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2006-10-16 China-Japan-Koreas

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Posted by Fred 2006-10-16 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 *snicker*

Only a diplodink or MSM tool could possibly buy into this crap. This is just Putty and Lavrov spinning for UNSC cover. Waste of time, IMO, everyone knows the Russia / China game - we've had 3 years of it with Iran.

Posted by .com 2006-10-16 00:33|| 2006-10-16 00:33|| Front Page Top

#2 GUAM K57.com Radio > AUSTRALIAN NEWS [Unconfirmed] > NORTH KOREAN OFFICIAL threatens to missle-strike US bases around the Pacific, including GUAM + HAWAII, iff North Korea is pushed too far. Basically, from Aussie News > Any KOREAN WAR 2 = PACIFIC-WIDE CONFLICT, NOT LIMITED TO ONLY JAPAN-KOREAS or J-K-TAIWAN(???). Without concessions-agreements from Tokyo-Seoul vv going nuklar, North Korea will continue to serve as China's PC, SACRIFICAL PROXIES = CANNON FODDER against the USA-Allies, read NORTH KOREA = KOREANS DIE FIRST BEFORE CHINESE DO. TAIWAN > is important to China becuz China's "normal" littoral shipping lanes can easily be blocked/denied, thus China realistically needs Taiwan as one access [of several in South-SE Asia]to extra-Asia warm-water Pacific ports = trade routes, + steppingstone to those strategic Pacific islands which China hopes to dominate = control one day. THE CHICOMS IDEALLY WANT THE USA OUT OF THE ENTIRE ASIA-PACIFIC IFF THEY COULD HELP IT - CHINA WILL DO LITTLE OR NUTHIN AGZ KIMMIE BECUZ THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT INTRA-NORKIE POLITICS UNLESS CHICOM CONTROL OF NORTH KOREA, REAL ANDOR PERCEIVED [WEST], IS DIRECTLY THREATENED.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2006-10-16 01:27|| 2006-10-16 01:27|| Front Page Top

#3 Fergit to mention that the Norkies also threaten in future to test a HYDROGEN-THERMONUCLEAR BOMB + ADVANCED BC's.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2006-10-16 02:05|| 2006-10-16 02:05|| Front Page Top

#4 Lol - Suprise: WaPo's onboard. Note, however, who wrote the article... disturbing. Glad he's a former and not a current.

Posted by .com 2006-10-16 02:50|| 2006-10-16 02:50|| Front Page Top

#5 China is the puppet master in all this.

I have pondered whether china, which controls NorK, is spoiling for a pre-emptive war for control of the pacific.

NorK won't peep without secret Chinese OK for the move. They are totally dependant. That means whatever Kimmie says, or the Chinese say in public, in private the Chinese have secretly told him it's OK by them.

Look:

In the past year, China was caught with a thousand spies in Australia.

A thousand.

Sounds like science fiction but it was all over our MSM, and they have requirements for backing up those kinda stories with documents and witnesses.

Second: Chinese frigates hanging about our northern borders: one hovered off coast of PNG during recent troubles, only moved off when Aussies sent warship to help contain situation.

Chinese motherships stealing our fish in Timor Sea, hanging just outside maritime boundary, sending in indonesian fishermen to do dirty work, they come back for refueling/cargo unloading to the big mothership then go back for more.

These boats not just about plunder they are also mapping our coastline and that of the south pacific.

China is plundering our fish stocks and our resources. Have come to Australia, and bought up future production of mines for next 30 years and are hungry for more. Are poking about everywhere in this region.

They infiltrated Papua New Guinea: recent riots destroyed the new chinatown and china flew its citizens back to the motherland in a special charter flight.

I'm saying all these things added together indicate probing and mapping.

China knows conflict with the US is inevitable sooner or later over Taiwan and also for leadership and dominance.

Perhaps the time draws near for them to challenge the US for global dominance.

They use the NorKs as their beating stick.

It's a good time: US is occupying Iraq and Afghanistan, thus deploying troops elsewhere...

they could use the NorKs to draw the US into a conflict, stand back and then hit hard right at the worst time and make hay out of it?

THey could have a big imperial sphere of influence...

What do you reckon?

Posted by anon1 2006-10-16 05:05|| 2006-10-16 05:05|| Front Page Top

#6 Thanks for pulling together all those bits into one place, anon1. From occasional rumbles here, it sounds like our Navy is somewhat at loose ends, while the Army, Marines, and somewhat less so the Air Force are going full out. I've absolutely no military expertise beyond what I read here and elsewhere, but my impression is that any hot war we would fight against China would be via over-the-horizon missiles from warships that would break key bits of Chinese infrastructure (dams, ports, railyards, storage depots, power plants, command-and-control), causing the country would come to a standstill pretty quickly. Here in the US 'tis said the cities are a week from starvation, and Chinese city dwellers haven't the size pantries we do.

There is no need for a physical invasion if our aim is to stop aggression rather than conquest.

Please take this with a truckload of salt, though. I am, after all, just a little civilian, suburban housewife with an unreasoning horror of deliberately inflicting pain, and all my reading cannot enable me to have more than a surface understanding of such matters. So I hope those with actual expertise will weigh in on the subject. Thanks, guys!

Posted by trailing wife 2006-10-16 06:46|| 2006-10-16 06:46|| Front Page Top

#7 Color me sceptical on the Chinese "offensive" getting violent in our life time. They can't project power, though they will be happy to cajole and bully thier way over as much of the Pacific as its inhabitants will tolerate. And as the great military theorist Vizzini said, "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." So any armed confrontation will only be ther result of overextension or gross miscalculation.

I'd be more inclined to believe Iran is calling the tune and has laughed in Kimmie's face, refusing to fund the next round of NRE based on his failure to meet his most recent milestone. So Kimmie is just trying to get the west to pay him to do what he has to do anyway.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-10-16 08:07|| 2006-10-16 08:07|| Front Page Top

#8 #4 .com - I didn't read the WaPo article as a step down, but rather as a not so subtle threat:

Passivity in the face of this threat will lead to sharp questions from Congress and the public about the continuing value of the U.S. alliance with South Korea, to say nothing of China's supposed status as a "responsible stakeholder" in the international system.

Absent sufficient cooperation, Washington will have to weigh other risky measures. Among these are a stop-and-search blockade of North Korea's ports, secondary sanctions against companies that continue to trade with it, and aggressive criminal proceedings that could entangle individuals and institutions in other countries, including China, with unforeseeable but potentially far-reaching diplomatic and economic consequences.

Espionage trials, for instance.

Posted by lotp 2006-10-16 08:28|| 2006-10-16 08:28|| Front Page Top

#9 thanks for the thoughts, guys and lovely lady! Or maybe all ladies?

Posted by anon1 2006-10-16 08:56|| 2006-10-16 08:56|| Front Page Top

#10 lotp - Hmmm. Was out having First Breakfast. Will re-read with your comments in mind - Thx.

On its face, i.e. the headline, it's simply a stupid assertion. No how, no way, will Kimmie give up his "International Elevator Shoes" voluntarily - ala Libya, which is what the headline implies. So you might say I went in with a skeptical attitude, lol.

Posted by .com 2006-10-16 09:18|| 2006-10-16 09:18|| Front Page Top

#11 Just you, lotp and I are of the female pursuasion, anon1. The rest (thus far in this thread, I mean) are charmingly male. ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2006-10-16 12:20|| 2006-10-16 12:20|| Front Page Top

#12 GUAM K57.com Radio > AUSTRALIAN NEWS [Unconfirmed] > NORTH KOREAN OFFICIAL threatens to missle-strike US bases around the Pacific, including GUAM + HAWAII, iff North Korea is pushed too far. Basically, from Aussie News

JOE! Damn boy, why not take the time to communicate your thoughts. If you just spit them out incoherently - what's the point?

Posted by anon 2006-10-16 12:39|| 2006-10-16 12:39|| Front Page Top

#13 Lol, anon. JoeM has reached icon status for some. I, however, usually don't find it worthwhile to parse the stuff. Note that he can, when in the mood I guess, write coherently, so I don't "get it" either. :-)

Posted by .com 2006-10-16 12:43|| 2006-10-16 12:43|| Front Page Top

#14 re: Vizzini:

what's the Chinese word for "inconceivable"?

Posted by Querent 2006-10-16 13:04|| 2006-10-16 13:04|| Front Page Top

#15 fleedom? :-)

Posted by .com 2006-10-16 13:07|| 2006-10-16 13:07|| Front Page Top

#16 *rimshot*

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2006-10-16 13:32|| 2006-10-16 13:32|| Front Page Top

#17 Anon1, what you consider probing and mapping I consider another form of Chinese government assisted piracy. They allow pirates to hide in their ports all the time, stealing fish is just another aspect of their games. I believe if the West countered hard the Chinese would quickly distance themselves from that kind of operation but we won't.

Posted by rjschwarz 2006-10-16 18:19|| 2006-10-16 18:19|| Front Page Top

#18 Even if they give up the nukes in the long run(which I don't think will happen), the goal or policy seems to be for them to to reform(which I also have a hard time believing) or collapse.

Question... if the regime fails in NK, is it South Korea or China's playground? Or something homegrown /internal?

Posted by Dunno 2006-10-16 20:39|| 2006-10-16 20:39|| Front Page Top

#19 I consider another form of Chinese government assisted piracy. They allow pirates to hide in their ports all the time

What else does one do with government employees?

Posted by Pappy 2006-10-16 21:21|| 2006-10-16 21:21|| Front Page Top

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