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2007-10-10 Home Front: WoT

Supreme Court Dismisses Lawsuit Against CIA

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Posted by Fred 2007-10-10 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11125 views ] Top
File under: Global Jihad

#1 How does he know it was CIA who captured him - did they show him their CIA badges? Could have been Mossad pretending to be CIA, couldn't it? I would say it could have even been Al Qaeda, thinking he was a spy, except they'd have killed him anyway, even if they figured out he wasn't. Then again, maybe he IS a spy for us, and this is all part of his cover to get him close to bin Laden.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-10-10 07:22|| 2007-10-10 07:22|| Front Page Top

#2 I agree that the Bush Administration can request that this lawsuit be dismissed and that the courts should comply with this request.

I think also that if the Bush Administration declines to explain its actions in its treatment of this person, then the public can fairly judge those actions on the basis of this person's account of what happened.

The publicly available information that I have read indicates to me that the CIA mistreated this person on flimsy grounds. It seems to me that the CIA abducted him to Afghanistan on a hunch and then tried to coerce him into a confession that might prove the hunch. When that failed, the CIA released him.

Maybe the CIA had more than flimsy grounds, more than a hunch. Some people will grant the CIA the benefit of the doubt in this issue.

Some, however, will suppose that the CIA made only foolish and abusive mistakes in this case, and that is a reasonable supposition.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 07:35|| 2007-10-10 07:35|| Front Page Top

#3 How does he know it was CIA who captured him

The US Government has admitted so.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 07:37|| 2007-10-10 07:37|| Front Page Top

#4 I think also that if the Bush Administration declines to explain its actions in its treatment of this person, then the public can fairly judge those actions on the basis of this person's account of what happened.

Um, Mikey? What's the first thing that happens when these guys get near a reporter?

That's right - accuse their captors of torture. It's in the al-Queda handbook; you can look it up.

Posted by Raj 2007-10-10 07:44|| 2007-10-10 07:44|| Front Page Top

#5 Why would the CIA admit they grabbed somebody? Serious question. They routinely deny all sorts of petty stuff every day. It makes me wonder why they admitted this, when it would have been so easy, and seemingly beneficial, to deny. Since I do not believe they have suddenly become an 'open' organization, it must either be due to internal dissent (in serious violation of various security processes, but still possible), or because it was part of some mission.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-10-10 08:13|| 2007-10-10 08:13|| Front Page Top

#6 The AP writeup on this case (front page of today's Akron Leakin' Urinal) was so sympathetic to the poor plaintiff that I half expected the paper itself to burst into tears.

(Not-antiwar-just-on-the-other-side files, example #647)

Posted by Mike 2007-10-10 08:39|| 2007-10-10 08:39|| Front Page Top

#7 Why would the CIA admit they grabbed somebody?

The grabbed guy was a citizen or legal resident of Germany.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 09:52|| 2007-10-10 09:52|| Front Page Top

#8 Personally, I buy this guy's story about as much as I buy Dan Rather's air force documents.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2007-10-10 09:58|| 2007-10-10 09:58|| Front Page Top

#9 "publicly available information" is almost NEVER the full story, is almost always biased by the reporter, and is ALWAYS incomplete and inaccurate for things like this.

Trusting "publicly available" info on covert items is unwise - you end up awfully ignorant of much of the real info, and in the worst cases, you eat spin insstead of facts and become MAL-informed - i.e. one ends up with bad data that is maliciously bad, and one has that as his/her basis for thinking - meaning his/her reasoning will lead even further into error since one is beginning with false premises. And whats worse, the person will be convinced to the rightness of his/her position, but be utterly unable to sustain it if the real facts where known.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-10-10 10:45|| 2007-10-10 10:45|| Front Page Top

#10 The US Government told the German Government that the CIA grabbed this guy and held him for a long time and subjected him to harsh interrogation methods and then released him without any information that Germany could use for a prosecution or even for further investigation.

That information is publicly available. Without some further explanation to the US public, it is reasonable for any member of the public to assume that the CIA acted foolishly and abusively in this case.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 11:18|| 2007-10-10 11:18|| Front Page Top

#11 it is reasonable for any member of the public to assume that the CIA acted foolishly and abusively in this case.
It's not reasonable for anyone to make assumptions based on only part of the information. You wind up making bad assumptions and look like an idjit.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2007-10-10 11:47|| 2007-10-10 11:47|| Front Page Top

#12 Can we put some things together. Days ago it was revealed that the Bush Administration was providing the Donk front runners with intel for Iraq which coincided with the time those same people started to cut back on their rhetoric about 'pulling out now'. If the Bush Administration was willing to share this information with such detractors in the legislative branch and party in opposition, would it not be a reasonable continuation of the concept, that the Administration would share similar information with select members of the judicary, i.e. SCOTUS? We know that 50 years from now, all those close hold papers and communications will eventual get into the hands of historians to see what was going on in this period. The court being particularly an animal in search of 'historical' standing would find itself rather naked if the record did reveal the extent of the danger, their awareness of the danger, and their business as usual approach to the danger. You think they want to get tagged with a 'Dred Scott' title for their tenure?

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-10-10 11:48|| 2007-10-10 11:48|| Front Page Top

#13 So it's not an evil conspiracy, P2K?

Or are you just saying there are other reasonable possibilities?

Posted by Bobby 2007-10-10 12:08|| 2007-10-10 12:08|| Front Page Top

#14 Other reasonable possibilities.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-10-10 12:15|| 2007-10-10 12:15|| Front Page Top

#15 That information is publicly available. Without some further explanation to the US public, it is reasonable for any member of the public to assume that the CIA acted foolishly and abusively in this case.
Posted by Mike Sylwester

Right. Just like Blackwater has public stock... I think KOS is missing it's putty kat.

Any rational American would assume this turd was a Muslim terrorist. Especially since the ACLU was involved. Plus el-Masir is a dirt bag.

On May 17, 2007, El-Masri was arrested on suspicion of arson.

According to Die Welt Online (in German) the problem arose over a dispute over an iPod that El-Masri had bought at a METRO warehouse club store back in April in the city of Neu-Ulm.[31] He claimed the iPod malfunctioned just hours after purchase. When he tried to return it, the store refused, and the situation escalated into a shouting match. El-Masri spit in the face of a female employee, and was barred from the store.

On May 17th, El-Masri kicked in a door of the Metro store and used gasoline to start a fire. The fire caused over 500,000 ($678,000) in damages. Nobody was hurt. El-Masri was arrested near the scene of the crime. After arrest, a judge ordered him held in a psychiatric hospital for unknown reasons. On May 18, El-Masri's attorney, Manfred Gnjidic, conceded his client did burn down the store, but blamed it on his client's torture experiences and claimed that the German government did not provide enough therapy to him after his return from Afghanistan. [32]

German Prosecutors in the arson case also revealed that El-Masri faced charges for allegedly attacking a truck driving instructor. They said Masri lost his temper after the instructor criticised him for failing to attend his lessons.[33]

Posted by Icerigger 2007-10-10 12:58|| 2007-10-10 12:58|| Front Page Top

#16 Icerigger, thanks for the interesting information about El-Masri's argument with the Metro warehouse club about an I-Pod that he bought there.

For you and for many others, such information seems to be significant. Therefore, I too will consider it in my thoughts and prayers.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 14:03|| 2007-10-10 14:03|| Front Page Top

#17 Re #11 (Deacon Blues): It's not reasonable for anyone to make assumptions based on only part of the information.

It is reasonable to withhold judgement, and it also is reasonable to trust in the government's management of the Intelligence Community.

And also it is reasonable to conclude that it seems in retrospect that the Bush Adminisration has made way too many rash, arrogant decisions in its management of the Intelligence Community.

Rarely are such disagreements decisive in national elections, but they might be significant in the presidential election in November 2008. During the past eight years, the Bush Administration has lost much credibility and trust among the public, especially on Intelligence issues such as intelligence estimates, treatment of captives, adherence to established procedures in wiretapping, and so forth.

Because these matters must remain mostly secret, the public can control the government only based on its impressions and perceptions of whether or not the government continues to deserve the public's trust. We can throw the rascals out and give the other party a chance for a while.

Between now and November 2008, it would be a good thing for the country and especially for the Republican Party if the Bush Administration would address the public's concerns frankly. To simply assert that the Bush Administration has not made any mistakes, has not committed some excesses, and does not have to justify any of its actions probably will not cut it on Election Day.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2007-10-10 14:19|| 2007-10-10 14:19|| Front Page Top

#18 Q: How does he know it was CIA who captured him?
A:The US Government has admitted so.

But since we know the government always lies, doesn't the fact that they admit it refute the possibility that they did?

Posted by SteveS 2007-10-10 14:31|| 2007-10-10 14:31|| Front Page Top

#19 The question also arises as to what el Masri was doing in Macedonia. Maybe the CIA had justifiable reason to grab his a$$. Al-Masri seems to be a bit of a bully, and also very arrogant. As for torture, anything done to islamists seems to be rated as torture, whether it's waterboarding, sleep deprivation, or feeding them three squares a day. Not much is said about decapitations, beatings, the use of drills and electric cords, and other attrocities used by muzzie extremists against their perceived enemies, however.

Frankly, I wouldn't trust the CIA to open the door for me, but that's just me. I do believe we have good intelligence from NSA and NISC, and possibly even from DIA. Politics within the CIA make its actions questionable, whether they're directed by the president or not. The number and severity of leaks leave me no choice but to believe they would do anything to destroy GWB, including creating this incident. There needs to be a housecleaning in DC. It's beginning to become inescapable that the beast isn't able to control itself, and people from outside will be the only source of that housecleaning. Unfortunately, no politician is going to be willing to lift a finger, so they will have to be swept out with the rest of the dirt.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2007-10-10 15:16|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2007-10-10 15:16|| Front Page Top

#20 OP:

10-4 on all that. Problem is that there is an entrenched Eastern Establishment Elitist element (=Clinton appointees) in the CIA from 80-90's Ivy League recruitment. There is a known cabal interested in only making Bush looked like the "deranged"one. The FBI and Secret Service know this (that I know) and are concerned enough that it would not suprise me if there is a couple of major arrests soon for sedition and treason regarding all the leaks and compromising our intelligence gathering strictly for political purposes. I also think it was a very strategic move by the Administration to admit complicity in the el-Masri rendition and interrogation in order to get the Supremes to decide on National Security grounds. Precedent setting. Keeps the ball rolling for all the intel guys. No pesky lawyers to worry about. Keep up the good work and ferret out the weasels (double entendre) at the CIA.

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2007-10-10 16:33|| 2007-10-10 16:33|| Front Page Top

#21 Come on damn it. Baby needs shoes. I got $10 sez 70 or higher. Let's juice it up a bit. Come on Nike man, show some heart and lungs, this isn't a sprint. You spun for Daddy now take on THE MAN!

Posted by Kojo (I can get it for you wholesale) 2007-10-10 16:55|| 2007-10-10 16:55|| Front Page Top

#22 it would not suprise me if there is a couple of major arrests soon for sedition and treason regarding all the leaks and compromising our intelligence gathering strictly for political purposes.

That would be lovely, Jack. Or failing before January, 2009, an important early move by the new administration. These days intelligence is too important to be left to political gamers.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-10-10 19:18|| 2007-10-10 19:18|| Front Page Top

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