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2004-10-17 Israel-Palestine
Israel fears increasing isolation amid souring relations with EU, UN
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Posted by Steve White 2004-10-17 2:13:02 AM|| || Front Page|| [11138 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 This is a truley amazing story. I have yet to see a story so clearly knotted up in the language of the diplomat yet so awful in its premise. The writer must have spent days awake trying to contort logic in this piece.

Where to begin:

The EU should talk in view of the fact that they until recently have helped fund terrorism against Israel through funding Arafat, or by the awful funding the the UN organization which runs the refugee camps which provide the main haven for terrorists.

This sabre rattling by this EU reoport is clearly based on the premise that Kerry wins in November. The EU knows all too well if Bush gets his second term a lot of this manuevering to aid terrorism will stop forthwith and the EU will be forced to deal with whatever consequences the White Hosue decides will be appropriate.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-17 3:51:01 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-10-17 3:51:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Israel fears increasing isolation ...

Watch my lips move ... INCREASING?

Anti-Semitism is alive and well in Europe. Genocide's sepsis has yet to be excoriated from the globe's face. Much of the Islamic world merely says aloud what many other cultures think behind closed doors. Israel must pretend that it has no friends, only that way will it survive. All Jewish people need only examine the UN's track record on anti-Semitism to gauge the climate of world sentiment.
Posted by Zenster 2004-10-17 4:32:29 AM||   2004-10-17 4:32:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Europeans like Anna Frank.
Living Jews is another matter entirely.
Posted by Anonymous6092  2004-10-17 5:46:33 AM||   2004-10-17 5:46:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Fear of being turned into a boycotted pariah state like South Africa. This has always been the reason Israel goes easy on Islamic Jihadists and murderers. Trade with Europe is a huge component of Israel's economy.

All has to do with idolization of the Third World and their so called self determination and so called liberation movements. With Muslim self determination movements automatically occupying a golden position. Was South Africa really liberated by Mandela's forces? All I read is that it's worse now than under apartheid. And wonder of wonders, it has a large Jihadist community. SA is not the first place you think of when you think of Muslims but there you have it. Remember the Durban conference?
Posted by dennisw 2004-10-17 10:00:54 AM||   2004-10-17 10:00:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 With Muslim self determination movements automatically occupying a golden position. Was South Africa really liberated by Mandela's forces?

Yes, it was.

All I read is that it's worse now than under apartheid.

Change your reading materials.

And wonder of wonders, it has a large Jihadist community.

I somehow doubt that -- unless I am mistaken you must have very loose definitions of "large" to say that.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-10-17 10:37:28 AM||   2004-10-17 10:37:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Aris - stick to the little you know anything about. SA has the highest crime/rape/murder/HIV rate in teh friggin world. Muslims have been established there long before the whites came
Posted by Frank G  2004-10-17 10:40:22 AM||   2004-10-17 10:40:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 BTW - on topic - Israel has it's own little self-hating lefty community which hand-wrings over any loss of love from the EU. Fuck Europe and the EU's image of Israel. Funding of Paleokillers has shown them as the Jew haters they are
Posted by Frank G  2004-10-17 10:42:28 AM||   2004-10-17 10:42:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Aris - stick to the little you know anything about. SA has the highest crime/rape/murder/HIV rate in teh friggin world.

But dennisw asn't talking about *safety*, he was talking about *liberty*.

Are you willing to abandon liberty for safety, Frank? Then you deserve neither. I'm sure there was somebody out there who said that.

Muslims have been established there long before the whites came

Yeah, a full *2 percent* of the South African population is Muslim. It must have a truly huge jihadi community.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-10-17 11:32:30 AM||   2004-10-17 11:32:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Are you willing to abandon liberty for safety, Frank? Then you deserve neither.

Looks like a logical fallacy to me by presenting false choices. Thought you were in school, learning not to make these rhetorical jumps.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-17 11:39:58 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-10-17 11:39:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 It only takes a truly huge jihadi community 19 to do plenty of damage.
Posted by Tom 2004-10-17 11:42:07 AM||   2004-10-17 11:42:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 OK, let me see if I got the gist of this right.
Unless the Jews lay down and let themselves get slaughtered (allow the Palestinians to finish what the Nazis failed to do....wipe them off of the earth....), they will have no friends except the big bad ugly US.
Before, say, this week, the UN was pro-Israel.
And, oh yeah, the EU is gonna clean America's clock once they get their sh-t together.
Riiiiiiiight.
Posted by Desert Blondie 2004-10-17 11:42:20 AM||   2004-10-17 11:42:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Looks like a logical fallacy to me by presenting false choices.

No false choices on my part, badanov. Obviously, having *both* liberty and safety would be best.

It wasn't *me* who claimed that South Africa was worse off because of its crime rates, without even bothering to mention the status of freedom and democracy there.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-10-17 11:45:15 AM||   2004-10-17 11:45:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 free to be raped and killed at a rate higher than any other place in the world (lawless is the definition) is not my idea of a national success
Posted by Frank G  2004-10-17 11:49:33 AM||   2004-10-17 11:49:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Frank> free to be raped and killed

And free to go where they want, and vote who they want, and live where they want, and marry who they want, and speak as they will, without government interference. Freedoms that mean little to you, of course.

Careful there Frank. Usage of such statistics as you are using would put USA at a much worse place liberty-wise than most nations of Europe.

Actually it *is* the exact kind of evidence that I've seen extreme leftists use when they want to undervalue the freedoms USA enjoys -- or to praise the supposed goods of the Soviet Union for that matter (they may not have had freedom but the streets were safe, right?)

No wonder that you people are using it to support the apartheid regime instead. The monster has many different masks but it's the same monster beneath.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-10-17 12:06:37 PM||   2004-10-17 12:06:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 so now I support apartheid? I was just saying the ANC thugs and commies you treasure have fucked things up worse than ever imagined. How about a necklace, Aris? Dissenters there love them....
Posted by Frank G  2004-10-17 12:20:06 PM||   2004-10-17 12:20:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Whoops, careful there, yourself, Aris.
The crime rate is going down here in the States, and up in Europe....including violent crimes.

In some circumstances (mainly property crimes), Europe actually exceeds the American crime rate. England and Australia have a higher violent crime rate than we do now. Even Finland is more violent than we are.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/12/01/ncrime01.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/12/01/ixhome.html

Next time you slam America, please try to be accurate......


Posted by Desert Blondie 2004-10-17 12:21:23 PM||   2004-10-17 12:21:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Desert Blondie> Next time you reply to my posts, please understand that it's Frank's logic that uses crime rates to judge whether a nation is liberated or not. Not mine.

so now I support apartheid? I was just saying the ANC thugs and commies you treasure have fucked things up worse than ever imagined.

Than "ever imagined"? Nah, there are worse ways to fuck things up, and they are synopsized in the words "apartheid" and "tyranny".

What's the current crime rate in Iraq, Frank? I've never seen you attack statements that Iraq has been "liberated" though -- and in Iraq's case not even elections have taken place yet.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-10-17 12:27:51 PM||   2004-10-17 12:27:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Frank,
Indeed The Europeans are secretely heavily funding The Israely left in their efforts to meddle in Israel's internal politics. As this doesn't help they are now trying to resort to threats of boycotting Israel with economic sanctions (they have not done so yet). I expect them to start doing this once they get desperate enough.
I truely hope that gradually as their unintegrated
embittered and fundamentalist minorities start ramping up civil violence and terror so that they will get a better taste of what we are experiencing daily.
It seems like the train bombing in spain and the Ricin stocks in GB did not ring the bell loud enough for them. they need large scale mass murder in their midst to make them understand that even to their Pali proteges they are just D'himmies and Kafirs.
Posted by Elder of Zion 2004-10-17 12:42:20 PM||   2004-10-17 12:42:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Elder of Zion wrote
"The Europeans are secretely heavily funding The Israely left"

Covertly?
Posted by Anonymous6092  2004-10-17 2:22:23 PM||   2004-10-17 2:22:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 dennisw, one of the PMPI (pseudo Marxist, pseudo intellectual) bandarlogs more eggregious shticks is equating Israel to SA.
SA was a country with (approx) 80% second class citizens.
Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East (and the way things going in EUropa, soon to be the only democracy in the old world).
Posted by Anonymous6092  2004-10-17 2:30:53 PM||   2004-10-17 2:30:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Here's a job for you, Aris. Don't forget to visit the mosque.
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/africa/sefer.cgi?display:1032379976-23028.txt
Posted by rhodesiafever  2004-10-17 3:24:53 PM||   2004-10-17 3:24:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 rhodesiafever> Is the article you posted supposed to indicate that apartheid was better and more free? Namely the thing that dannyw said, and which I disputed, and which then led to Frank G ramble?

If that's what it was supposed to mean, then you didn't read it nearly carefully enough. Wow, you can't *jog* or take a taxi in some areas because of safety concerns. As opposed to during the apartheid when you weren't even allowed to exist in some areas. Yeah, that's supposed to be a major worsening of the situation. *Right*.

Still bitterly amusing how the existence of merely 2% of muslims is enough to get y'all talk about the horror of Islam's existence in South Africa.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-10-17 3:45:24 PM||   2004-10-17 3:45:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Aris, I could write at length about South Africa's brutal transition to democracy and the state of terror in which people of all races live there now. Suffice it to say that SA is a major disappointment for those who thought a stable democracy could be created there. Of course, the international media wont report the truth about it because they want the myth of 'the peaceful transition to democracy' to stand.
Posted by Bryan 2004-10-17 3:51:20 PM||   2004-10-17 3:51:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Aris doesn't care about the terrorized since they live in a *correct* society now. Nobody here argues that apartheid was right, Aris. Quit being a pedantic asshole
Posted by Frank G  2004-10-17 4:06:52 PM||   2004-10-17 4:06:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Frank, you have your own interpretation of dennisw's words - mine is very different. But nobody here said that the post-Apartheid government has made a good job, or that the situation is peechy keen, and yet that's what you've been implying aboout me.

But tell me straight out what *you* think, Frank. Do you consider the fall of the apartheid regime a "liberation" or don't you?

When dennisw asked "Was South Africa liberated?" was therefore the proper answer "Yes" or "No"? Make a choice.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-10-17 4:29:06 PM||   2004-10-17 4:29:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 yes I do - however, I consider what's followed short steps from a southern ZimBOBwe. Whites are leaving in droves. Why? Ask Kim DuToit
Posted by Frank G  2004-10-17 4:32:49 PM||   2004-10-17 4:32:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 If you believe the answer was "Yes" then your sole problem with my first post was that when dannyw said "All I read is that it's worse now than under apartheid." I said "Change your reading material".

Is it pedantic to say that if he's seeing *only* bad things about South Africa it's time to read something new? Yes, HIV is a huge problem -- but would the apartheid government have been better to handle it? Yes, the increase in rapes by people who think that having sex with a virgin will magically heal them from AIDS are a horrible horrible thing -- but would the apartheid government have even cared about what's happening inside the black areas?

"Whites are leaving in droves. Why? "

Too much crime rate? Too many poor black people suddenly around?

Reference *black* people saying that life for them in South Africa is now worse than during the apartheid, please.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-10-17 4:49:34 PM||   2004-10-17 4:49:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 We're wrong again Aris. Thank God for your insights. We don't deserve you. I mean that. We really don't deserve you.

I haven't felt this guilty since the Colonels took power. What can I say to make it up to you? Do you have a PayPal Account? A book? Lunch? I just don't know what to do.
Posted by Shipman 2004-10-17 8:08:56 PM||   2004-10-17 8:08:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Aris, let me address the crime issue. The husband of a friend of mine was not long ago offered a wonderful position if he would only transfer from Brussels to Cape Town. She wasn't keen, but agreed to join him on the look-see (a.k.a. seduction) trip. When she spoke to the local wives they told her to expect either robbery with violence or rape in her home at least once per year. She made her husband turn down the assignment -- she didn't think the promotion prospects were worth it. Its absolutely not happening just in the bad neighborhoods.
Posted by trailing wife 2004-10-17 8:18:06 PM||   2004-10-17 8:18:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Shipman> "I just don't know what to do." Fucking off and dropping dead would be a hell of a gift for you to give me. Think you can manage that?
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-10-17 8:52:43 PM||   2004-10-17 8:52:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Aye Caramba!
Posted by Rafael 2004-10-17 9:32:42 PM||   2004-10-17 9:32:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 All Israel needs to continue to exist is the support of the US. As long as George Bush is in the White House, Israel has no worries and can tell the EU where to put the anti-Semitic blather. If Kerry wins, they truly are in trouble. Should the UN and EU try the South Africa treatment on Israel, there will be no reason for them to hold back in dealing with the Palestinians. The Arabs might not like who gets driven into the sea.
Posted by RWV 2004-10-17 9:49:44 PM||   2004-10-17 9:49:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Continue to exist politically, yes, RWV. The question this article addresses, however, is whether she will be able to continue economically. Because of proximity, the EU is a major market for Israel. There are already problems with semi-official boycotts of Israeli produce because of the European preference for Palestinian terrorists; if the EU were to officially close their borders, Israel's economy would be hit quite hard, indeed. (Some of you investor/business types can no doubt quantify my statement.)
Posted by trailing wife 2004-10-18 12:09:16 AM||   2004-10-18 12:09:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#34 Who are the terrorists? the people who had their land taken from them and given to a bunch of US backed heavily armed religious isolationists in the 1950s and have been persecuted by said squawking bi-partisan coalition ever since or the people funded and armed by the worlds largest superpower who routinely flaunt the conventions of world diplomacy, send tanks into civilian towns and build a vast wall as if we were still in the cold war.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 12:17:15 AM||   2004-10-18 12:17:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#35 You're boring the hell out of me, Apesh*tSociopath.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-18 12:27:47 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-10-18 12:27:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#36 Ah! Nothing is more splendid than the chap who, when confronted with a reasoned argument, decides to respond by mocking the persons screenname! Sir, i salute you as one of the leading thinkers and philosophers of our time.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 12:34:56 AM||   2004-10-18 12:34:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#37 "when confronted with a reasoned argument"

Tell me that you are just pulling our leg, and cited some snippet from the Little Red Book for our amusement.
Posted by Memesis 2004-10-18 12:48:12 AM||   2004-10-18 12:48:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#38 There is a difference between socialism and communism you know old chap. I know in your two tone, 'with us or against us' world there isn't much room for shades of policitcal colour but, trust me, in real democracies we have more than two voting options. Its great.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 12:51:43 AM||   2004-10-18 12:51:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#39 How is that Ash-heap of History? Pretty comfortable?
Posted by mojo  2004-10-18 12:57:28 AM||   2004-10-18 12:57:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#40 Socialism is a illness. Countries that catch it die from it.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-10-18 1:01:58 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-10-18 1:01:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#41 #38 Well then, go enjoy your rainbow.
Posted by Memesis 2004-10-18 1:03:04 AM||   2004-10-18 1:03:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#42 I take it you are of North American extraction mojo? I have been to your country, it's rather pleasant in a quaint sort of a way; rather too many flags and guns for my liking but each to their own. Have you been to our little corner of the world? It's doing rather well, we have this wonderful thing called the EU and our neighbours have something called the Euro? (thats.... worth more than an American dollar? something about a failing economy and all your jobs going to China?). Anyway, enjoy your sinking ship chaps.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 1:06:51 AM||   2004-10-18 1:06:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#43 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for their's is the kingdom of Eurabia.
Posted by Memesis 2004-10-18 1:13:41 AM||   2004-10-18 1:13:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#44 For the citizens of the worlds only superpower (well, of course the EU knocks you into the ground on every level but we are many countries not one) you are desperatly insecure.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 1:16:56 AM||   2004-10-18 1:16:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#45 Well the EURO is worth much rather less than a £ So you are not from the UK. Therefore you must be dwelling somewhere under a bridge.

BTW A weak dollar is good for the US. It means US goods and services are cheaper than those in the EU which means our economy will out perform EUrope again this year. I'll remember that while I am eating my plentiful cheap food while living in my large by EU standards home which I own. Oh I forgot most in EUrope can't afford to own their own home while here in North America most do. In the US it's 61% of the population owns it's own home. How is it living in government housing? How is living on the dole?
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-10-18 1:23:05 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-10-18 1:23:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#46 For the citizens of the worlds only superpower (well, of course the EU knocks you into the ground on every level but we are many countries not one) you are desperatly insecure.

It will most likely take another world war like the one going on right now for Eurostanis to realize that hubris is no substitute for security.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-18 1:23:44 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-10-18 1:23:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#47 Americans are all too familiar with the difference between socialism and communism. It is the difference between Hitler and Stalin. Unlike you, we read history to learn from it. We also study the present in order to mold the future. And I have seen your future. It is here. Get used to it slave. And kiss your girlfriend goodbye. Even though she is no way near the "30,000 women of extraordinary beauty" the muslims took as sex slaves from Spain, she will do in a after-having-a-12-pack sort of way. When Makhmud has had to make do with 12 year old boys, even your girl will do.

Goodbye slave. Don't complaint too loudly or your muslim masters will cut off another body part.
Posted by ed 2004-10-18 1:28:03 AM||   2004-10-18 1:28:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#48 Actually I am from the UK old chap. Thats why i said our NEIGHBOURS have the euro. We, as you so rightly pointed out, have the £. Now, i know your american education system is not up to much but i would have thought they could have taught you how to read a simply worded blog. I appologise for expecting too much. But for the record a similar (if not greater) number of people in the UK are home owners. As for a weak dollar you are correct, it is good for US companies to be able to compete in the EU (your biggest trading partner) on price (tariffs not withstanding of course). It would be rather bad if you were running a vast trade deficit with China (hereafter known as 'the next superpower') because then... o no dear god you are! Damn that would be terrible news for Joe Average with his Average education and comfortably sized house. Imagine if his job were outsourced to china and he lost his medical cover and couldn't keep up his mortgage payments. But hey theres always state medical.... uhhhh, well, atleast you'll have generous welfare to help you.... ah, well, atleast you have soup kitchens eh?
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 1:33:53 AM||   2004-10-18 1:33:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#49 ed, i don't know if you've been paying much attention to world events in the past say, ooo, 3 years but Europe isn't currently target number one for terrorists, extremists and, well, anyone with an axe to grind.

Also, you think hitler was a socialist? i thought you said you were taught history? luckily i'm currently doing a history MA at one of the UKs leading universities and so can clear up your elementary level history mistake for you; you were thinking of FASCISM and COMMUNISM old chap but never give up hope eh?

And, re: molding the future, what on earth makes you think america will be doing that 20 years from now?
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 1:40:01 AM||   2004-10-18 1:40:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#50 You function under economic assumptions that seem to bolster the case for government intervention in an economy ( AKA: Socialism AKA Communism )when in fact the opposite is the case. Income supports, such as the one you proudly profess in your Eurostani superiority to the United States make an economy fragile and less able to deal with turns of economic events. Events include: Higher fuel prices and Kyoto, outsourcing of jobs, which occur in Britland as well as the rest of Eurostan as well as the USA.

The only thing that Keynes got right is that buying in a recession is not just a good idea, it is the only way to cure economic woes. And the best agent for spending is not government, but the people who earn the money.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-18 1:44:45 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-10-18 1:44:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#51 Don't have children slave (not that children is something Socialist Europe knows anything about). For their future is also already written.
Posted by ed 2004-10-18 1:47:58 AM||   2004-10-18 1:47:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#52 FASCISM was Italian invention. Hitler was a national socialist (NSDAP -- Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei -- National Socialist German Worker Party ).

"Europe isn't currently target number one for terrorists"

Madrid 3/11 anyone? And that is just a small change in comparison what's coming to you, I am sorry to say. Well, it is still a few years down the stream, so for now, happy, happy, John.
Posted by Memesis 2004-10-18 1:49:56 AM||   2004-10-18 1:49:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#53 In 20 years:

Iraq will host the 2024 Summer Olympics
Eurostan and all its socialist underpinnings will be dismantled in favor of a pan Islamic Confederation of States cobbled together by the double whammy of Kyoto and Euro-ignorance of modern economics. Jobs, money and manufactruing assets will have long ago been moved to the western hemisphere.

All this after the 15 year cleanup from the Iranian nuclear missile attack fueled by Eurostani/Russian uranium. Cancer will be something like 15 percent, VD and AIDS will be rife amoungst the young. The only American goods shipped from north America will be humanitarian supplies just to enough to stave off total famine.

It's an ugly future, dude.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-18 1:51:14 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-10-18 1:51:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#54 I'm familiar with the ideas of the free market and they, in princepal, are not awful. However, a compassionate society (and, considering only 12% of US citizens consider themselves athiest you should, again in princepal, be the world's most compassionate society) should seek to support its less fortunate citizens in times of trouble. I know America is very fond of its gun toting, 'every man for himself', striding across the plains to make a decent heroic living from the land image (whilst wrapped in a flag presumably; ironically the exact same image communist and fascist dictatorships fed to the masses, odd no?) but a healthy society cannot operate like that. By all means make money, spend it how you like, but you are part of society and must pay for its up keep (if you don't like that go and form your own commune in alaska). On the most selfish level, even if you don't care one jot for your fellow man, it could one day be that you are hurt or fall ill and are no longer able to work and i suspect then you will be grateful for the state assistance you scorn now.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 1:59:01 AM||   2004-10-18 1:59:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#55 "in princepal"

Well, I hope that you did not have to pay for your education, otherwise, be in your place, I would ask for my money back.
Posted by Memesis 2004-10-18 2:04:52 AM||   2004-10-18 2:04:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#56 Hitler was still a FASCIST memesis anyway you slice it; you are correct that fascism was an italian construct and that mussolini had the worlds first fascist government. The simple fact that Hitler and his brownshirts adopted a different NAME does not mean they had different POLITICS both were far right FASCIST governments. You can find an illuminating article here .

badanov, you clearly know nothing about world politics. I see you have picked up the sort of lazy word creation popular with Bill O'reilly and his ilk 'Eurostan'? Actually in 20 years europe will be at the cutting edge of fuel efficency and design whilst the US will be struggling to catch up (and paying vast amounts due to its dependancy on fossil fuels exaserbated by short sighted greedy government). Economically China will be a vast superpower, rivelling if not out pacing the US.

Ed, your geography must be really off if you are linking articles about slaves in Sudan. Thats like me sending you an artical about terrorists in Chile. Get a map.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 2:09:34 AM||   2004-10-18 2:09:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#57 I'm familiar with the ideas of the free market and they, in princepal, are not awful.

Thank you. Now your problem with a free market economy is...

However, a compassionate society (and, considering only 12% of US citizens consider themselves athiest you should, again in princepal, be the world's most compassionate society) should seek to support its less fortunate citizens in times of trouble.

Spoken like a true Euro-socialist. Mind your own f*cking businss and we will mind ours.

I know America is very fond of its gun toting, 'every man for himself', striding across the plains to make a decent heroic living from the land image (whilst wrapped in a flag presumably; ironically the exact same image communist and fascist dictatorships fed to the masses, odd no?)

I defy you to show me a picure of a cowboy wrapped in an American flag used by ANY dictator in any society since the 1800s.

but a healthy society cannot operate like that.

Been doing it for hundreds of years. Seem to me your societies need to start doing this yourselves. Its starts at home. Leave us alone and we won't bomb your Muslims.

By all means make money, spend it how you like,

Oh thank you Lord Whateveryourname is. I got your perfect permission to do with my money as I see fit. Thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou.

but you are part of society and must pay for its up keep

We call it taxes but we see taxes as a neccesary evil, not as a neccesity.

(if you don't like that go and form your own commune in alaska). On the most selfish level, even if you don't care one jot for your fellow man, it could one day be that you are hurt or fall ill and are no longer able to work and i suspect then you will be grateful for the state assistance you scorn now.

No one scorns state assistance if it is for dire need.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-18 2:10:21 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-10-18 2:10:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#58 You are ashamed, i trust, memesis that your only comeback to that was to point out a spelling mistake?
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 2:10:50 AM||   2004-10-18 2:10:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#59 badanov, you clearly know nothing about world politics. I see you have picked up the sort of lazy word creation popular with Bill O'reilly and his ilk 'Eurostan'?

I don't get my news from TV and not from Bill O'Reilly. I consider O'Reilly and overbearing prick, like you.

I picked up the word Eurostan from another internet source.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-18 2:14:17 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-10-18 2:14:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#60 I defy you to show me a picure of a cowboy wrapped in an American flag used by ANY dictator in any society since the 1800s.

I am not sure if you are being obtuse. I meant that dictatorships tend to use the image of a strong man going out on his own to tame the land in their propaganda. Look at the Nazi's 1930s propaganda on the building of the autobahns or (from around the same time) Stalin's pictures of a strong, chisel jawed man, axe slung over his shoulder, shoulders back, eyes gazing forward, marching off to fell trees on a bright red background. Both could be easily transfered to represent the american ideal.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 2:16:16 AM||   2004-10-18 2:16:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#61 I don't have time to address your drivel. I am not an American, thus will let other respond to it if they feel there is any point in responding to your indoctrinated pinkoid blather.

You claimed that you study at a college level. That is a bit hard to swallow. You repeated the same mistake twice in your post. QED.
Posted by Memesis 2004-10-18 2:19:11 AM||   2004-10-18 2:19:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#62 I think you are being obtuse by stretching images from government propoganda from dictatorial regimes and applying it to an American image of a cowboy.
Posted by badanov  2004-10-18 2:21:15 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-10-18 2:21:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#63 Memesis? QED? I suppose yes a college student would have perfect spelling on a message board. Yes, you caught me. Dead wrong i'm afraid chap, 3rd year History MA at Glasgow University. Don't use thus to make yourself sound intellegent old chap, it's what stupid people do.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 2:25:37 AM||   2004-10-18 2:25:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#64 Aw, how sad - the onanist troll wants a vote, a voice, to be important! Lol! Sadly, for him, it won't happen... for the rest of humankind, a pure blessing. From the rectum of the cloistered faculty's fount of faux knowledge to RB, he strains to leave the sum of his pretentious sense of self-worth. Upon examination, sigh, it's merely more second-hand miracles from a dedicated student of the voyeurs and cowards. A pathetic hand-wringing bystander with a head full of failed ideobabble exercising his class notes / pulling his tiny pud in public. Hurry up and squirt, sonny. Yawn.
Posted by .com 2004-10-18 2:35:15 AM||   2004-10-18 2:35:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#65 Google tells me it's 71%

so as i said, higher than the US? The average wage is around £20,919. Thats roughly $37,712 US? at the current rate of exchange although the average in london is slightly higher $50,332. So, i think you will agree, not exactly church mice. Its true that there are some terrible housing estates, the victims of careless town planning in the 60s i'm afraid, but thats being righted at the moment. The new Swiss Re (or Gherkin) building a case in point having just won the Stirling prize for most outstanding new building on the globe.

Of course there is trouble with anti-social drinking (although this is caused by some fairly byzantine licensing laws being rapidly repealed). I think the idea that britian is beset by drive-bys is a little rich coming from an american (you are the experts at shooting each other by several tens of thousands over the rest of the western world, how many gun deaths did britain have in 2001? around 80? america, around 21,000?. I suggest you come here and see for yourself.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 2:42:51 AM||   2004-10-18 2:42:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#66 the onanist troll wants a vote, a voice, to be important!

You know we have democracy here too? I do have a vote you know? If you are referring to the US elections i have no desire to vote in those. Why should i? it doesn't matter to me who runs your country.

From the rectum of the cloistered faculty's fount of faux knowledge

please please don't rubbish education; doing so rubbishes the whole of civilization. And don't resort to illiteration, its a cheap trick favoured by the tabloid media.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 2:49:29 AM||   2004-10-18 2:49:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#67 WTF I hit submit once. must be some Mozilla bug. disregard my next to last long post.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-10-18 2:50:42 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-10-18 2:50:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#68 al·lit·er·a·tion (Pronunciation Key (-lt-rshn))
n.

The repetition of the same sounds or of the same kinds of sounds at the beginning of words or in stressed syllables, as in “on scrolls of silver snowy sentences” (Hart Crane). Modern alliteration is predominantly consonantal; certain literary traditions, such as Old English verse, also alliterate using vowel sounds.

Fuckwit.
Posted by .com 2004-10-18 2:51:12 AM||   2004-10-18 2:51:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#69  Google tells me it's 71%

so as i said, higher than the US? The average wage is around £20,919. Thats roughly $37,712 US? at the current rate of exchange although the average in london is slightly higher $50,332. So, i think you will agree, not exactly church mice. Its true that there are some terrible housing estates, the victims of careless town planning in the 60s i'm afraid, but thats being righted at the moment. The new Swiss Re (or Gherkin) building a case in point having just won the Stirling prize for most outstanding new building on the globe.

Of course there is trouble with anti-social drinking (although this is caused by some fairly byzantine licensing laws being rapidly repealed). I think the idea that britian is beset by drive-bys is a little rich coming from an american (you are the experts at shooting each other by several tens of thousands over the rest of the western world, how many gun deaths did britain have in 2001? around 80? america, around 21,000?. I suggest you come here and see for yourself.

Top tip Sockpuppet, if you are going to put in a deft quip at the end of your rant try editing your exisiting one rather than reposting the whole thing again. :p
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 2:51:57 AM||   2004-10-18 2:51:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#70 Ah, finding an online dictionary, copying and pasting the definition then the scrawling Fuckwit at the bottom.

Classy.
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 2:53:18 AM||   2004-10-18 2:53:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#71 Well thank you chaps it's been a long time since i've had one of these futile back and forth bitter internet debates. Nobody ever backs down but isn't it fun? Anyway i'm sure your views are valid and i'm probably wrong on some things and blah blah blah, it'll all work out;

cheery-bye
Posted by AthiestSocialist!! 2004-10-18 2:57:56 AM||   2004-10-18 2:57:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#72 In 30 seconds, too. Not bad for an old man who actually knows the world... You're a pretentious, foolish, adolescent knob-shiner who yearns for recognition. Sure, you got it - you're today's Fuckwit of The Day. Congratulations.
Posted by .com 2004-10-18 3:08:04 AM||   2004-10-18 3:08:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#73 Ah, trollus masturbatus... FUBARing a thread beyond repair.

Don't you have a she-troll to frolick with or something?
Posted by Conanista 2004-10-18 3:12:13 AM||   2004-10-18 3:12:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#74 Hey! That's cool, .com.

Had no idea about this prestigious award. It is well deserved. Actually, if there was one rendered in plastic, I would submit that Aris could be a good candidate.
Posted by Conanista 2004-10-18 3:18:55 AM||   2004-10-18 3:18:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#75 .com you mean I missed my

YHBT HANL FOAD chance?

Damm it :þ
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-10-18 3:27:13 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-10-18 3:27:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#76 Lol! Thx, Conan!

SPo'D - I didn't get YHBT - I know YHTBT, heh. So I wasn't totally certain what you were conveying there - so I stayed back to see if he was truly and idiot or someone just having us on. Sigh. He was an idiot.

Um, you aren't saying you wanted the award, are you, lol!
Posted by .com 2004-10-18 3:31:12 AM||   2004-10-18 3:31:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#77 No HELL NO!

YHBT: You Have Been Trolled.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-10-18 3:33:06 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-10-18 3:33:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#78 Lol! Then you should drop a line to these guys so they can update their page!
Posted by .com 2004-10-18 3:36:03 AM||   2004-10-18 3:36:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#79 It's there. YHB___
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-10-18 3:44:40 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-10-18 3:44:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#80 "Um, you aren't saying you wanted the award, are you, lol!"

Well, .com, if I deserved it, I would have to accept it. It is based on merit, as I understand.

Frankly, I have no ambitions in that regard. :-)
Posted by Conanista 2004-10-18 3:52:35 AM||   2004-10-18 3:52:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#81 Lol! It's rarely dusted off and presented - though it could be handed out almost everyday as we do have thread-hijacking-trolls in residence, heh. But that would cheapen it, y'know? We must show discipline and patience, methinks, lol!
Posted by .com 2004-10-18 3:56:59 AM||   2004-10-18 3:56:59 AM|| Front Page Top

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