Article

2005-10-07 -Short Attention Span Theater-

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Clereng Creagum8610 2005-10-07 07:10|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 ""You know you never defeated us on the battlefield" said the American colonel.
The North Vietnamese colonel pondered this remark a moment. "That may be so," he replied, "but it is also irrelevant".
Conversation in Hanoi, April 1975.
- Introduction: Tactical Victory, Strategic Defeat; On Strategy: The Vietnam War in Context, Summers, Col. Harry G., Strategic Studies Institute, US Army War College, Carlisle Barracks, PA, 1981.

Someone is lying. Either weâre winning the battles and casualty figures are dropping, which mean the OPSEC people are out of control in their paranoia, or the senior leadership is lying about our successes and casualties on the battlefield and the OPSEC people are right.

This is a limited war regardless of how many want to nuke the enemy and flatten their cities. Its is a war that is generational. That means it must have the support of the populous. George Bush is the type of leader that doesnât worry about ratings unlike the previous occupier of the office. George Bush leaves in 2008. If the military has not won the war by 2008, the next person in the office is not as likely to support the continuation of the conflict. The Army is going to lose another one because it fails to absorb the dictum that - war is an extension of politics. You can win battles and still lose wars.

The Vietnamese won their war in the streets in the United States. The military refuses to acknowledge that the MSM is shaping the battlefield in the GWOT as any player can in conflicts. The MSM today is at best antagonistic to those conducting the GWOT on our side and at worst is an agent of the enemy, willingly carrying the message of the enemy and defending their practices in the war for the hearts and minds of the American public. The military has failed to effectively wage this portion of the conflict. Now, the one source of informational flow which the MSM does not control between the front line troops and the people back home is being killed by bureaucratic wantabees who need to justify their existence.

There is no perfect. You are going to take casualties regardless when you fight. Each life is valued and each loss is mourned. However, you have to make hard choices. In this case the fear of casualties from potential OPSEC is going to cost the military far more than they comprehend. It will in the end make all the other deaths futile. Cause theyâre going to start losing this war when the man at the top departs and one with lesser fortitude and more concern about his/her popularity takes command. The military has certainly conceded the battlefield to those in the MSM to define it and thus control it. It is a self inflicted wound.

Posted by Shiper Glumble2036 2005-10-07 08:54|| 2005-10-07 08:54|| Front Page Top

#2 Our enemies are the terrorists (and the MSM). There are few journalists in the MSM. For the most part, they are a lazy lot that cares more about a liberal agenda than reporting what is happening. Besides war zones are dangerous places. Why not just write the story from the comfort and safety of the U.S. or other safe places-or how about just "lifting" the story from the blogging network? When all that is too hard, then why not just make up the story as the NY Times does.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-10-07 10:24|| 2005-10-07 10:24|| Front Page Top

#3 If the military has not won the war by 2008, the next person in the office is not as likely to support the continuation of the conflict.

On the contrary.

I agree the election of 2008 will be a referendum on the war. But it is not at all clear that the dove will win. In fact, Nixon defeated McGovern as I recall. Admittedly he was the incumbent and the nest hawk will not be. But the American people understand what is at stake here and the candidate who says we should stay at it till we win will be victorious in the end.

"Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bullshit. Americans love to fight, traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, everyone of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American."

George S. Patton

Posted by Glick Snomose7607 2005-10-07 10:26|| 2005-10-07 10:26|| Front Page Top

#4 On the bright side, since the MSM are playing sucker, the Pentagon and the administration are justified in using sucker punches on them.

Right now, it should be noted that with every crushing success of the US military, its brass become ever more MSM-publically pessimistic. You would think, judging from their crocodile tears, that the insurgents are winning whole sections of the country, the rest devolving into chaos, with thousands of dead and dying lying in the streets.

But the truth keeps leaking out, making the MSM look nervously over their shoulder, fearing that they will again be made to look utterly foolish as when General Schwartzkopf humiliated them in Gulf War I.

And yet, they cannot help themselves. They *want* the US, and Bush, to lose. They *crave* another Vietnam, the false-nostalgic glory days of their youth. You saw it in the face of Dan Rather, his despair when Bush won election and re-election. His gleeful joy unveiling the forged "Bush papers".

But they are just "ink-stained wretches", as they were called long ago, undereducated, ill-informed, biased and emotionally driven. It is no contest when they fight skilled tacticians and strategists, most of whom are far more educated and capable. Individuals whose very lives are at stake, and who still smart from being undermined by a fifth column in that previous war.

Soldiers who relish not only smiting their vicious and cruel enemy, but also their supporters at home. Who understand that war isn't some juvenile political dirty trick, but changes the world for generations and perhaps the course of history itself.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-10-07 11:07|| 2005-10-07 11:07|| Front Page Top

#5 Shiper

I am with you 100% on this one. It is unfortunate that in the past the media and the leadership was in charge of ralling the people and keeping moral and the US determination going. The problem since Vietnam is that the Media is outright Anti-american and at best nuetral, the leadership is either unable or unwilling to rally the people Bush just aint going to do it he believes as long as he keeps the war going in the background the moral dont matter wrong, the Power comes from the people not the top. Either way this is the circumstance the military finds today and Todays Battlefield is a fact that the media front is at least 40% or more of the war. In a democracy you must have the peoples support no matter what the circumstance on the battlefield. Point vietnam we won all battles no support at home we Lost, WW2 lost lots of battles many many mistakes costing thousands of lives good moral strong at home the end We Won. Simple put its all about Heart a big guy with no heart will be punked out by a little guy with lots of heart all day everyday. Todays battlefield in the 4th Gen warefare our military is preparing to fight must have PR wing. The Military must make a real plan on how to hold the support of the homefront. They should limit release of info and only give such through Officers who are sent out like emisaries to speak on the many news and talking heads shows. CNN should have to have a Officer on TV to get any tatical info on whats going on in todays or yesterdays operations. No more briefing the public never see and then watered down versions of nit picked info being released by the media to fit thier agenda. The Military should hire if nessecary advertising people to run commercials, movie shorts, and such on the war. People love the History channel military made documentories of battle A with (bring back the old military photo movie writers to do battlefield stuff from a military perspective they did in WW2 and before) these shorts would show the military prespective with some gun camera footage and comentary from a military journalist that knows what the f*ck is actually going on. The other day I saw a short on CNN it was just random shots of americans blowing stuff up a soldgier running around asking holering were the machine gun fire coming from then a shot of a tank blowing a building up with civilians running out dirt all over choas no perspective of what the hell is going on and of course then twice the footage of the reporter talking about herself and the fear and life risk the chaos, WTF not to mention the distortion of what happened but who was it about the war or the reporter?? The military must do and spend whatever it takes buy commercial spots buy time slots for movies hell make movies and give em to the tv stations to run uncut, to make these PR groups commercials showing what ifs we lose would be good pictures of Iraqis saying they need our help some good PR commericals and shorts and Reps full dress Officers giving the military side of things. If the military cant or wont do this they will never win another 4gen war ever. Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, the list will continue to grow and grow until someone brass wakes up. The F-22 future warfigher and everything else is useless if we cant hold the hearts and minds and keep moral high at the homefront. Nobody will do it but the military, it is the brasses job to recognize todays battlefield and deal with it. Just like when the machine gun came in the generals that didnt understand the old mass formation charges were gone were useless. The Media front is real our enemies see it and are using it to great advantage our military are not even showing up to the freekin battle. I watch these recruiting commercials and wonder why arnt they showing maybe planes crashing into the towers we must win rally the freekin people I know in the past their was shorts before movies and on tv and radio all the time supporting the war showing the Jap Octupus reaching out around the Pacific the HUNs the who the enemy were, where are these rally shorts today??? We need a 4gen warefare media warefare division immediatley. this war is a amazing sucess the fact we have invaded concurred and occupied 2 nations with hostile populations with barely 2000 lost soldgiers is unthinkable unbeleivable. We lost 3000 civilians on 9-11 for gods sake. If we cant hold moral on this war we are done, WW2 today we would have surrendered before the end of the first year. Its the militaries job to adjust to whatever tommorow or todays battlefield requires, Todays battlefield must have a Media front without such it is useless. War is ugly, war is brutal, war is horrible, people die on both side, war will never be bloodless never clean never perfect all of the armour and high tech will not change that ever.And if we cant keep the moral at home all of this is stuff useless props.

I understand the brasses fear of letting regular soldgiers try to take this onto thier soldgiers and report on things. It is bound by accident or otherwise to turn out bad with intelligence slipping to our enemy. But I also understand these soldgiers trying all they can to try to do what the brass wont do recognize todays battle field 4th gen warefare has a big Media front that needs some military showing up for the fight, enemy is already thier entrenched and they are winning 40% or more of this battle by being thier.

Posted by C-Low 2005-10-07 14:26|| 2005-10-07 14:26|| Front Page Top

#6 It shouldnât be a surprise the DoD is clamping down on unfiltered information emanating from within its own ranks. The war of perception has had more adversaries then on the battlefield itself. The DoD has been behind the eight-ball since the fall of Baghdad. Initially, during the invasion, independent journalists were given the opportunity to become imbedded reporters. For all the criticisms it truly was a win-win solution. For the first time the press had access to real time battlefield action. And the military controlled the prism through which the action was viewed. Most important was that the press had a genuine stake in the coalition success. Since the start of the occupation the press has reverted back to its zero sum approach. The military has had modest, at best, success in overcoming the predictable political bias. And in the end the Jessica Lynch saga wasnât pretty. They must understand the complexities that breed âstructuralâ limitations within the press. Until then they will always be playing catch up. In a world where most stories are framed as a conflict, the âDog that didnât barkâ isnât going to get much airtime.

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-10-07 16:47|| 2005-10-07 16:47|| Front Page Top

Someone is lying. Either weâre winning the battles and casualty figures are dropping, which mean the OPSEC people are out of control in their paranoia, or the senior leadership is lying about our successes and casualties on the battlefield and the OPSEC people are right.

I think this is a false dichotomy. Even if casualties are light at the moment and all the battles are being won the military still has an interest in maintaining operational security regarding information in the theater of operations.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-10-07 22:50|| 2005-10-07 22:50|| Front Page Top

#8 Furthermore, a lot of the military blogs are off the radar of the general public, as it's only the political junkies (at least in the United States) who are reading these things as an alternative to the MSM. To a large extent it's not changing people's minds, but rather preaching to the choir.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-10-07 22:59|| 2005-10-07 22:59|| Front Page Top

23:59 RWV
23:23 jules 2
23:21 Redneck Jim
22:59 Phil Fraering
22:55 Bobby
22:50 Phil Fraering
22:48 Charles
22:37 Dawg
22:36 3dc
22:20 Red Dog
22:13 Red Dog
21:40 Shipman
21:40 CrazyFool
21:34 Shipman
21:32 Shipman
21:30 Shipman
21:28 Shipman
21:26 Shipman
21:22 Shipman
21:19 abu Stretch Wear
21:14 Shipman
21:11 Shipman
21:02 trailing wife
21:00 trailing wife