ive read less than I would like about the War of Independence. It was certainly true of many soldiers in the Army of the Potomac, and the officers had mixed motives as well. Certainly from what my Dad told me, most men in the "greatest generation" went to war because they had to, not in a fit of anti-fascist enthusiasm.

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-10-20 3:33:58 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:33:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 BTW, i daresay most Americans in 1776 were farmers on their own land. While times may have been tough, with trans-atlantic trade interrupted, they could feed their own families. Unemployment in Iraq today is still widespread (though decreasing) and a rather more serious matter than in the West.

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-10-20 3:36:38 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:36:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 heres the fuller quote, with the name

One of those who survived the blast was a national guard soldier named Qusay Hassan. He spoke with anger following the death and maiming of his comrades, and his spirit seemed unbroken.

"I will not kneel before these terrorists," Mr. Hassan said. "If I don't join the army, who is going to defend the country from the terrorists?"

and heres something from strategy page, via instapundit

Foreigners are mystified at how Iraqis continue to join the police and army, despite the car bombings and other attacks directed against them. It's not just for the money. For many of these recruits, there is a dead relative, murdered by some Sunni Arab thug working for Saddam. It's civil war, and the coalition wants to prevent it from turning into an orgy of revenge. What gets little reported in the West is the enthusiasm among Iraqis, and especially members of the government, for just bombing Fallujah into rubble.

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-10-20 3:57:38 PM|| 2004-10-20 3:57:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 from Iraq the Model:

This morning my uncle whoâs a highschool principal found a post signed by Al Tawheed Wal Jihad group on the door of his school. It seems that they are distributing a poster throughout Baghdad demanding all government employees to stop going to work, threatening to behead anyone who disobey! It reads:

In the name of God most merciful most gracious
A threat to all government institutes and all government employees. Why do you keep going to work and schools and keep silent about the occupation? We will behead anyone who commits to work in government institutes.
Allah Akbar Allah Akbar
wal yakhsaâa Il khasiâoon*
Al Tawheed Wal Jihad group.

And here we sit, comfortably, typing about the "cowardice" of ordinary Iraqis.

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-10-20 4:17:05 PM|| 2004-10-20 4:17:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 I could not call them cowards. I think they are of two minds, wanting to be faithful to their religion, but de facto-by doing so in modern-day Iraq-ending up being supportive of terrorist jihadis, consciously or not. I appreciate the fact that they don't have the luxury of casual, detached, and patient consideration of the war. But with death coming from both directions, wouldn't choosing
1.) the option with the best chance to deliver national freedom
2.) the option that doesn't involve blackmail
3.) the option where you punish those who intentionally targeted your family, friends rather than soldiers who UNintentionally killed your family WHILE killing terrorists and insurgents
4.) The option where the fighters are obviously helping you with medicine, financial support, military support
be more compelling?

I am glad to see from your post-scripts that this seems to be the case, at least point 3.

Posted by Jules 187 2004-10-20 4:32:27 PM|| 2004-10-20 4:32:27 PM|| Front Page Top

07:39 Sock Puppet of Doom
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02:48 Classical_Liberal
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23:57 Jabba the Nutt
23:41 Pappy
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23:36 .com
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23:05 trailing wife
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22:47 Poison Reverse
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22:41 Dar