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2004-10-17 Europe

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Posted by Anonymoose 2004-10-17 8:17:45 PM|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I have actually lodged a protest over this.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-17 1:05:43 AM|| 2004-10-17 1:05:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Good for you TGA.

For me France and Germany show that WW2 didn't reform them. The old Jew hate is still there. What else is new? The Protocols of Zion are available freely in French and German. Anti-jewish and anti-us propaganda is a daily staple in the "news" of EUrope. The very few EUopeans that know what is going on may too few to redeem them. They are even more sheep like than your typical US citizen.

Apparently EUrope thought Bush was only speaking for himself when he said that you are with us or with our foes. EUrope it's time to buy a clue. Their is no middle ground. You can't blame the US for the mess you left in Africa and the middle east in your abandonded colonies. Either you take your responsibilities for them or shut the hell up when we do using our own methods.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-10-17 2:18:41 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-10-17 2:18:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 SPo'D - Plz see my comment #18 on this RB story from yesterday. I believe the notion of writing off 2 countries, especially Germany, is, how should I put it, a bit hasty. In 3 weeks WE could be on our way to being in worse shape, and the return trip will take years, IMHO, so let's take some care. And please take this in the friendly manner meant, bro.

Posted by .com 2004-10-17 2:26:21 AM|| 2004-10-17 2:26:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 SPoD

The "Protocols" are banned in Germany. What you find on amazon.de is a bunch of books exposing them for what they are.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-17 2:26:40 AM|| 2004-10-17 2:26:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 .com Thanks for the flowers, I missed out yesterday :-)

And yes, we might have some interesting discussions should Kerry be president and Stoiber be elected German chancellor.

A bit like Carter and Schmidt. It was Schmidt who hammered it into Carter that NATO needed to respond to the Soviet missiles SS20. I remember those discussions, oh boy.

And Schmidt went against the majoritarian beliefs of Germans back then.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-17 2:30:56 AM|| 2004-10-17 2:30:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 TGA - Oops - got distracted helping a guy online with the file-trading software I play around with. People seem to like my pix and movies, heh.

We may soon be in deep shit, again. Carter. Sigh. Skeery. Hyperventilate. Pass out.

The stakes just keep getting bigger, so we can't really afford to repeat such mistakes, but things are not looking good, poll-wise. I hope there's some large "silent majority" lurking out there ready to vote for Bush.

Posted by .com 2004-10-17 3:09:34 AM|| 2004-10-17 3:09:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 .com weeks before the last German elections all pollsters gave the opposition a comfortable majority win.

You see it was true every time...

Posted by True German Ally 2004-10-17 3:51:59 AM|| 2004-10-17 3:51:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 *fingers crossed - but hitting the ATM for the max amount every day*

Lol!

Posted by .com 2004-10-17 4:06:25 AM|| 2004-10-17 4:06:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 TGA I have been thinking about it and how would writing off Germany and France be bad for the US?
They oppose us at every juncture it appears. The German goverment and the mass of german people would rather be good friends with Iran and Syria than the US. France simply hates the US and it's people for being something France is not. France will oppose if not outright sabotage the US every chance it gets. I am under the impresion that a few Germans like the US. The rest of the Germans hate us thinking we are worse then Hitler or the NAZIs because we support Israel. Germany didn't want to fight the Soviets on German soil if the USSR attacked. We in the US don't want to fight in the US and we have been attacked.

Perhaps it's that I have little access to German news in english. I have to make do with the BBC and AFP. What I read there forms my opinion. What I have read makes me pretty bitter and not too charitable.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-10-17 7:34:28 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-10-17 7:34:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 SPOD, France is definitely angling for an alliance with China. Do we really want to push Germany in with them? Distinguish between Schroeder and the Germans. Sure, plenty of Germans like Schroeder, but that is rapidly descending to some Germans. And plenty of Americans like Kerry. None the less, let's not give Germany up. As Patton said, I don't like to fight for the same piece of ground twice.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-10-17 8:06:23 AM|| 2004-10-17 8:06:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 "As Patton said, I don't like to fight for the same piece of ground twice."

Already done (WWI & WWII), so I would be inclined to give it up. Either they swim when the slam hordes invade, or they sink. Darwin Akbar.

Posted by Memesis 2004-10-17 8:19:30 AM|| 2004-10-17 8:19:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Darwin Akbar, indeed, Memesis. If western civilization does not learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them.

We collectively can get the governments we deserve, but I think of individuals, and especially children suffering and I feel outrage. 3000 people were sacrificed on 9-11. The trauma reaches out to thousands, if not millions more of family, friends, colleagues still bearing the scars. Do we need some more hits to collectively wake us up. I certainly hope not.

I come from a background of preventative maintenance. That is what this country is doing. I see a relatively few doing this. I hope we all on both sides of the pond wake up from sleeping on sentry duty.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-10-17 1:22:56 PM|| 2004-10-17 1:22:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Mrs Davis, Schroeder only said what the German public wanted to hear. The drone of anti-US propaganda against us is pretty steady in the German press it seems. This guy seems to have a good handle on it. I don't think it's us giving up on Germany. I think Germany prefers the French to the US in all things. France has pronounced the US it's foe by it's actions and words. Germany has announced it's support of France. Again I am forced to focus on the thought that "you are with us or against us." I say we start up the factories and start building tanks and planes and a huge military perhaps this will get their attention. We need to get the attention of those who prefer fundi Islam and the nations that export terror and oil over the US of A.

France and China in an alliance? LOL China is looking for markets. The French don't buy anything from China. China wants export markets. The Worm is farting in the wind. China is China's ally.

As for fighting for the same ground twice. NATO is dead. The French block every move to make NATO an effective military alliance. EUrope is building it's own rapid reaction force. Does that sound like Germany and France want NATO to be a functioning organization? I am not for fighting at all. Let Germany and France be over run by their stupidity. If they want to be slaves to islamic masters or some other external threat let them. If they want to continue to throw their economy away on failed socilist nanny statism let them. When they are unable to defend themselves let the wolves eat them. They already lack the ability to effectively project any military forces. We might be able to save the UK but that is looking a poor bet.

Germany and France are no longer our friends. They have made that choice. We didn't force them to. They practiced free will. Cut them loose and be done with them.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-10-17 4:29:56 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-10-17 4:29:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 I may not agree with everything that SPOD has said in this thread, but he is very much on the mark about NATO. France's participation (or lack thereof) has rendered that organization rather useless.

Posted by Crusader 2004-10-17 6:45:57 PM|| 2004-10-17 6:45:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 SPOD,

Let's start with what we agree on. France is an enemy. So is China. I am looking years down the pike. Do we really want them to find that they have more than this in common and enter an active above board alliance? Just because they enter an alliance doesn't mean we will close our markets to either. As LBJ said, better to have them in the tent pissing out than outside pissing in.

As for Germany, they are in a rough patch. Kohl thoroughly botched up reunification. And the demographic problem and the socialist social model are rearing their ugly heads as well, demanding major changes that the Germans are understandibly reluctant to accept. The last time the Germans got in a bind like this they took it out on the Poles and the Jews. At least this time they are picking only verbally on somebody their own size. Germany has been a prety good ally for the last 50 years unlike the French who have ben our enemy every one of those years. We shouldn't walk out on Germany just because they elected a wimp who doesn't know how to lead. After all, we elected Jimmah Cahtah, and if it weren't for Schmidt, Europe might still be looking at SS-20s. So let's show a little patience with the Germans as they work their way through their problems.

As to NATO, I couldn't disagree more. NATO has never been an offensive alliance and we have made a mistake trying to turn it into one. It still has an important function to perform, defending New Europe from external threats. This is best done by keeping Germany active in NATO and drawing Russia in as well so that Central Europe is no longer a doormat for invading powers that wish to go elsewhere.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-10-17 7:25:45 PM|| 2004-10-17 7:25:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I think even as a defensive pact NATO has had it. Only half joking is say Belgium and France would try and block even a denfense if they thought it would make the US look bad.
I am not all that convinced that France wouldn't have nuked Germany (and US troops) to stop a Russian advance. If you think it's just a weak leader in Germany fine. Being of German exraction I don't think so. I think it's the majority of the country feeling like telling the US to get screwed. The former East blames us for their poverty while the former west would rather party with their new found EU friends the French. As the price of Oil goes up look for the blame the USofA crowd to get louder and the French to make the most of it.
Unlike Germany the US is a reliable ally. Ask Israel ask the UK.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-10-17 9:53:22 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-10-17 9:53:22 PM|| Front Page Top

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